Massive taxation increase coming

[W921]

It can turn into a situation where if you hang on to a house or acreage for 5 or ten years that you end up with less equity into it when you figure out what you spent on taxes and payments compared to what its now worth.
MDs and towns should not only cut back their spending but look for ways to cut down on red tape to make things more affordable. Of course they won't do this. Instead they will invest in bylaw enforcement and up permit costs and come out with more red tape.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by hypermoa

what isn’t being said is that most counties are having budget problems right now. Their revenues are way off to begin with so even if kenney does nothing they are facing huge shortfalls regardless. I’d be interested if any county will guarantee no tax hikes if this is left alone. They were planning a huge tax hike regardless. This just makes kenney the boogeyman instead of them.

Kenney hasn’t even said he is going to do anything. He is just pointing out that other jurisdictions have lower rates and many companies are going insolvent which ends up netting zero taxes. He hasn’t proposed a thing and wainwright already knows taxes need to be raised 400%????? Get real!!! They were planning that before kenney stepped into their minefield. That’s is just a fortunate coincidence for them.

this^^^^^^

[sjemac]

So lets say my sevices get cut 45.2%. 45.2 % of nothing is what?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by sjemac

So lets say my sevices get cut 45.2%. 45.2 % of nothing is what?

That's what I say.

Cut to the bone.

[Rancid Crabtree]

Originally Posted by W921

I guess cutting their spending was never an option?

You can be certain that will not be considered by the county staff !!
Given the ridiculous way red deer county operates it’s awful hard to feel bad for them. Cut the services by 50% would be a start.

[vcmm]

Kenny is Notley with a bigger bosom and smaller testies.
Another taxpayer funded career criminal.

[Sundancefisher]

Seriously. What do you think should happen?

Municipalities have been gouging oil and gas companies for years. At $120 oil...sure it’s a cost of business and not worth the political or public relations impact.

However fact is while oil prices went up...so did fixed costs like taxes. When oil prices plummeted...taxes went up.

Municipalities can either pay their fair via residents or reduce services. If taxes came down...some wells could still produce and afford to pay some taxes.

Otherwise the value of abandoning a well to reduce taxes to zero makes sense in which case there are zero taxes.

Fact is for some stripper wells and low productivity wells... high taxes makes them unprofitable to run.

Until the economy turns... there is no option.

Want to make a difference. Stop attacking oil companies and UPC and instead direct your attention to the NDP, Bloc, greens and Liberals who have destroyed our fine oil and gas sector through political attacks and sleeping with foreign lobbyists.

Start a campaign targeting the true villains.

Otherwise you are just making them laugh that you are eating your own.

[CBintheNorth]

^^^What he said.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

^^^What he said.

X3

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

That's what I say.

Cut to the bone.

Do you think they'll be able to do as good a job though if their entire fleet isn't 2019/2020 3500 diesel 4x4s though?!?

The excess is sickening. They could probably cut 50% and the average citizen wouldn't even know. They all like cutting the high profile items though, then everyone gets all up in arms about reduced services, taxes have to go up, we can't cut that!

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Do you think they'll be able to do as good a job though if their entire fleet isn't 2019/2020 3500 diesel 4x4s though?!?

The excess is sickening. They could probably cut 50% and the average citizen wouldn't even know. They all like cutting the high profile items though, then everyone gets all up in arms about reduced services, taxes have to go up, we can't cut that!

Pretty sure the county here doesn't own a piece of equipment that is old enough to be off the factory service plan, but they have two heavy duty mechanics on full time staff.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Pretty sure the county here doesn't own a piece of equipment that is old enough to be off the factory service plan, but they have two heavy duty mechanics on full time staff.

I was referencing Lacombe County, they are likely similar. They have alot of money, partially due to Joffre, but they sure like spending it. Most of their equipment is near new as well, really nice shop, big office, etc., etc., etc.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

That's what I say.

Cut to the bone.

if they have too...we are good to go out here..dont need any services to get by...that's what living in the country is about....paying for rinky dink ditch cutting, snow removal after an inch....meh...most MD's can reduce cost big times...and if you don't like it move back into the cities and get a condo, town house etc.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Seriously. What do you think should happen?

