Alberta coal mines might not be Canadian owned.

[Red Bullets]

So if we are going to be coal mining shouldn't we at least keep the mines owned and run by Canadians?

IMO only, if we are going to mine coal Albertan's should control and develop our resources. Not some foreigner.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...X7FD9MJXHwPAAU

[bezzola]

That will never happen they will threaten to pull out and we will bow down to them

[Grizzly Adams]

In the early days, Alberta oil companies went to Eastern financial institutions, about all British, for backing. They weren't interested, so guess who exploited our energy resources ?


Grizz

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

In the early days, Alberta oil companies went to Eastern financial institutions, about all British, for backing. They weren't interested, so guess who exploited our energy resources ?


Grizz

Between what the Liberals (nationally), the last NDP Provincial Gov’t and the economy in general I highly doubt that their are any Canadian companies with the money needed to do this.
At least Australia isn’t China.

[beansgunsghandi]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

So if we are going to be coal mining shouldn't we at least keep the mines owned and run by Canadians?

IMO only, if we are going to mine coal Albertan's should control and develop our resources. Not some foreigner.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...X7FD9MJXHwPAAU

Norway did this with their energy. I sure wish we'd do this with our energy, forestry and other resources also. The amount of wealth that's gone out our provincial and national borders is mind-boggling.

[CNP]

Who cares who owns the mine? It's still Alberta coal and it's coking coal. The world needs coking coal to make steel and will for the foreseeable future. Coking coal is more valuable than thermal coal and if you don't know the difference between coking coal and thermal coal educate yourself. This mine has a past in the Crowsnest Pass area when it operated decades ago. So an Australian company wants to open it again. I live in the area and I am not opposed, there are however differing opinions and that is how it should be. The golf course renovation is spectacular. It's true, the company has poured millions into the local economy.

This quote from the link is laughable:

The proposal for Grassy Mountain predates that change. But Alberta's move is at odds with Liberal Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's effort to wean the country from coal and comes as a growing number of banks, insurers and investors shun the fossil fuel due to climate concerns.

Coking coal is necessary to make steel. You can't wean the country or the world from coking coal. Being at odds with JT is just saying your from Alberta.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by CNP

Who cares who owns the mine? It's still Alberta coal and it's coking coal. The world needs coking coal to make steel and will for the foreseeable future. Coking coal is more valuable than thermal coal and if you don't know the difference between coking coal and thermal coal educate yourself. This mine has a past in the Crowsnest Pass area when it operated decades ago. So an Australian company wants to open it again. I live in the area and I am not opposed, there are however differing opinions and that is how it should be. The golf course renovation is spectacular. It's true, the company has poured millions into the local economy.

This quote from the link is laughable:


Coking coal is necessary to make steel. You can't wean the country or the world from coking coal. Being at odds with JT is just saying your from Alberta.

Alberta coal should be developed by Albertans. Alberta keeps making the mistake of letting our resource money be controlled by foreign companies. And then they quit and leave when we want our share. Just like the oil royalties. When Alberta was going to raise the royalty rates foreign companies started pulling out.

If we kept developing our resources ourselves we would have millions to pour into local economies. The billions that Kenney gave away recently to foreign companies would have poured millions into local economies too. Those billions would have been better used to develop coal or other resources.

[CNP]

Our share has already been established. There are no Alberta companies being shut out as this was not a takeover over, not a buy out, nor interest from any Alberta company. It's an old shutdown mining area being invested into once more. Nothing would be going on there without foreign investment. I'm not opposed to it and I don't take offence to anyone who is

[MyAlberta]

An interesting read regarding Sask potash going private.
http://fcpp.org/wp-content/uploads/P...tashSK_CF1.pdf

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

So if we are going to be coal mining shouldn't we at least keep the mines owned and run by Canadians?

IMO only, if we are going to mine coal Albertan's should control and develop our resources. Not some foreigner.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...X7FD9MJXHwPAAU

Why do you hate capitalism?

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by bezzola

That will never happen they will threaten to pull out and we will bow down to them

Kenney and the UCP already have.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

So if we are going to be coal mining shouldn't we at least keep the mines owned and run by Canadians?

