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  #61  
Old 08-14-2020, 12:22 PM
Redneck 7 Redneck 7 is offline
 
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Maybe they'll have a budget now to actually fix the horrible roads and highways in the county’s.
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  #62  
Old 08-14-2020, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dynamic View Post
I personally find it ironic that the people who voted the most "pro UPC" are gonna be affected the most, and not in a good way. I'm conflicted as to whether I feel sorry for those who are going to be affected or just realize that these life long conservative voters need a hard learned lesson.

You should NOT decide who you are voting by what the politicians are saying during the election campaign but by rather what the party stands for. How do you go up to that ballot box not knowing that this government would try to offload costs to cities and municipalities? How could you NOT draw the conclusion that he was going to try to make it easy as possible for oil & gas? Kenny made it pretty clear during his campaign he was going to bat for the oil & gas industry did he not. Too many people decided not to figure out what the eventual outcome would be for voting UPC. Now everyone is shocked to find out that their taxes are might have to have to be hiked or face huge service reductions. A little bit of research (sharing Facebook memes or putting dumb stickers on your truck does NOT count as research) goes a long ways but it takes effort so people just go to the ballot box essentially blind and vote for the politician they like the best. For good or bad, you get the government you deserve.

I also find it ironic that this government that claims to be conservative and embrace conservative values are trying to prop up and industry that has burned through an extraordinary amount of money and are now in dire straights. I consider myself fiscally conservative and I am because I realize there are good times and there are bad times. I have a rainy day fund to help me when things go bad. Perhaps these oil companies that are now in trouble should of better managed their money. It was absolutley crazy there for a couple years with the money being thrown around. I have friends who told me the stories and to me t sounded like the entire industry was on a coke bender living the high life. Maybe just perhaps of saved a little for when things are not so good. Just a thought? Conservative is not just a word you through around when it is convenient. To me it looks like oil companies like the word conservative but in reality they are far from it.

Now for the other side of the argument....I lived in a rural municipality for many years and now live in a town. I will honestly admit my taxes were laughably low when I lived in the municipality. When I moved to town my taxes increased 400%. Perhaps a increase is needed in rural municipalities and maybe a look at spending is needed in town where I live to bring the number together.
You don’t have a good honest view of the facts.

Companies of the last 10 years are not the same as 30 years ago. Tons more accountability to the bottom line.

In a hot industry as the profits rise the staffing, contractor, service company and materials cost increase. When the market turns those areas get hit in reverse.

Interesting you say you are fiscally conservative however don’t understand the UPC are working to reign in costs. Part of that is pushing accountability down to the hardest spenders to have them look closely as what they need to prioritize spending on.

This reduction of wasteful spending only comes when prodded and the socialist municipalities often push back hard and shout blame blame blame to deflect from their incompetence.

Case in point...Calgary’s excessive spending for years and extremely low staff productivity in many sectors.

Anyone who voted UPC knew fully well some cost reductions were coming. We need to stay within our means and not chock ourselves to death on continued NDP debt and taxes.
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  #63  
Old 08-14-2020, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
You don’t have a good honest view of the facts.

Companies of the last 10 years are not the same as 30 years ago. Tons more accountability to the bottom line.

In a hot industry as the profits rise the staffing, contractor, service company and materials cost increase. When the market turns those areas get hit in reverse.

Interesting you say you are fiscally conservative however don’t understand the UPC are working to reign in costs. Part of that is pushing accountability down to the hardest spenders to have them look closely as what they need to prioritize spending on.

This reduction of wasteful spending only comes when prodded and the socialist municipalities often push back hard and shout blame blame blame to deflect from their incompetence.

Case in point...Calgary’s excessive spending for years and extremely low staff productivity in many sectors.

Anyone who voted UPC knew fully well some cost reductions were coming. We need to stay within our means and not chock ourselves to death on continued NDP debt and taxes.

Well said. I have many times posted that the Provincial Gov needs to find a way to reign in the out of control spending at the Municipal level. This isn't quite what I expected but it wiil help.