Municipalities have been gouging oil and gas companies for years. At $120 oil...sure it’s a cost of business and not worth the political or public relations impact.

However fact is while oil prices went up...so did fixed costs like taxes. When oil prices plummeted...taxes went up.

Municipalities can either pay their fair via residents or reduce services. If taxes came down...some wells could still produce and afford to pay some taxes.

Otherwise the value of abandoning a well to reduce taxes to zero makes sense in which case there are zero taxes.

Fact is for some stripper wells and low productivity wells... high taxes makes them unprofitable to run.

Until the economy turns... there is no option.

Want to make a difference. Stop attacking oil companies and UPC and instead direct your attention to the NDP, Bloc, greens and Liberals who have destroyed our fine oil and gas sector through political attacks and sleeping with foreign lobbyists.

Start a campaign targeting the true villains.

Otherwise you are just making them laugh that you are eating your own.

this is Alberta based on greed for the most part....everything from oil companies to MD's etc are equally part of this greed...now reality has hit...time to cut....trim the fat and a lot of it...throw in the pandemic etc and not so good times are coming but that being said we are far better off then most....we all seen this coming cuz billions of dollars went out...time to recoup the loses...taxes.....

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Seriously. What do you think should happen?

Municipalities have been gouging oil and gas companies for years. At $120 oil...sure it’s a cost of business and not worth the political or public relations impact.

However fact is while oil prices went up...so did fixed costs like taxes. When oil prices plummeted...taxes went up.

Municipalities can either pay their fair via residents or reduce services. If taxes came down...some wells could still produce and afford to pay some taxes.

Otherwise the value of abandoning a well to reduce taxes to zero makes sense in which case there are zero taxes.

Fact is for some stripper wells and low productivity wells... high taxes makes them unprofitable to run.

Until the economy turns... there is no option.

Want to make a difference. Stop attacking oil companies and UPC and instead direct your attention to the NDP, Bloc, greens and Liberals who have destroyed our fine oil and gas sector through political attacks and sleeping with foreign lobbyists.

Start a campaign targeting the true villains.

Otherwise you are just making them laugh that you are eating your own.

Yeah those poor poor oil companies, what a shame they lose a zero every decade or 2 off the billions in profit.

If I remember correctly you live in an apartment and ride a bus, you pay no property tax and no vehicle upkeep or insurance.

If that works for you, great, sounds like your oil investment keeps you in the black.

But the rest of us that own homes and vehicles are going to be hit very hard.

What happens when your rent goes up 400% per month to cover property tax hits?

Dont say it wont happen.

[Dynamic]

I personally find it ironic that the people who voted the most "pro UPC" are gonna be affected the most, and not in a good way. I'm conflicted as to whether I feel sorry for those who are going to be affected or just realize that these life long conservative voters need a hard learned lesson.

You should NOT decide who you are voting by what the politicians are saying during the election campaign but by rather what the party stands for. How do you go up to that ballot box not knowing that this government would try to offload costs to cities and municipalities? How could you NOT draw the conclusion that he was going to try to make it easy as possible for oil & gas? Kenny made it pretty clear during his campaign he was going to bat for the oil & gas industry did he not. Too many people decided not to figure out what the eventual outcome would be for voting UPC. Now everyone is shocked to find out that their taxes are might have to have to be hiked or face huge service reductions. A little bit of research (sharing Facebook memes or putting dumb stickers on your truck does NOT count as research) goes a long ways but it takes effort so people just go to the ballot box essentially blind and vote for the politician they like the best. For good or bad, you get the government you deserve.

I also find it ironic that this government that claims to be conservative and embrace conservative values are trying to prop up and industry that has burned through an extraordinary amount of money and are now in dire straights. I consider myself fiscally conservative and I am because I realize there are good times and there are bad times. I have a rainy day fund to help me when things go bad. Perhaps these oil companies that are now in trouble should of better managed their money. It was absolutley crazy there for a couple years with the money being thrown around. I have friends who told me the stories and to me t sounded like the entire industry was on a coke bender living the high life. Maybe just perhaps of saved a little for when things are not so good. Just a thought? Conservative is not just a word you through around when it is convenient. To me it looks like oil companies like the word conservative but in reality they are far from it.

