When is too big?

[RedFisher]

Ok... so my buddy and i are having alittle argument over rifle calibre and deer hunting. I personally shoot a 7mm rem mag and have on a few different days shot a deer with a 300 win mag while hunting for elk... This year he went out and shot 2 does with his 7mm mag. using a 150 grain bullet... he comes back complaining that its way too big for deer and that when he clipped one in the shoulder that it destroyed it... well my instant responce after seeing the pictures that a 22-250 is too big for killing a bambi never mind his 7mm .... and yes i know you cant use a 22-250 for hunting deer...

But down to my question ive shot deer for years with my 7mm win mag shooting from a 145 - 160 grn bullet. is this overkill or is shot placement just the key... Like he wants to drop down to a 243 ... he wont even consider a 270... What do you use and what do you think am i the one overkilling or is he just out to lunch... OO yah let me also say that i use a 7mm yes for the knockdown power but also because i have taken shots well over 400 yrds with it... and at that yardage a 100 grn bullet just doesnt do it for me...

[hmk154]

I have shot Deer with my .325wsm while hunting moose, and have done minimal destruction. I think the .325 is overkill for sure but I think bullet selection and shot placement are more critical if you want to minimize damage to meat. 7mm is just fine for deer in my opinion. If you hand load there is lots of bullet selection and loads to play with and just pick the shot as best you can to destroy vitals and not meat. I have had good success with frontal chest shots and neck shots. I'm sure Ill catch some flack for saying that but whatever

[Redfrog]

I've shot a ton of beasties with my 7mm. Not one of them was TOO dead.

I've seen coyotes D E S T R O Y E D by a 204 and others dead from the lead of a 338 that had very little fur damage.

Use whatever is legal and works for you. 243 is plenty to kill a deer. If he's happy good for him. I have a buddy who is married to the devil's sister, but he kinda likes her so whatever trips your trigger.

I had a client shoot a mule deer at 180 yards dead center facing him. The deer dropped like a sack of spuds and we recovered the bullet under the hide at the back of the right rear leg. It had traveled full length, destroying everything in it's path and ended up damaging less than a handful of meat in the hip where the bullet finally varied from it's path just a few cms.

[omega50]

Hmm I guess 458 Norma Win Mag is overkill?

As long as the reverberation at the shot relases joy in your heart and makes you smile a big **** eating grin

[stinkynuts]

to me this thread comes down to bullet type a nosler ballistic tip or partion will stop and disapate all the energy into the animal and destroy anything close to it or on the other end good hitting power but way less damage as far as i am concerd would be a boat tail or pointed soft point witch will jusy mushroom out and still kill well but do way less damage just my opinion boys

[duffy4]

I don't like to ruin too much meat. But I do like to make a good clean shot and kill and recover the animal.

You can kill a fly with a chop-stick or a sledge hammer. But a fly swatter is a better tool to use.

Same with deer. There are lots (pretty well all) of cartridges you can kill deer with but there are several that are probably somewhat better tools than the smallest (.22) and the largest (.458).

The bullet and how it reacts (construction and speed) when it hits the deer is the biggest factor with ruined meat.

[KegRiver]

I worked as a big game guide for a few seasons.
I saw a lot of different people shoot a lot of game with a lot of different calibers.
All this lead me to one conclusion. No caliber is too big or too small for the animals you are after.
But a gun can be to big for the shooter. If you are afraid of the gun, it's not the gun for you.
I watched more then once as one of our favorite clients, a huge man who carried a Mag-na-ported 375 H&H magnum, miss shot after shot.
One day I was looking directly at him when he fired that cannon. He flinched like he had been stung by a bee. The gun kicked like a 30-06 but his mind was telling him it would kick like a 375 so he flinched. And he missed.

I have watched many an old trapper drop game with small calibers from a 22mag to a 25-35, and never miss a shot. Almost every shot was a one shot kill.

Yeah I know that a 22mag is illegal for big game. I didn't know it back then and I don't think the shooter did either. The Moose clearly didn't know it, it dropped on the second shot.

I would recommend any mid size caliber 243, 6mm 6.5x55 are all good deer guns in my opinion. But if you like the 375H&H and can shoot well with it, by all means, use it.

[KegRiver]

I should add. Under no circumstance do I recommend using such a small caliber. And would not even if it were not against the law.

[Bassett]

Its simple, go big or go home.

[Redfrog]

Good points Keg River. I've seen guys with more gun than they could handle. It is not a pretty sight.

[Cal]

x2 it all depends on what your comfortable with. Personaly I think the 7mm mag is on the big side of ideal for a deer cartridge but by no means too big. I use a .270 for everything these days but I'd have to say my favorite deer cartridge is the 30-30. Takes deer out to 200 yards and in a pinch it will down a moose at 100, so pretty much 98.4% of the animals I've shot. Not that it proves anything but the quickest kill I ever had was with a 30-30, I dont think that deer even heard the shot it died so fast.