Here is a previous post on Counties spending way too much money.


Quote:
This is what I sent to the Mayor and Council about 4 weeks ago.

Quote:



In 2013 municipal taxes were $31 million, total Revenue for the County was $54.6 million. The annual Surplus was $12.7 million with an accumulated surplus of $208.1 million.

In 2019 net municipal taxes were budgeted to be $80.4 million, so 2.6 times what they were only 6 years ago. Taxes actually came in at $50.3 million due to delays at the refinery and a few other deferred revenues but even at that actual received tax revenue is 1.6 times greater than it was in 2013. Total Revenue for the County was budgeted at $102 million, more than double 2013, and came in at $86.2 million for the same reason. The budget had anticipated an annual surplus of $40 million and the actual came in at $21.3, similar to the previous year’s surplus of $24.7 million producing an accumulated surplus of $302.7 million. So even with the delay in receiving tax money from commercial developments the County is generating a significant annual surplus that will only get larger as those tax revenues come on stream.

At what point does the Council come to the conclusion that not only should residential property taxes not increase, but that it is actually time for a decrease in the Residential rates? The County will have almost 100% of the residential tax take as a surplus. These surpluses seem to be spent on an ever growing list of Capital expenditures and there appears to be no end of a willingness to find new capital projects to spend money on. The population of the County in 2013 was 21,000, according to the Alberta Government site, and according to the 2019 Detailed Census results the population has actually decreased to 20,506 so population growth plays no part in explaining this rapid ramp up in spending nor does inflation.

While I am fully in agreement with running a balanced budget, and that a certain level of capital expenditure is obviously required I am curious as to the grand plans underway that would necessitate running a $55 million dollar a year surplus, which is more than the total operating and capital budget only 6 years ago, to predominantly fund capital projects. Can you enlighten me and the other residents as to the rational for these massive increases in spending that are fully consuming very large increases in revenues. Thanks.
\
Here is the double speak baffle gab response I got back from the Mayor. Unless residents start fighting back and tossing out idiots that vote for endless spending your are right, we won't be able to afford to live in our own houses.

Quote:The Mayors Bafflegab response. Pretty much all a convenient bend of the truth.


I did vote in favour of the 0%, I was not in favour of the .05% reduction. The 1.18% increase was to offset the new Police Funding model we now have to pay $586,497. into. We still do need to make the payment, we are just not directly funding it through a tax increase. Keep in mind, this funding model will have us paying increasingly over the next 3 years until we are up to $1,760,751 by 2023. If you follow Council closely, you will know that I have always advocated to be sure we get spending under control and find efficiencies where we can, increasing taxes to find more money is not where you start. Sturgeon Tax rates are very competitive in comparison to our neighbours and in comparison to other rural municipalities. Our past 0% increases have been a point that has created issues with our neighbouring municipalities that feel we should be increasing our taxes every year, and paying more to them for our residents using their facilities and driving on their roads. I will also mention that the provincial government is currently considering changes to the non-residential tax rates, by accelerating the depreciation scale of Machinery & Equipment Assessment. This could effectively remove 30% of our non-residential revenue and would have impacts to our tax rates and our service levels.

There are several costs associated with municipalities that have grown since 2013. Provincial downloading of several expenses, like policing is just one of them. Membership fees and administrative capacity required at the Edmonton Metro Regional Board, Provincially mandated Intermunicipal Collaborative Frameworks and Intermunicipal Development Plans, Annexation negotiations, declining Municipal Sustainability Initiative funding, aging infrastructure that required increased maintenance or capital cost rebuilds. I trust you have looked through the budget and the lists of projects. There are several neighbourhoods within the county that do wish to see capital investments to improve their quality of life, increase safety and perhaps encourage investment and increase job opportunities. Council needs to consider the opinions of all.

