Badger Results

[lromanchuk]

Curious to see how you guys faired at the Badger Derby?!??!

I want to hear stories of the 30 pounder you got to the hole, then lost it..

[tacklerunner]

Here's some info from another thread. Unfortunately I don't think you're going to hear many stories about the big one that got away. But people had fun.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=53638

I wanna hear the story about the 30 pounder being weighed over the hole that thrashed and took the scale and everything back home with him, but I don't think that's gonna happen either. If it did happen, I don't think I'd admit it though.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by lromanchuk

Curious to see how you guys faired at the Badger Derby?!??!

I want to hear stories of the 30 pounder you got to the hole, then lost it..

We didn't lose a 30 lber, but we did have a little excitement thinking we had a 20+ pike on the line.

My brother was fighting for a couple minutes with this pike, he'd get it close to the hole, it would dive back to the bottom, but he could never a look at it. When he finally got it to the hole, he was trying to turn it to come up the hole, but it came up sideways as they always seem to do. Only this time it was a little different. He had the pike sitting at the bottom of hole, and after a closer look, he had hooked it in the back....

Looking down the hole at it, it looked for sure like it was 18-20+lbs. So we were frantically trying to figure out how we were gonna get it up the hole. My brother couldn't maneuver the line to get the head or tail at the hole, just from where the fish was hooked.

By this time, the guys fishing just to the north of us came over to have a look a see and see what the commotion was about. Well we finally decided to drill another hole right beside the original one. And as hard as we tried to keep it from happening, the line got wrapped around the auger, but didnt break it off, and I still don't know how..... Even with the other hole, we still couldn't get it turned up the hole.

So after each of us tried to reach down the hole to grab it, one of the guys fishing to the north of us peeled off his coat, reached down, grabbed the fish, and pulled it out the figure 8 hole. Only problem was.... it was 16lbs, not the 20+ we thought it was to get us on the leader board...

Many thanks go to the guys who came over to help, and actually pulled the fish through the ice for us. We never got their names, but even though it wasn't a $$$ fish, we definitely owe them a case of beer for all their help!

[matathonman]

Hey no problem, glad we could help. I'm glad your buddy and I could get the line unwrapped from the auger without getting broke off. It was looking bad for a minute there. I told my buddy that you said thanks for dragging the fish out of the hole. He changed his shirts and was good to go.

[gramps73]

Sounds like you guys had some luck we had nothing. the fishing was slow..

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by matathonman

Hey no problem, glad we could help. I'm glad your buddy and I could get the line unwrapped from the auger without getting broke off. It was looking bad for a minute there. I told my buddy that you said thanks for dragging the fish out of the hole. He changed his shirts and was good to go.

Haha, that's quite the coincidence! Thanks again for the help. I think my brother and dad would have cried if we would have lost that fish without getting to weigh it, and without your guys' help we might have been screwed! Like I said before, I don't know how that line didn't snap when dad got done drilling that hole. Close call for sure!

Just too bad your friend jammed his arm down the hole for nothing! Good thing it decided to warm up right about then though.

[Crusty]

This fish wasn't legally hooked. It must be hooked in the mouth or immediately released, correct? Intentionally foul hooked or not the fish should be released asap. I believe I read this in the regs or derby rules I'm not sure which. (Nothing else to do the fishing was slow.)

[Dr.D]

Originally Posted by Crusty

This fish wasn't legally hooked. It must be hooked in the mouth or immediately released, correct? Intentionally foul hooked or not the fish should be released asap. I believe I read this in the regs or derby rules I'm not sure which. (Nothing else to do the fishing was slow.)

Can't anyone just say good job nice fish and let things go. Doesn't matter what you say someone is complaining. Great story glad to hear they landed the fish. If I lost the derby to a fish landed like that power to them.

[Crusty]

Was this fish hooked legal? If it was I apologize. Sure it's a great story but if this fish wasn't legally caught how the heck can that be good if it wins? I'm sorry D, I just don't see your side. (unless it was fairly caught that is. my regs are in the truck not beside me)

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by Crusty

Was this fish hooked legal? If it was I apologize. Sure it's a great story but if this fish wasn't legally caught how the heck can that be good if it wins? I'm sorry D, I just don't see your side. (unless it was fairly caught that is. my regs are in the truck not beside me)

Quite honestly, this ^^^ is dumb. It's a non issue. The fish wasn't big enough to be weighed or get onto the leader board, and as per the derby rules, the fish was immediately released after a quick pic.

It was just a funny/interesting story that I thought other people would find the same! Apparently not in your case.