[South west trappin RG]

I have used a 270 for all my game 130 grain untill this year I bought a new sako light hunting rifel in 300wsm. After shooting a bunch the 180 grain shoots the best groups for me. I had 5 full days in the mountains looking for sheep and elk with no real chance for a shot at either i thought i would bring it on my antolope hunt three weeks ago and it had its first kill. 355 yards the goat was sleeping and it never got up. Right shot placement is the key to not wrecking any meat, the only meat that was destroyed was the heart and some ribbs. I put 75 shells though my new gun before i even took it to the field. My 270 has wrecked allot of both front sholders of an elk on an off shot and the lead never left the elks hide. I have also had allot of exelent shots with the 270 that never had me cutting clotted blood meat out of any elk or deer.

[RedFisher]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I worked as a big game guide for a few seasons.
I saw a lot of different people shoot a lot of game with a lot of different calibers.
All this lead me to one conclusion. No caliber is too big or too small for the animals you are after.
But a gun can be to big for the shooter. If you are afraid of the gun, it's not the gun for you.
I watched more then once as one of our favorite clients, a huge man who carried a Mag-na-ported 375 H&H magnum, miss shot after shot.
One day I was looking directly at him when he fired that cannon. He flinched like he had been stung by a bee. The gun kicked like a 30-06 but his mind was telling him it would kick like a 375 so he flinched. And he missed.

I have watched many an old trapper drop game with small calibers from a 22mag to a 25-35, and never miss a shot. Almost every shot was a one shot kill.

Yeah I know that a 22mag is illegal for big game. I didn't know it back then and I don't think the shooter did either. The Moose clearly didn't know it, it dropped on the second shot.

I would recommend any mid size caliber 243, 6mm 6.5x55 are all good deer guns in my opinion. But if you like the 375H&H and can shoot well with it, by all means, use it.

Yah i know what you mean i was just at the range a couple weeks ago. I seen a guy break out three guns a 300 win mag, 7mm rem mag and a 270... buddy was hitting the gong at 300 yrds every shot with his 270 he breaks out his 7mm couldnt hit the target for the life of him.... stopped for a while and started chatting with him then he asked me to give him some pointers...as i was also shooting a 7mm and getting inch and a half grouping at 300 yrds..ok i watched him shoot a few rounds .... watched every shot and i seen him flintch like no tomorro... ok told him to stop and shoot his .300 as his 7 was getting hot allready.... boom boom boom... dead center no flintch.... i finally convinced him that its not the gun he should be affraid of hell he shot a 300 win mag no issue....if it got through im not sure but you've gotta be confterable with your gun...

[Rockymtnx]

Is there ever such a thing as to big? Its all about bullet design and bullet placement.
I guarantee you that I can make more of a mess with high expansion type of bullet out of a .243 than I could with a high weight retention bullet out of a .300.
A .243 shooting Nosler Ballistic Tip in a deer's shoulder will make a lot more mess than a .300 shooting Nosler E-Tips.

When you can't shoot it off your shoulder, you've crossed the threshold of too big!

[CR5]

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

Is there ever such a thing as to big? Its all about bullet design and bullet placement.
I guarantee you that I can make more of a mess with high expansion type of bullet out of a .243 than I could with a high weight retention bullet out of a .300.
A .243 shooting Nosler Ballistic Tip in a deer's shoulder will make a lot more mess than a .300 shooting Nosler E-Tips.

Exactly.
Propper bullet choice and placement are the key factors.
I'm going out with my 45-70 this year for deer and also going to use my 338 Lapua. Yes they are both total overkill but I plan to use a decent bullet and place the shot where there will be minimal meat loss.
Last year my 243 destroyed a complete front shoulder so a small fast bullet can do just as much damage as anything else.

[Solothurn]

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

Is there ever such a thing as to big? Its all about bullet design and bullet placement.
I guarantee you that I can make more of a mess with high expansion type of bullet out of a .243 than I could with a high weight retention bullet out of a .300.
A .243 shooting Nosler Ballistic Tip in a deer's shoulder will make a lot more mess than a .300 shooting Nosler E-Tips.

I could not agree more.
I have shot several deer with my 50BMG over the years and have had ALOT less meat damage than I have with well placed shots from a 25-06
Many assume wrongly that big calibers mean massive damage.
On relatively small animals like deer the really heavy bullets due to their thick jackets barely expand if at all. You need a FAR larger harder target to get the really big bullets to expand much or come apart.

Most of the deer I have killed with my 50 were shot fully broadside and I got a 3/4 inch entry and a 1" exit wound.
I have not expereinced what the result of a shoulder or any other poorly placed shot with the 50 would be as unless I am positive of a broadside through the ribs shot, will not take it.

Is 50 BMG overkill? Certainly it is, but being a legal to hunt with caliber , why not have fun hunting?

[Floppy]

I personally don't think that you can have too much gun as long as you can shoot with it. If you are able to make the shot without flinching or jerking the gun and not wounding anything give it to him.