As you know, surpluses in budgets are to go to reserves to pay for items that we know will eventually need replacing or large expenditures that may not be suitable to borrow funds for. We have recently completed a Drainage Master Plan that will require millions of dollars over the coming years to manage runoff and water flow through and around the county. This is necessary to protect homes, infrastructure like roads and also productive agriculture land. Previous budgets left no room for this important and costly work. Bridges and culverts have been inventoried, condition rated and monitored, and necessary replacements planned. These bridges used to be the property of the province, but it was infrastructure that was 'given' to the municipalities by the province (I believe approx. 10 years ago) so we are now responsible to maintain and replace it as needed.

We had also undertaken an organizational review and restructuring in 2018/19 to be sure we are running processes and procedures in the most effective way possible. It is important to modernize an organization and be sure it is the right size with the right tools, before any consideration of new buildings are undertaken. We have reduced our staffing by almost 7%, before Covid-19 and brought the pay-scale into the 65% of comparitor's and not the 75% it had been for years previous. We are developing a Procurement and Contract Management position which has not been previously done and is extremely important to monitor expenditures and assure value in contracts. and If there is any silver lining to Covid, it has been the expedited switch to having people work remotely. As we assess our business resumption, we will be giving serious consideration to just how many people will actually return to an office and who is capable and productive at home.

The massive increases to capital spending that you are concerned about are, to a degree, a catch up of spending that was not undertaken for the past 5+ years as the organization was anticipating significant tax revenues that have not yet arrived. We have a Significant Revenue Growth Policy http://www.sturgeoncounty.ca/Portals...wth-Policy.pdf that speaks to the rational of how to spend the revenue when it arrives. If you have specific concerns, or further questions, please contact me or Cllr. Derouin and we would be happy to go over them with you.

Alanna Hnatiw
Mayor
Sturgeon County
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  #64  
Old 08-14-2020, 12:49 PM
cody j cody j is offline
 
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From what I can see some MDs have been living in a fantasy world, used to lots of revenue from taxing oil companies with no real accountability on how they spend it, just spending for the sake of spending. What’s the saying - the beurocracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding beaurocracy. Some mds that get over 80 percent of their revenue from oil taxes could never tax people high enough to replace those funds if they lost them, some extensive cuts would be needed
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  #65  
Old 08-14-2020, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CMichaud View Post
or....

difficulty with moving our product, combined with aggressive anti-oil propaganda have depressed the price of oil and resulted in companies looking at pulling out of Alberta. To attempt to address this, the government is looking at reducing the taxes they pay to make remaining in Alberta more attractive.

If nothing is done it is quite possible these companies will simply leave causing a loss of jobs and any potential revenue.

Counties which have traditionally been supported by these tax revenues now fear they will have to reduce services or increase taxes.

Projected increases/reductions are uncertain and subject to hyper-ventilation and fear mongering.
Here's the problem as I see it though... From what I understand, this plan/idea doesn't hold the oil & gas companies to any guarantee to keep operations in Alberta or keep staff employed. Essentially, the government is allowing these companies to cut their costs without making sure the revenues stay in Alberta.

So you combine this increased cost to rural Alberta, plus the increased cost to Towns/MDs/Countys for new RCMP funding model, plus awful crops due to either drought or too much moisture, plus terrible grain prices, plus the federal carbon tax... what we're going to be left with in rural Alberta is huge corporate farms or just the Hutterite colonies because nobody will be able to afford to farm anymore. The push to urbanization will slowly be complete...

If this change to the oil and gas assessment model is truly being done for the greater good of Alberta, then why is it only rural Alberta picking up the tab? Rural Alberta isn't even home to oil & gas employees anymore (hardly anyways), let alone oil & gas office operations. Keeping these companies around is for the betterment of urban Alberta too as that's where all/most of the employees live and that's were the office operations are stationed. Maybe some of the urban centre's should be footing some of the bill of this provincial government gift too.

EDIT: I will add... There is no question a spending correction is due for MDs and County's. But will some of these municipalities looking at 400% reduction in revenue, how are you supposed to cut spending that much? Fold up shop and dissolve?
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  #66  
Old 08-14-2020, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Your memory is terrible.