IMO only, if we are going to mine coal Albertan's should control and develop our resources. Not some foreigner.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...X7FD9MJXHwPAAU

Sure. Sounds great. Get some financial backers and start a Canadian owned mine that pays Canadian employees, pays Canadian taxes and pays Alberta resource royalties.

No seriously...we want investment in Alberta. Ensure mitigation of environmental impacts and then start digging.

Happy to see this Australian company has confidence in Alberta with eastern provinces attacking us.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

In the early days, Alberta oil companies went to Eastern financial institutions, about all British, for backing. They weren't interested, so guess who exploited our energy resources ?


Grizz

And who has exploited Albertans resources the worst?

Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia who have reaped billions in transfer payments and no refusing to support those that paid them. In fact drove over our broken bodies while laughing at oil companies demise.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Why do you hate capitalism?

Nothing wrong with Capitalism, till it makes us lose control of what is ours.

Grizz

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Why do you hate capitalism?

Greed is the demise of us as a society. Look where we are at. Very sad when people think their worth is in their possessions.

[jednastka]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

So if we are going to be coal mining shouldn't we at least keep the mines owned and run by Canadians?

IMO only, if we are going to mine coal Albertan's should control and develop our resources. Not some foreigner.

First, very, very few large public companies listed on Canadian stock exchanges with head offices in Canada are even 50% owned by Canadians. Stock ownership is worldwide.


Second, the rules for operation in Canada do not differ at all between "Canadian" companies and foreign companies.


Third, the taxes paid by those companies to municipal, county, and provincial coffers are no different between the two. Remember that the biggest tax paid is the employee income tax. On the federal side, regardless where the jurisdiction lies, larger companies take full advantage of all tax laws and virtually pay no federal tax.



Fourth, independent of where the company calls home, it will employ the same number of Canadians and Albertans.


Fifth, if we really restricted ownership and development of Canadian resources to "Canadian" companies, the development simply would not happen as quickly, reducing employment opportunities.



So in the end, what is the benefit??


Vic

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jednastka

On the federal side, regardless where the jurisdiction lies, larger companies take full advantage of all tax laws and virtually pay no federal tax.
Vic

Agreed with everything but this.

The 2011-2016 audited financial statements of all large Canadian corporations (those worth more than $2 billion) reveal they paid an average of 17.7 per cent tax. During that time, the average official corporate tax rate in Canada for this group of companies was 26.6 per cent.Dec 14, 2017
https://projects.thestar.com › canada...
Canada's Corporations pay less tax than you think | Toronto Star

Simple search found this.

Large corporations pay taxes. They also have lots of deductions in the course of business. Maybe some deductions are unnecessary but we don’t have those details.

Still...they did pay taxes. They did employee many many Canadians who paid taxes and spend money at businesses that paid taxes. It is a cycle but saying paying virtually no taxes is false.

Cheers

Sun

[NinjaHunter]

Tax the rich~! Tax the rich to pay for our welfare. Doesn't matter if it will eventually force companies to leave Alberta. But tax the rich

Oh man... I love this country and this province.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

So if we are going to be coal mining shouldn't we at least keep the mines owned and run by Canadians?

IMO only, if we are going to mine coal Albertan's should control and develop our resources. Not some foreigner.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...X7FD9MJXHwPAAU

Is your posting of this kind of nonsense intentional, kind of like the TD thread, just a way to generate some useless noise, or do you really not understand?

Explain to us just how an Albertan owning this coal mine would be any different in any way from Australian ownership. Environmental approval process exactly the same, rules and regulations for development, exactly the same, rules for ongoing operation, exactly the same, workers hired to work there, exactly the same, taxes and Royalties paid, exactly the same. Access to capital to actually do this, not a snowball's chance in hell you can raise that in Canada. If the government owns and operates it, will be a cluster for sure.

So please, enlighten us as to how Alberta ownership is in any way superior.

[huntsfurfish]

Unlike BC, the rocky mountains in Alberta amounts to only 7.5% of Alberta. Which makes those areas special, at least to me(probably alot of others too).

Should leave the mountain areas alone, we have so little of it as it is!

[jednastka]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Agreed with everything but this.