If you're actually wondering or curious and asking the question because you don't know the answer, then fine. Just don't come off so bloody hostile when responding to the story.

The fish was released, we didn't win any money from it, end of story.

[Crusty]

If you guys can calm down for a sec, I am just making a point from info in the post, okay? I am not hostile. Why would I be? I'm just big on principles, law abiding ones. Funny that my question about the fish being legally caught has not been answered. With all the talk on here about C & R, poaching and abiding by the law I'm shocked at the outburst my post has received. I thought I read in the regs sunday about foul hooked fish. I could be confused about a B.C. law. I state that I'm not sure of the law in my first post. I have looked in the regs this morning and can't find anything about foul hooking. The following is an exerp from the post of the pike hooked in the back "we thought it was to get us on the leader board..." If this fish was over 21lbs. it would have been taken to a weigh in station. I assume there would have been some damage to the fish due to being hooked in the back and the weigh in folks would have noticed. So once again can someone answer the question of being legally caught? That's all I'm saying/asking, is it legal. Pretty cool story I agree. Ethical, I don't know until I know the law. I got an honest question and would like an honest answer not getting ripped for bringing the subject up would be different to say the least. I know for sure you can't please everybody on here that's a given but should I have started a new thread or what? Did not mean to offend the story just asking a question about the facts in the story.

.

[Who Da Fisherman]

I have the Badger Derby rules and they just state that the Alberta regs. must be followed. I would have treated the fish as a fish caught and weighed it in, if in the opinion of the judges they told me that it was not legally caught then that would be the end of the story. (by the way that was a great story). Now as for legally hooking the fish i have used a split rig with one hook caught in the mouth and one outside the mouth back by the gill plate. In the process of pulling him up the hook came out of the mouth but the other stayed by the gill plate would i be a fish poacher?

[Crusty]

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman

I have the Badger Derby rules and they just state that the Alberta regs. must be followed. I would have treated the fish as a fish caught and weighed it in, if in the opinion of the judges they told me that it was not legally caught then that would be the end of the story. (by the way that was a great story). Now as for legally hooking the fish i have used a split rig with one hook caught in the mouth and one outside the mouth back by the gill plate. In the process of pulling him up the hook came out of the mouth but the other stayed by the gill plate would i be a fish poacher?

I don't know.

[nicemustang]

Crusty...while you are correct quoting the regs, however I don't think they could have "intentionaly" snagged the fish. They were fishing without seeing anything down the hole and happened to snag it. That isn't illegal at all. It's illegal to go out with intention of snagging. The rule was made because poachers would cut a huge hole in the ice, sight fish, when something big came around they used big hooks to snag it. By the sounds of the story this is not what they are doing. So perfectly legal.

[Hosehead]

Originally Posted by Crusty

This fish wasn't legally hooked. It must be hooked in the mouth or immediately released, correct? Intentionally foul hooked or not the fish should be released asap. I believe I read this in the regs or derby rules I'm not sure which. (Nothing else to do the fishing was slow.)

Thanks for the heads up. None of us read the regs or even know how to fish so when people like you chime in it really helps.

[nicemustang]

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman

I have the Badger Derby rules and they just state that the Alberta regs. must be followed. I would have treated the fish as a fish caught and weighed it in, if in the opinion of the judges they told me that it was not legally caught then that would be the end of the story. (by the way that was a great story). Now as for legally hooking the fish i have used a split rig with one hook caught in the mouth and one outside the mouth back by the gill plate. In the process of pulling him up the hook came out of the mouth but the other stayed by the gill plate would i be a fish poacher?

No you are not.

[Crusty]

Originally Posted by nicemustang

Crusty...while you are correct quoting the regs, however I don't think they could have "intentionaly" snagged the fish. They were fishing without seeing anything down the hole and happened to snag it. That isn't illegal at all. It's illegal to go out with intention of snagging. The rule was made because poachers would cut a huge hole in the ice, sight fish, when something big came around they used big hooks to snag it. By the sounds of the story this is not what they are doing. So perfectly legal.

Thanks for the civil answer nicemustang. I didn't say they snagged it on purpose. Is there anything in the regs about foul hooked? Foul hooked is not intentional. There is intent when snagging.

[nicemustang]

No there isn't. Although it's all how you read into the regs. Directly from the regs:

Snagging – means attempting to catch or catching a fish using a hook:
(a) other than to induce the fish to voluntarily take the hook in its
mouth; or
(b) by intentionally piercing and hooking a fish in any part of the
body other than the mouth.
Snagging Device – means:
(a) an instrument that is designed for the purpose of snagging fish;
or
(b) hooks or lures that are altered to facilitate the snagging of fish.