I live within my means. If life deals a setback you adjust down your living expenses. I see the NDP mantra of just tax the gap fails history. It doesn’t work.

Oil companies never made excessive profits. If they did and you believed it...why didn’t you invest?
As do I. If I cant afford I dont.

I work for a living, investing to me is gambling. I have never invested in anything, but I have always worked.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #67  
Old 08-14-2020, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
As do I. If I cant afford I dont.

I work for a living, investing to me is gambling. I have never invested in anything, but I have always worked.
Your personal choice to not own growth RRSP’s. People that do...also work.

Buying property is a gamble.

Putting your money in a sock is a gamble and also loses value over time.
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  #68  
Old 08-14-2020, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
You don’t have a good honest view of the facts.

Companies of the last 10 years are not the same as 30 years ago. Tons more accountability to the bottom line.

In a hot industry as the profits rise the staffing, contractor, service company and materials cost increase. When the market turns those areas get hit in reverse.

Interesting you say you are fiscally conservative however don’t understand the UPC are working to reign in costs. Part of that is pushing accountability down to the hardest spenders to have them look closely as what they need to prioritize spending on.

This reduction of wasteful spending only comes when prodded and the socialist municipalities often push back hard and shout blame blame blame to deflect from their incompetence.

Case in point...Calgary’s excessive spending for years and extremely low staff productivity in many sectors.

Anyone who voted UPC knew fully well some cost reductions were coming. We need to stay within our means and not chock ourselves to death on continued NDP debt and taxes.
On my phone so I can’t reply in detail but I understand the need to control spending. That should be a given and automatic. The assumption that all municipalities and cities are bad at managing money is just not true. The UPC are gonna push that narrative until the cows come home. I’m not saying there aren’t savings to be had because I know there is.

And the weird fetish this forum has with the word “socialist” is out of touch. I know there is a few teachers on this board so I’m going to propose a just for AO class on socialism and what it actually is. Because I have a feeling it is a word the UPC and many people throw out with no actual clue as to what it means. Even if the city of Calgary is in fact bad at managing money it does not mean it is a socialist city. It means they are bad at managing money. We need to stop making that link because all it does is create another generation of people who do not know the difference.
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  #69  
Old 08-14-2020, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Your personal choice to not own growth RRSP’s. People that do...also work.

Buying property is a gamble.

Putting your money in a sock is a gamble and also loses value over time.
Jesus Christ man, do you have to belittle every single thing a guy does???

You were talking about investing in oil companies, now you are onto RRSP's?

Absolutely everything that you disagree with is wrong?

Wrong wrong wrong, everyone else is wrong.

Wow.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #70  
Old 08-14-2020, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dynamic View Post
And the weird fetish this forum has with the word “socialist” is out of touch. I know there is a few teachers on this board so I’m going to propose a just for AO class on socialism and what it actually is. Because I have a feeling it is a word the UPC and many people throw out with no actual clue as to what it means. Even if the city of Calgary is in fact bad at managing money it does not mean it is a socialist city. It means they are bad at managing money. We need to stop making that link because all it does is create another generation of people who do not know the difference.
You have a short memory. Several current members on our city council are on the record as stating your money actually belongs to the city. They, and their well-meaning progressive (see: socialist) ideas are better suited to spend your money than you are. Seeing as how you'd probably just waste it on something that isn't one of their pet projects.

On average, I agree that Calgary is not a socialist city, but we seem to have an inordinate amount of socialist ideologues in power. With a few notable exceptions, they seem to be the only ones who can lie to the population about "picking up a turd by the clean end" and still sleep at night with a clean conscience.
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  #71  
Old 08-14-2020, 08:19 PM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is offline
 
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Same ting in da cradle of da Ukrainian settlement!! $$$
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  #72  
Old 08-14-2020, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
Jesus Christ man, do you have to belittle every single thing a guy does???

You were talking about investing in oil companies, now you are onto RRSP's?