Now for the other side of the argument....I lived in a rural municipality for many years and now live in a town. I will honestly admit my taxes were laughably low when I lived in the municipality. When I moved to town my taxes increased 400%. Perhaps a increase is needed in rural municipalities and maybe a look at spending is needed in town where I live to bring the number together.

[Exuberant]

'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs man who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

[urban rednek]

People get upset when the Pyramid Scheme they championed for years starts to fall apart and they find out they won't be getting any MOAR!

[Smoky buck]

We would see a variation of taxes regardless of the political party voted into power. The only possible difference is those who would run a debt until they are voted out and the next party inline had to clean things up

Canada and Alberta miss managed this country and tax dollars during good times and all parties are guilty of it. Yes a lot of political parties in Canada oppose oil & gas and don’t help things but let’s be honest here there is way more at play the politics effecting this sector. It is an industry that was exploited during good times without considering that things won’t run like this forever

Every party from cons to Libs are gluteness pigs who miss manage money in some fashion. The only difference is how they go about it and the sector’s they attack or promote.

Things are way more complicated then a simple change in parties is needed. This is years(Yes the Libs have been the worst in a long time) of poor management coming into light during really tough times

Sure would be great to have a different govt but in my opinion it’s more complicated then that

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I was referencing Lacombe County, they are likely similar. They have alot of money, partially due to Joffre, but they sure like spending it. Most of their equipment is near new as well, really nice shop, big office, etc., etc., etc.

Seems to be a common thing these days, to retire equipment because of age, not use, based on the theoretical premise that maintenance will be costlier than replacement. Even the local fire departments are donating their older but perfectly good trucks to some hamlet in Mexico, where they don't even have suitable roads or the means to keep these things running.

Grizz

[W921]

On the radio, I think it was Charles Adler? But the Impression i got was a lot of Biden supporters who dont own anything are expecting to get the foreclosed houses of the soon to be bankrupt middle class given to them if the election goes their way. I think once elected Biden wont help any of them,but who knows?
You may not think of yourself as wealthy but someone else might. I think class warfare is destructive and just another way to divide us.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I personally find it ironic that the people who voted the most "pro UPC" are gonna be affected the most, and not in a good way. I'm conflicted as to whether I feel sorry for those who are going to be affected or just realize that these life long conservative voters need a hard learned lesson.

You should NOT decide who you are voting by what the politicians are saying during the election campaign but by rather what the party stands for. How do you go up to that ballot box not knowing that this government would try to offload costs to cities and municipalities? How could you NOT draw the conclusion that he was going to try to make it easy as possible for oil & gas? Kenny made it pretty clear during his campaign he was going to bat for the oil & gas industry did he not. Too many people decided not to figure out what the eventual outcome would be for voting UPC. Now everyone is shocked to find out that their taxes are might have to have to be hiked or face huge service reductions. A little bit of research (sharing Facebook memes or putting dumb stickers on your truck does NOT count as research) goes a long ways but it takes effort so people just go to the ballot box essentially blind and vote for the politician they like the best. For good or bad, you get the government you deserve.

I also find it ironic that this government that claims to be conservative and embrace conservative values are trying to prop up and industry that has burned through an extraordinary amount of money and are now in dire straights. I consider myself fiscally conservative and I am because I realize there are good times and there are bad times. I have a rainy day fund to help me when things go bad. Perhaps these oil companies that are now in trouble should of better managed their money. It was absolutley crazy there for a couple years with the money being thrown around. I have friends who told me the stories and to me t sounded like the entire industry was on a coke bender living the high life. Maybe just perhaps of saved a little for when things are not so good. Just a thought? Conservative is not just a word you through around when it is convenient. To me it looks like oil companies like the word conservative but in reality they are far from it.