It Is Unlawful to:
- Fish by snagging.
- Possess fish taken by snagging.
- Possess a snagging device while angling.

Releasing Prohibited Fish
You must immediately release every fish that cannot be legally kept
because of species, catch limit, size limit or other regulation, without
exception, even if the fish is injured or dead. When the fish is alive, you
must release it in a manner that causes the least harm to the fish.
Examples of prohibited fish are:
- a species for which the limit is 0.
- a fish smaller than the minimum-size limit.
- a fish larger than the maximum-size limit.
- a fish the size of which is protected by a slot-size limit.
- a fish that has been snagged.- a fish caught after you have already kept your limit.


As defined in these regs, a "snagged" fished is defined as something that is intentionally snagged with a "snagging device". It is illegal to keep such fish caught in this manner. But it doesn't not say that you can't accidentaly hook a fish in another place other than the mount and define this as snagging. Two different things and shouldn't be confused together. Thus it is legal as defined in these regs to possess a fish that you have foul hooked, as long as you aren't using a snagging device and it is not intentional.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by nicemustang

No there isn't. Although it's all how you read into the regs. Directly from the regs:

Snagging – means attempting to catch or catching a fish using a hook:
(a) other than to induce the fish to voluntarily take the hook in its
mouth; or
(b) by intentionally piercing and hooking a fish in any part of the
body other than the mouth.
Snagging Device – means:
(a) an instrument that is designed for the purpose of snagging fish;
or
(b) hooks or lures that are altered to facilitate the snagging of fish.

It Is Unlawful to:
- Fish by snagging.
- Possess fish taken by snagging.
- Possess a snagging device while angling.

Releasing Prohibited Fish
You must immediately release every fish that cannot be legally kept
because of species, catch limit, size limit or other regulation, without
exception, even if the fish is injured or dead. When the fish is alive, you
must release it in a manner that causes the least harm to the fish.
Examples of prohibited fish are:
- a species for which the limit is 0.
- a fish smaller than the minimum-size limit.
- a fish larger than the maximum-size limit.
- a fish the size of which is protected by a slot-size limit.
- a fish that has been snagged.- a fish caught after you have already kept your limit.


As defined in these regs, a "snagged" fished is defined as something that is intentionally snagged with a "snagging device". It is illegal to keep such fish caught in this manner. But it doesn't not say that you can't accidentaly hook a fish in another place other than the mount and define this as snagging. Two different things and shouldn't be confused together. Thus it is legal as defined in these regs to possess a fish that you have foul hooked, as long as you aren't using a snagging device and it is not intentional.

Crusty could be thinking of B.C. Regs. http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/reg...is_2009-11.pdf

IT IS UNLAWFUL TO....

pg.9 Snag (foul hook) fish (see definition, page
96). Any fish willfully or accidently snagged
must be released immediately.

pg. 96 snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish
in any other part of its body other than
the mouth. Attempting to snag fish of any
species is prohibited. Any fish willfully
or accidently snagged must be released
immediately.

[Crusty]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Crusty could be thinking of B.C. Regs. http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/reg...is_2009-11.pdf

IT IS UNLAWFUL TO....

pg.9 Snag (foul hook) fish (see definition, page
96). Any fish willfully or accidently snagged
must be released immediately.

pg. 96 snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish
in any other part of its body other than
the mouth. Attempting to snag fish of any
species is prohibited. Any fish willfully
or accidently snagged must be released
immediately.

I appreciate your post walking buffalo. At least a couple of intelligent responses, thank you both.

[Newspeak]

I don't know why everyone is giving Crusty flak.

If the fish was snagged, intentional or not, it has to be released. It's in the regs.

Hmmm.. I guess I take that back. The Regs state that you must release a snagged fish, But under the definition of snagged it says:

Snagging - means attempting to catch, or catching a fish using a hook:

A) other than to induce the fish to voluntarily take the hook in its mouth; or
B) by intentionally piercing and hooking a fish in any part of the body other than the mouth.

My question would be: Is it up to the C/O to determine if you did it on purpose or not? How would he know?

[tacklerunner]

Caught lots of Pike with 1 hook in the mouth and 1 in a fin or behind a gill or 1in the vicinity of the mouth like on top of the nose or under the chin etc; none "intentionally" though so I take it as these were all legal as I interperate the Alberta Regs. The gray area is proving that you weren't intentionally trying to "snag" the fish. However, on hard water you kinda are intentionally trying to snag the fish; It's called a hook set regardless of where the hook ends up. I think that's why there is interpretation of the Regs in AB; because of the type of fishing we do and the species.