Absolutely everything that you disagree with is wrong?

Wrong wrong wrong, everyone else is wrong.

Wow.
We are in a discussion. You stated you didn’t invest. Unless you were not understanding what you wrote .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
As do I. If I cant afford I dont.

I work for a living, investing to me is gambling. I have never invested in anything, but I have always worked.
RRSP’s are very much investing.

You made the statement. I didn’t make anything up.

Cheers

Sun

PS.

Key point was oil and gas companies have never made unreasonable profits nor been a sure bet for investing.
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  #73  
Old 08-14-2020, 08:28 PM
Badgerbadger Badgerbadger is offline
 
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You voted for this.
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  #74  
Old 08-14-2020, 09:12 PM
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If ( big if I think) the counties try and pull this stunt they will literally destroy the housing market in this province. The only people that will benefit from these types af tax increases will be the foreclosure lawyers.
I just bought a small lake property in Lac Ste Anne county and I paid cash , saved a long long time to be able to do it. I can tell you that if my property taxes were to jump by even 30% I would have to sell because I can’t pay that kind of tax on a fixed income.
A tax hike like 100 to 300% is what will be the death knell for this province. It will drive prices into the basement , people won’t be able to sell because who wants a property with a $1000 a month tax bill on top of a $1500 to $2000 monthly mortage . They won’t be able to pay the taxes either so what happens they burn it down and or walk away. People won’t even be able to afford to rent because the landlords have to recoup the taxes too.
People who have worked their entire lives will lose it all and that will not bode well for the health of the law makers of this province. You can push people quite a ways it seems but there is a limit.
This won’t end with counties , cities will do the same . People will pack up and leave this province so fast it will devastating.
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  #75  
Old 08-14-2020, 09:34 PM
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Raise taxes enough they will cut their spending as they will have no choice. So much waste. I can show you two highways 2 miles apart in the MD of Wainwright. Can’t spend more than you make. Works on all levels of spending from everyone’s home spending to our government spending. The debt generation is upon us.
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  #76  
Old 08-14-2020, 09:57 PM
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What my question is ,if you look at SK most RM's have a fraction of the resource revenue and their mill rate are the same or less then AB ,and yet somehow they manage.I will use my county why does every subdivision have street lights and why are the ditches mowed 2-4 times a year an acreage owner can't mow their own ditches?I mow mine.Do we need new equipment every year ?Some counties go look at the shops and offices they have.If you actually look to some of the counties that are complaining the most have actually lowered their mill rate in the last few years.In some ways Pretice was not wrong when he said we need to look in the mirror,lots of the counties courted subdivision including running water and sewer to them,people in AB want city convinces but rural living,plus the counties just like the province became drunk on the O&G money.People and governments need to learn that you can't have your cake and eat it to
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  #77  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:06 PM
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Raise taxes enough they will cut their spending as they will have no choice. So much waste. I can show you two highways 2 miles apart in the MD of Wainwright. Can’t spend more than you make. Works on all levels of spending from everyone’s home spending to our government spending. The debt generation is upon us.
I live in the MD of Wainwright and there are lots of high grade paved roads that should be a gravel road. In SK the primary roads aren’t that nice! They just put a new one in south of Chauvin that runs east and west from Hwy 899 to Hwy 17. The thing is there was already Terminal Road about 3 miles north that does the same thing.
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  #78  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:09 PM
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What does a CEO of a county make these days??
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  #79  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:32 PM
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I’ve never been a landowner in any county of Alberta so just wondering what are most folks paying for say a chunk of land 10-50 acres with a standard sized house on it or can someone point me in the right direction? Obviously 300% is just that but wanted to see if it’s on $500 or $2000 to start.
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  #80  
Old 08-14-2020, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by roughneckin View Post
I’ve never been a landowner in any county of Alberta so just wondering what are most folks paying for say a chunk of land 10-50 acres with a standard sized house on it or can someone point me in the right direction? Obviously 300% is just that but wanted to see if it’s on $500 or $2000 to start.
On. 1.3 acre lot in Parkland county I paid around $2000 yr 4 yrs ago before I sold that acreage. It had a modular home on it and a small garage. In a subdivision with gravel roads. Services included snow plowing in winter and maybe a grader on the gravel once a summer.
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  #81  
Old 08-15-2020, 08:27 AM
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Duplicate

