landowner tags

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

There is nothing wrong with landowners tags or the system. Like anything there is abuse. Deal with abusers would be a good start.

Unfortunately, there is a problem with the Landowner licence system, regardless of abuse.

The problem is simple.

There is No written Landowner licence policy.

No government system can run without enforceable rules.



Currently, Resident allocation percentages offered to Landowners are determined ad hoc by a local biologist, typically based on individual perceptions, pressures and desires.

Without a policy, there is no ability to control expansion of the program. It is currently designed with no barrier preventing ALL Resident allocations to being distributed exclusively as Landowner licences.



Perhaps the most significant reason why Landowner licences for Antlered Mule deer are on the chopping block is because the government and the now very private consultation team have refused to address the lack of policy.

This lack of policy allowed biologists to issue too great a percentage of the allocation to Landowners, for whatever personal reasons they used to make their decisions. A fire was lit when the truth of Landowner licences became public knowledge after I became the first person outside of the government to access the data.


Now, everyone must keep in mind that ONLY Antlered Mule deer Landowner licences are being considered for elimination or reductions.
Other species are actually experiencing an Increase in allocation for Landowner licences.



Government and the now secret AGPAC consultation team are to blame for this problem.

The only way to clean up this mess is to create a Landowner licence policy.

[Snap Shot]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

When I was a kid my parents taught me to share and not be greedy. I don’t outfit in Alberta, but me and my family hunt here as residents.
I have no problem giving up 10% to non residents so people involved in the Alberta Outfitting industry can feed their families !
I also have no problem with 10% of the harvest to going landowners each year !
That would still leave 80% for us residents, which is more then a fair chunk of the pie. If you were taught how to share and not be greedy I mean, unfortunately some seem to have missed that lesson, or they get it honestly because their parents had the same me, me, me, greedy mindset.

You don’t have to trust me at all Deer Hunter, your hypocritical opinion matters very little to me.

Glad you have no problem. But guess what the majority of resident Albertan’s do.
You literally sound like some kind pastor. “Can’t we all just share”
When In fact outfitters within there zones where they have tags literally feel intitlied to the biggest & best animals & literally will do anything to get residents kicked off land or out of the area.!!
I think you should just donate your hunts for free there mother Theresa.
Don’t you have all this hard work to be doing anyway right now?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Snap Shot

Glad you have no problem. But guess what the majority of resident Albertan’s do.
You literally sound like some kind pastor. “Can’t we all just share”
When In fact outfitters within there zones where they have tags literally feel intitlied to the biggest & best animals & literally will do anything to get residents kicked off land or out of the area.!!
I think you should just donate your hunts for free there mother Theresa.
Don’t you have all this hard work to be doing anyway right now?

“The majority of residents do” That’s an interesting statement

Have you had your thesis published already ? I’d love to read the research you’ve used to back up your statement ! lol
I’m going to guess it’s just as credible as the sources you’ve acquired the “Outfitters in their zones feel entitled to the biggest and best animals & literally will do anything to get residents kicked off land or out of the area” opinion from !

You are obviously far more intelligent then me ! I completely lack the ability to fabricate false narratives in my own mind in an attempt to push my personal agenda with fallacies !

I’ve never been called a pastor before although me and the big guy upstairs have talked a few times. I also don’t work for free, so likely won’t be donating all my hunts, the family still needs to eat.

I’m actually on a day off from my hard work, enjoying some quiet time alone in a hotel room 4000 kms from my family. Dallas Safari Club starts up Thursday and I have to set up the booth tomorrow. But no worries, on Monday when I fly home, load up the truck with wolf bait, drive 12 hours north away from my family again to continue predator control in my concession, I’ll think about getting a real job, and actually doing some hard work for a change 👍

[Wolftrapper]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

“The majority of residents do” That’s an interesting statement

Have you had your thesis published already ? I’d love to read the research you’ve used to back up your statement ! lol
I’m going to guess it’s just as credible as the sources you’ve acquired the “Outfitters in their zones feel entitled to the biggest and best animals & literally will do anything to get residents kicked off land or out of the area” opinion from !

You are obviously far more intelligent then me ! I completely lack the ability to fabricate false narratives in my own mind in an attempt to push my personal agenda with fallacies !

I’ve never been called a pastor before although me and the big guy upstairs have talked a few times. I also don’t work for free, so likely won’t be donating all my hunts, the family still needs to eat.

I’m actually on a day off from my hard work, enjoying some quiet time alone in a hotel room 4000 kms from my family. Dallas Safari Club starts up Thursday and I have to set up the booth tomorrow. But no worries, on Monday when I fly home, load up the truck with wolf bait, drive 12 hours north away from my family again to continue predator control in my concession, I’ll think about getting a real job, and actually doing some hard work for a change 👍

I'm a resident and have no problem with it.
Outfitting like almost every business is a gamble and takes dedication and a lot of hard work. As is ranching and farming. Hopefully the landowner tags stay.
Enjoy Dallas. The weather should be better than here.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Snap Shot

Glad you have no problem. But guess what the majority of resident Albertan’s do.
You literally sound like some kind pastor. “Can’t we all just share”
When In fact outfitters within there zones where they have tags literally feel intitlied to the biggest & best animals & literally will do anything to get residents kicked off land or out of the area.!!
I think you should just donate your hunts for free there mother Theresa.
Don’t you have all this hard work to be doing anyway right now?