Now for the other side of the argument....I lived in a rural municipality for many years and now live in a town. I will honestly admit my taxes were laughably low when I lived in the municipality. When I moved to town my taxes increased 400%. Perhaps a increase is needed in rural municipalities and maybe a look at spending is needed in town where I live to bring the number together.

So you are a liberal supporter that owns nothing?

That's about what I got from your rambling nonsense.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I personally find it ironic that the people who voted the most "pro UPC" are gonna be affected the most, and not in a good way. I'm conflicted as to whether I feel sorry for those who are going to be affected or just realize that these life long conservative voters need a hard learned lesson.

You should NOT decide who you are voting by what the politicians are saying during the election campaign but by rather what the party stands for. How do you go up to that ballot box not knowing that this government would try to offload costs to cities and municipalities? How could you NOT draw the conclusion that he was going to try to make it easy as possible for oil & gas? Kenny made it pretty clear during his campaign he was going to bat for the oil & gas industry did he not. Too many people decided not to figure out what the eventual outcome would be for voting UPC. Now everyone is shocked to find out that their taxes are might have to have to be hiked or face huge service reductions. A little bit of research (sharing Facebook memes or putting dumb stickers on your truck does NOT count as research) goes a long ways but it takes effort so people just go to the ballot box essentially blind and vote for the politician they like the best. For good or bad, you get the government you deserve.

I also find it ironic that this government that claims to be conservative and embrace conservative values are trying to prop up and industry that has burned through an extraordinary amount of money and are now in dire straights. I consider myself fiscally conservative and I am because I realize there are good times and there are bad times. I have a rainy day fund to help me when things go bad. Perhaps these oil companies that are now in trouble should of better managed their money. It was absolutley crazy there for a couple years with the money being thrown around. I have friends who told me the stories and to me t sounded like the entire industry was on a coke bender living the high life. Maybe just perhaps of saved a little for when things are not so good. Just a thought? Conservative is not just a word you through around when it is convenient. To me it looks like oil companies like the word conservative but in reality they are far from it.

Now for the other side of the argument....I lived in a rural municipality for many years and now live in a town. I will honestly admit my taxes were laughably low when I lived in the municipality. When I moved to town my taxes increased 400%. Perhaps a increase is needed in rural municipalities and maybe a look at spending is needed in town where I live to bring the number together.

Typical socialist response.. "You can pay more so I don't have to pay so much"

[riden]

I’m considering buying a recreational property in Brazeau county, one reason is I like the low property taxes.

Can anyone enlighten me about potential changes there before I buy? Anyone received clarification?

[Exuberant]

Originally Posted by riden

I’m considering buying a recreational property in Brazeau county, one reason is I like the low property taxes.

Can anyone enlighten me about potential changes there before I buy? Anyone received clarification?

The UCP are planning on moving a lot of the property tax burden in rural towns and counties from multi national oil and gas corporations to the citizens who happen to live there. There are some estimates that property tax will have to go up between 30-400% to compensate or a drastic reduction in services.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by Exuberant

The UCP are planning on moving a lot of the property tax burden in rural towns and counties from multi national oil and gas corporations to the citizens who happen to live there. There are some estimates that property tax will have to go up between 30-400% to compensate or a drastic reduction in services.

or....

difficulty with moving our product, combined with aggressive anti-oil propaganda have depressed the price of oil and resulted in companies looking at pulling out of Alberta. To attempt to address this, the government is looking at reducing the taxes they pay to make remaining in Alberta more attractive.

If nothing is done it is quite possible these companies will simply leave causing a loss of jobs and any potential revenue.

Counties which have traditionally been supported by these tax revenues now fear they will have to reduce services or increase taxes.

Projected increases/reductions are uncertain and subject to hyper-ventilation and fear mongering.

[Exuberant]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

or....

difficulty with moving our product, combined with aggressive anti-oil propaganda have depressed the price of oil and resulted in companies looking at pulling out of Alberta. To attempt to address this, the government is looking at reducing the taxes they pay to make remaining in Alberta more attractive.

If nothing is done it is quite possible these companies will simply leave causing a loss of jobs and any potential revenue.