I grew up in BC and could only remember 1 salmon in 20 years out of thousands of fish I caught which was hooked through the pectoral fin. Same with trout, halibut, cod, kokanee, steelhead; it's very rare. Thus in BC it's black & white. If it's not hooked in the mouth is doesn't count.

Huge varience in false hooksets between BC & AB especially on hardwater.

So nice catch MoFugger. No harm no "foul", pun intended. Great job, ingenuity and effort to land it. Hopefully next year it's 10 lbs heavier and you get into the money.

[enzo]

Tacklerunner, you forgot to mention in the eye also. Hook setups with more than one treble are a joke.

[nicemustang]

So we're way off topic here...but it says it all in the regs. Easily put...if you'd get a ticket you could fight it easily as long as you can prove you weren't snagging with a snaggin device.

[tacklerunner]

Originally Posted by enzo

Tacklerunner, you forgot to mention in the eye also. Hook setups with more than one treble are a joke.

That's a pretty uneducated or inexperienced opinion but it is nevertheless an opinion and you're entitled to it.

It's pretty tough to get an 8 inch bait to sit level with 1 treble or to make a herring cut plug with one hook... I could go on but I won't.

Different methods of fishing for different species require different setups or they just don't work.

And actually, I have never hooked a Pike in the eye.

Bottom line is his fish was legal, didn't matter anyway and it is a good story. This thread clarified what the regs specify regarding this topic and educated some people.

Not sure how your opinion about certain hook setups being a "joke" is justified or remotely has any relevance to the original topic of this thread or even the sub-topic it created.

[enzo]

It's an educated and legitimate sub-sub-topic.

[tacklerunner]

Start a new thread if you want to debate your point. People will be happy to share their thoughts about the topic. Many will probably agree.

I have nothing against you or your words and I agree to disagree which is cool. Just think throwing a 1 liner in the middle of a thread can be misinterperated as to what your intent is by posting it.

[Newspeak]

Bottom line is his fish was legal, didn't matter anyway and it is a good story. This thread clarified what the regs specify regarding this topic and educated some people.

Exactly. It was an excellent story that brought up some interesting questions. How can it be off topic if its a question directly related to the story?
I always thought it had to be released, and now I know (Courtesy of nicemustang) that I misread the Regs. Seems more than just myself were unclear on the issue.

Heard a good story and learned something, makes for a good thread. It's good to ask questions. Think some people are just being a little over defensive....

[Newspeak]

Bottom line is his fish was legal, didn't matter anyway and it is a good story. This thread clarified what the regs specify regarding this topic and educated some people.

Exactly. It was an excellent story that brought up some interesting questions. How can it be off topic if its a question directly related to the story?
I always thought it had to be released, and now I know (Courtesy of nicemustang) that I misread the Regs. Seems more than just myself were unclear on the issue.

Heard a good story and learned something, makes for a good thread. It's good to ask questions. Think some people are just being a little over defensive....

[MoFugger21]

Look I'm not defensive about anything. But when your reaction to the story is immediately:

Originally Posted by Crusty

This fish wasn't legally hooked. It must be hooked in the mouth or immediately released, correct? Intentionally foul hooked or not the fish should be released asap. I believe I read this in the regs or derby rules I'm not sure which. (Nothing else to do the fishing was slow.)

its a little ridiculous if you ask me. To me that doesn't come off as being curious about the interpretation of the regulation. It's not like I said "we had a camera watching this big pike but could never hook it up, so instead we snagged it with an 18ft gaffe. And after we got it up the hole, we chopped it into pieces, and ate it raw right there on the ice". If crusty was truly curious about the reg/law, something along the lines of, "Don't quote me on this, but I was wondering... yada yada yada", seems like a more appropriate phrasing. Not, as it comes off to me, accusing me, my bro, and my dad of wrong doing, by as he claimed, not asked, hooking a fish illegally. It came off as hostile. Apparently that wasn't the case, but thats how I took it, so for that I apologize.

I've combed through the reg's myself, and as far as I can tell nicemustang and tacklerunner have it correct. As long as youre not intentionally trying to snare or snag the fish, it shouldnt matter where the fish is hooked, its considered legal. Whatever yours, mine, or the guys down the road ethics are, is a completely different thing than what the interpretation of the regulation is.