Sounds like your pretty hard done by
Should break out the cheque book and buy your own little piece of paradise and then no one will bother you.

[Snap Shot]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Sounds like your pretty hard done by
Should break out the cheque book and buy your own little piece of paradise and then no one will bother you.

God no I got it made in the shade my man. I just spend a lot of days in the field & know what’s up.
Residents before non residents with me every day of the week, wether it’s landowners or draws. Anyhoo I got big string of casing to put in the ground tonight no time for this pro guide Bs...

[dustinjoels]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

As said before. Any and every system is subject to abuse. I don't think many landowners put the titles of various 1/4's I'm their kids name so they get landowners tags. That is a stretch of one's imagination imo.

You guys that are whining about landowners having tags would be better advised to look at the residency requirements.

I know of multiple families that do this for the landowners tags. Cost is negligible to add a son/daughter to title. This was discussed in the previous thread addressing this subject. Less than a few hundred dollars.

Just add junior to title on a quarter with dad and he gets a landowners license. I’m sure it’s not hard to shuffle around the tax implications. Dad’s the one who gets the income, junior only has his name on for hereditary reasons (and of course mule deer tags)

I’m not joking. I know of multiple families that do this solely for the antlered mule deer tags. It’s fine if you don’t believe me. But just a few families doing it in a particular WMU greatly skews the allocation of tags. And it’s not illegal. Some would say not even unethical. That’s why the system is under review. Because like I said a few have ruined it for the many.

I’ve stated on multiple threads, I’m not against landowner tags. I appreciate landowners. It is because of them that I enjoy the pass time I love. Just allocate 10% of the tags for landowners. That’s about what it was when the program was started. Keeping it as so seems fair.

[dustinjoels]

But the thread was asking if anyone had received a response from the government or SRD about landowner tags.

No is the answer.

They will roll out whatever they want with very little consultation as per usual.

Arguing why or why not only creates division.

I’ll never convince a landowner why 30-40% of tags in a zone being allocated to landowners is to high. Whereas he’ll never convince me that he has the right to the deer for providing habitat. I’ve made my stance clear. 10% for landowners is fair. But fair never satisfies anyone. Both sides feel cheated. That’s why it’s fair.

[boah]

Finally after 3+ pages someone has given a yes/no answer. Congrats AO fans.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Wolftrapper

I'm a resident and have no problem with it.
Outfitting like almost every business is a gamble and takes dedication and a lot of hard work. As is ranching and farming. Hopefully the landowner tags stay.
Enjoy Dallas. The weather should be better than here.

Yes sir, she’s all hard work when you’re doing it on your own !

And thanks, the weather is definitely warmer down here, and way less snow 👍

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by dustinjoels

I know of multiple families that do this for the landowners tags. Cost is negligible to add a son/daughter to title. This was discussed in the previous thread addressing this subject. Less than a few hundred dollars.

Just add junior to title on a quarter with dad and he gets a landowners license. I’m sure it’s not hard to shuffle around the tax implications. Dad’s the one who gets the income, junior only has his name on for hereditary reasons (and of course mule deer tags)

I’m not joking. I know of multiple families that do this solely for the antlered mule deer tags. It’s fine if you don’t believe me. But just a few families doing it in a particular WMU greatly skews the allocation of tags. And it’s not illegal. Some would say not even unethical. That’s why the system is under review. Because like I said a few have ruined it for the many.

I’ve stated on multiple threads, I’m not against landowner tags. I appreciate landowners. It is because of them that I enjoy the pass time I love. Just allocate 10% of the tags for landowners. That’s about what it was when the program was started. Keeping it as so seems fair.

Well isn't that something. First I've heard of this and I do believe you but I have a hard time believing that this is common.

[huntwat]

Got a long reply from ESRD.
Summary, Nothing changing in the near future. But, they are looking into options.

[Redhorse Ranch]

This is welcome news, and good news for those who hunt my land, also. I hope common sense prevails. If anyone can identify those who are abusing this system, I hope they will lodge a complaint; don't let the few ruin it for all.

[fred1]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Unfortunately, there is a problem with the Landowner licence system, regardless of abuse.

The problem is simple.

There is No written Landowner licence policy.

No government system can run without enforceable rules.



Currently, Resident allocation percentages offered to Landowners are determined ad hoc by a local biologist, typically based on individual perceptions, pressures and desires.

Without a policy, there is no ability to control expansion of the program. It is currently designed with no barrier preventing ALL Resident allocations to being distributed exclusively as Landowner licences.



Perhaps the most significant reason why Landowner licences for Antlered Mule deer are on the chopping block is because the government and the now very private consultation team have refused to address the lack of policy.

This lack of policy allowed biologists to issue too great a percentage of the allocation to Landowners, for whatever personal reasons they used to make their decisions. A fire was lit when the truth of Landowner licences became public knowledge after I became the first person outside of the government to access the data.