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  #82  
Old 08-15-2020, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tbiddy View Post
I live in the MD of Wainwright and there are lots of high grade paved roads that should be a gravel road. In SK the primary roads aren’t that nice! They just put a new one in south of Chauvin that runs east and west from Hwy 899 to Hwy 17. The thing is there was already Terminal Road about 3 miles north that does the same thing.
Exact road I was thinking of! So many new roads and all help bypass the small towns throughout. At least when roads went by towns people would stop for gas or a coffee and spend the odd dollar.
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  #83  
Old 08-15-2020, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Badgerbadger View Post
You voted for this.
What did you vote for?

The status quo?

Less taxes and more spending lol?
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  #84  
Old 08-15-2020, 09:11 AM
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What does a CEO of a county make these days??
180,000 plus perks around here. I think they are paying secretaries 70,000+ but can't confirm that. They always seem to be needing additional staff.
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  #85  
Old 08-15-2020, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Badgerbadger View Post
You voted for this.
No I did not vote for the Liberals who have done major damage to our Canadian economy, pushed out foreign investors, and have not been able to complete any major projects causing uncertainty.

This has had a major impact

But yes I did vote for the UPC who have not been all that impressive and lack the ability to get anything accomplished with federal liberal opposition. They seem to be scrambling to pay bills with little hope in improving the economy. But hey I could have voted NDP and watched them sink Alberta in deeper debt spending like money is free and pay for it later

Sorry to tell you we are screwed regardless of who was voted in provincial government it is a matter of pay now or pay latter
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  #86  
Old 08-15-2020, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
Exact road I was thinking of! So many new roads and all help bypass the small towns throughout. At least when roads went by towns people would stop for gas or a coffee and spend the odd dollar.
When they were building it, I was shaking my head at the waste. I travel throughout the MD for work and the amount of roads that I consider back roads that are high grade, perfectly paved roads is crazy.
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Old 08-15-2020, 11:33 AM
NCC NCC is offline
 
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Our county is no different. Completely rebuilt a road because it was off ten feet at one end. Same guy owned the land on both sides of the road, and it was 1/2 mile that dead ended in his field. They also rebuilt 2 1/2 miles of road that gets about 20 cars and 1 tank truck a day and hasn’t had a soft spot or wash board in it since my parents moved there in 1980. NASA could land a space shuttle on it now.

This is going to hurt the townies also. MD of Greenview built two big rec centres (Valleyview and Fox Creek), County of GP has a bunch of infrastructure that the City uses, and the county of Clearwater gave the town of Rocky several millions over the past couple of years for their hare brained ideas. Ponoka County played a big part in the construction of the indoor arenas in Ponoka and Rimbey.
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Old 08-15-2020, 02:21 PM
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Ken07AOVette Ken07AOVette is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgerbadger View Post
You voted for this.
No.

I voted against Liberal, and we got it anyway.

Don't include me in your misguided ways, you may have voted Liberal but I did not.
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I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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Old 08-15-2020, 05:02 PM
roper1 roper1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
As do I. If I cant afford I dont.

I work for a living, investing to me is gambling. I have never invested in anything, but I have always worked.
'Compound interest the 8th wonder of the world' quote attributed to Einstein. Unverified if he actually said it, but anyone who hasn't invested a bit throughout their adulthood has missed out a lot of opportunity.
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  #90  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:35 PM
Badgerbadger Badgerbadger is offline
 
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Originally Posted by CNP View Post
What did you vote for?

The status quo?

Less taxes and more spending lol?
I voted for a government that supports Alberta and Albertans, rather than giving away money to successful corporations.

Are you new here?
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