Counties which have traditionally been supported by these tax revenues now fear they will have to reduce services or increase taxes.

Projected increases/reductions are uncertain and subject to hyper-ventilation and fear mongering.

Actually the projections are accurate, it just isn't equal between each rural town or county that is why it I said 30-400%. The UCP have stated how much % of the burden they intend to shift to the municipllality. Plunk that number into a math equation and you have exactly how much more the citizens will have to pay. That is why the citizens are getting letters telling them how much more they will have to pay to compensate if it's followed through.

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

So you are a liberal supporter that owns nothing?

That's about what I got from your rambling nonsense.

I type all that and that is your response. I expect a bit more and please tell me your opinion why I am wrong. And to answer your question I am not a liberal supporter and I do "own" my house.

What part of my rambling non sense so do you disagree with the most? Do you believe the oil industry has been prudent with their money? Do you think this government actually believes the conservative values they seem to tell everyone they believe in? Do you think voters actually researched the political party they ticked off in the special box on voting day?

And just to clarify I do support the oil industry. I hope it is around for a while yet and I am grateful that we have had such a good run. But what I do not like is the coddling of the industry lately. These oil companies had no trouble agreeing to their tax agreement when times are good. The government should not be stepping in to save them when times are bad. If it is so bad and you can't make money then close your operation, reclaim the land, and move on. When I bought my house years ago I knew going in I was going to pay a set amount of taxes and it would go up 2-5% per year. I have a budget made each year and I account for that. Oil companies should do their due diligence and realize that oil booms come and go and you have to have a plan and money saved when times are not so good. When times are bad I do not expect the government to save me. If it becomes to much I sell or find a way to make more income. I don't expect a handout. Especially on the backs of the other ratepayers.

Like I said earlier I believe there are situations that can be looked at such as me paying such a low tax rate in the MD as compared to town. Are farmers paying their fair share? I'm not saying there is not a compromise but the proposal that the UPC has put forward is not workable or fair.

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by hal53

Typical socialist response.. "You can pay more so I don't have to pay so much"

I do not even know how to respond that because your so far off. The good ol' typical conservative response to anyone who does not agree with them is to call them a socialist.

I'll give you my background. I work a blue collar job as a tradesmen and own a house and pay my fair share of taxes. I have worked continuously for 15 years and at no point did I go on EI outside of the CERB for one month. I own no toys and have no debts. I drive a beater car that was paid for outright with money I saved.

I had a divorce years ago and had to start from scratch. I had to save up for a down payment for a house again and I did. I had no handouts and just went to work every day. I saved some more money and now have a rainy day fund. I work hard and I expect no handouts. So before you start throwing the word socialist around because I have a different view on some issues, realize that I probably share many of your values and will continue to do so.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Yeah those poor poor oil companies, what a shame they lose a zero every decade or 2 off the billions in profit.

If I remember correctly you live in an apartment and ride a bus, you pay no property tax and no vehicle upkeep or insurance.

If that works for you, great, sounds like your oil investment keeps you in the black.

But the rest of us that own homes and vehicles are going to be hit very hard.

What happens when your rent goes up 400% per month to cover property tax hits?

Dont say it wont happen.

Your memory is terrible.

I live within my means. If life deals a setback you adjust down your living expenses. I see the NDP mantra of just tax the gap fails history. It doesn’t work.

Oil companies never made excessive profits. If they did and you believed it...why didn’t you invest?

Because oil and gas is risky. It is risky to drill because often you lose money on a well. You budget to have more wells that over perform than under perform. I have challenged many to look at the publicly available financial data and no one has EVER been able to show a company that makes unreasonable profits. I’m fact McDonalds makes far more money and you haven’t complained about them once. Why?

O&G is a business requiring constant reinvestment and many fixes and variable costs. Then need to factor in currency valuations and world commodity prices not to mean ignorant vitriol against an oil and gas industry that has helped build Canada from coast to coast.

To attempt to suggest municipalities aren’t part of their own problem is troubling. Unless I read wrong you seem to agree they need to cut back hard to also adjust to the new realities.