Now, everyone must keep in mind that ONLY Antlered Mule deer Landowner licences are being considered for elimination or reductions.
Other species are actually experiencing an Increase in allocation for Landowner licences.



Government and the now secret AGPAC consultation team are to blame for this problem.

The only way to clean up this mess is to create a Landowner licence policy.

Agreed there has to be a policy to make the landholder tag system work in a fair fashion. I have applied for and received several landowner antlered md tags over the years but only filled one, one time. I prefer to do my md hunting in a more remote area with less vehicle access available. This usually means lower hunter density. I would hate to see the program scrapped because of abuse.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Redhorse Ranch

This is welcome news, and good news for those who hunt my land, also. I hope common sense prevails. If anyone can identify those who are abusing this system, I hope they will lodge a complaint; don't let the few ruin it for all.

Just wondering if your happy with the way things are? Or, would you be agreeable to a few changes? Maybe give 2 antlerless tags instead. Maybe double priority points instead? Maybe if you receive a LO tag you must allow access to everyone?

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Just wondering if your happy with the way things are? Or, would you be agreeable to a few changes? Maybe give 2 antlerless tags instead. Maybe double priority points instead? Maybe if you receive a LO tag you must allow access to everyone?

Really???? You want to go there????

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by HoytCRX32

Really???? You want to go there????

It was one of the options that are being looked at.

Oops, just checked . It wasn't one. Thought it was.
Another option would be capping the # of L.O. tags that are available.

[Redhorse Ranch]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Just wondering if your happy with the way things are? Or, would you be agreeable to a few changes? Maybe give 2 antlerless tags instead. Maybe double priority points instead? Maybe if you receive a LO tag you must allow access to everyone?

I'm happy enough with the way things are; I'm generous here with the habitat we've maintained and it seems a landowner tag is a good way for the province to say "thank you". I don't fill the tag every year, but I do enjoy the challenge of hunting the old smart ones. I'm sorry there's abuse of the system, if I knew of any personally I would lodge a complaint.

[West O'5]

If the goal is to reduce crop damage,then Landowner tags should be antlerless only...period
If you want to hunt for trophies,put in the draw for coveted tags like everybody else.
Lots of talk on here about entitled citiots,what about entitled landowners that think they own the wildlife?Just because a trophy buck or bull spends some of its day or week or year on your property doesn’t make it livestock and yours for the taking,the wildlife belongs to all Albertans.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Well isn't that something. First I've heard of this and I do believe you but I have a hard time believing that this is common.

i

It’s more common than you think. I’ve heard of a few families doing this.
I have also run into situations where one family member “fills” his wife’s or mothers tag plus his own ....every year, year after year.

[boah]

Originally Posted by West O'5

If the goal is to reduce crop damage,then Landowner tags should be antlerless only...period
If you want to hunt for trophies,put in the draw for coveted tags like everybody else.
Lots of talk on here about entitled citiots,what about entitled landowners that think they own the wildlife?Just because a trophy buck or bull spends some of its day or week or year on your property doesn’t make it livestock and yours for the taking,the wildlife belongs to all Albertans.

There are very few zones that give out antlered elk tags. Most LO elk tags are antlerless. Seems to make the landowners happy. Should work for mule deer, especially if you give them 2 tags.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

It’s more common than you think. I’ve heard of a few families doing this.
I have also run into situations where one family member “fills” his wife’s or mothers tag plus his own ....every year, year after year.

People have been charged with wildlife offences for doing so, so yes this does happen.

LC

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Well you certainly can! You buy the license (just like land owners) and go hunting on 'your' land. Its actually a better deal cause you didn't have to pay 4500 per acre for it.

Haha, I like it.

[Dewey Cox]

I'm sure if this thread goes another 5 pages we'll find a solution everyone can agree on.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

I'm sure if this thread goes another 5 pages we'll find a solution everyone can agree on.

Good possibility but I'm not in favour of giving anyone permission to hunt my land so I can get a landowners tag. White oakleys, flat brimmed hats, pants hanging to your knees and saying " yess b'y " will be advised not to bother asking.

[West O'5]

$4500/acre??
LOL 😂 I hope for $720k that 1/4 comes with a nice lil log home move in ready.
More like $1000/acre for bush quarters.

[pitw]

Originally Posted by West O'5

$4500/acre??
LOL 😂 I hope for $720k that 1/4 comes with a nice lil log home move in ready.
More like $1000/acre for bush quarters.

$4,500 an acre would be just barely enough to get you hunting permission.

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by West O'5

$4500/acre??
LOL 😂 I hope for $720k that 1/4 comes with a nice lil log home move in ready.
More like $1000/acre for bush quarters.

Maybe where you are at, which I am guessing is up north...lot's of quarters in SW Alberta would go for $500,000+/quarter (bare land)

[moose maniac]

Originally Posted by West O'5

$4500/acre??
LOL 😂 I hope for $720k that 1/4 comes with a nice lil log home move in ready.
More like $1000/acre for bush quarters.

Peace country your hard pressed to find a bush 1/4 for less than $250 K

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by moose maniac

Peace country your hard pressed to find a bush 1/4 for less than $250 K

Ain’t that the truth.