The 2011-2016 audited financial statements of all large Canadian corporations (those worth more than $2 billion) reveal they paid an average of 17.7 per cent tax. During that time, the average official corporate tax rate in Canada for this group of companies was 26.6 per cent.Dec 14, 2017
https://projects.thestar.com › canada...
Canada's Corporations pay less tax than you think | Toronto Star

Simple search found this.

You are correct, but that dollar value has significantly dropped for these companies, in favour of taxing Canadians directly. The same article you quote:



https://projects.thestar.com/canadas...han-you-think/


starts with:


Sixty-five years ago, people and corporations contributed equal amounts of income tax to the Canadian government. Since then, the scales have tipped in the corporations’ favour. Corporate taxes have been slashed and people have been forced to make up the difference. In 2015/16 — the most recent statistics available — Canadians paid $145 billion in (federal) income tax, while corporations paid $41 billion.


The overall point of the original post was that there is little difference between foreign and Canadian companies. In fact, depending on the business structure, foreign companies can land up paying more in tax.



I have personally worked for three of this type of large company, and only when the market price for their products was highly unstable did they land up paying any federal tax at all. In fact, one company gave each of its employees (me included) a sudden $1500 cheque for "outstanding performance" in the last month before fiscal year-end to avoid paying tax that year.


Vic

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jednastka

You are correct, but that dollar value has significantly dropped for these companies, in favour of taxing Canadians directly. The same article you quote:



https://projects.thestar.com/canadas...han-you-think/


starts with:


Sixty-five years ago, people and corporations contributed equal amounts of income tax to the Canadian government. Since then, the scales have tipped in the corporations’ favour. Corporate taxes have been slashed and people have been forced to make up the difference. In 2015/16 — the most recent statistics available — Canadians paid $145 billion in (federal) income tax, while corporations paid $41 billion.


The overall point of the original post was that there is little difference between foreign and Canadian companies. In fact, depending on the business structure, foreign companies can land up paying more in tax.



I have personally worked for three of this type of large company, and only when the market price for their products was highly unstable did they land up paying any federal tax at all. In fact, one company gave each of its employees (me included) a sudden $1500 cheque for "outstanding performance" in the last month before fiscal year-end to avoid paying tax that year.


Vic

And then one can look into why there were more tax deductions. Often it is staff salaries, increased costs, loans to grown business, write downs due to changing technology and commodity prices.

Can’t say at all if it is fair or not. It is even company specific. With the exception of offshore tax shelters that many liberal run companies use.

Profit margins are also lower lately.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by jednastka

First, very, very few large public companies listed on Canadian stock exchanges with head offices in Canada are even 50% owned by Canadians. Stock ownership is worldwide.


Second, the rules for operation in Canada do not differ at all between "Canadian" companies and foreign companies.


Third, the taxes paid by those companies to municipal, county, and provincial coffers are no different between the two. Remember that the biggest tax paid is the employee income tax. On the federal side, regardless where the jurisdiction lies, larger companies take full advantage of all tax laws and virtually pay no federal tax.



Fourth, independent of where the company calls home, it will employ the same number of Canadians and Albertans.


Fifth, if we really restricted ownership and development of Canadian resources to "Canadian" companies, the development simply would not happen as quickly, reducing employment opportunities.



So in the end, what is the benefit??


Vic

All excellent points.

You can incorporate a "Canadian Company", put a head office in Calgary, put a Canadian in charge, and have 90%+ of the shares owned by foreign investors. That's the point here.

Nothing really changes here ….. nothing ……… except we do get to enjoy jobs, and development and the economic benefits as Albertans.

I find it mind boggling how many "staunch hardcore conservatives" act like free trade, capitalism is BAD and government controlled, liberal protectionism of industry is GOOD.

It's like they don't even know which team they "think" they are on - omg - lol.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Unlike BC, the rocky mountains in Alberta amounts to only 7.5% of Alberta. Which makes those areas special, at least to me(probably alot of others too).

Should leave the mountain areas alone, we have so little of it as it is!

100% agreed ……..

We don't need to drill, clear, develop and destroy everything we have in the name of economic development and industrialization.

After all, where we all gonna go with our lifted hemi dodge rams, quads and trailers we are all financing over 40 years …………

only in 'Berta would we seem to ignore the fact that there are still things that must be off limits to development, and need to be preserved for the future generations.