More recovered TSX's

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I like the looks of the one on the left. In my opinion the ttsx or the tsx bullets are too hard and lack the hydrostatic shock you get from higher expansion bullets. I try to be a lung shooter and sometimes those Barnes zip right through like stabbing the animal with a pencil, like shooting them with a field point.

This ^ is a myth, and a pet peeve of mine (no offence kurt). I can assure you they are nothing like a field point. I shot two deer this year with 243 80gr ttsx, and one with a 308 165 gr trophy copper. All had toonie sized entrance and exit holes (you really couldn't tell the difference), red jelly for lungs, and enough blood on the ground that a blind man could follow it by feel. All died in 5 seconds.

Hydrostatic shock is a product of bullet expansion and velocity. Not fragmentation. If you want to hope tiny lead fragments kill and leave enough for you to follow.... good luck. I'd rather have a 1.5-2 x caliber diameter hole in both lungs and two holes spilling blood on the ground. No splashes, no bloodshot meat, no survivors. As of yet, no recovered bullets.

[Coiloil37]

I've only ever found one, a 180 tsx from my '06. I shot a deer going away from me and up a small hill at about 25 yards. The shot took him a bit behind the front legs and the bullet penetrated from the poi straight up the spine until coming out of the spine at his neck and I found the bullet under the skin on his throat. Impact velocity would of been roughly 2800 fps and it penetrated about 2.5-3' of spine before stopping.











Compared to some 165 accubonds from the same rifle, muzzle velocity a hair over 3k and these were 250-400 yard shots, all bullets found under the skin on the off side and typically weigh 115-120 grains after recovery.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 3blade

This ^ is a myth, and a pet peeve of mine (no offence kurt). I can assure you they are nothing like a field point. I shot two deer this year with 243 80gr ttsx, and one with a 308 165 gr trophy copper. All had toonie sized entrance and exit holes (you really couldn't tell the difference), red jelly for lungs, and enough blood on the ground that a blind man could follow it by feel. All died in 5 seconds.

Hydrostatic shock is a product of bullet expansion and velocity. Not fragmentation. If you want to hope tiny lead fragments kill and leave enough for you to follow.... good luck. I'd rather have a 1.5-2 x caliber diameter hole in both lungs and two holes spilling blood on the ground. No splashes, no bloodshot meat, no survivors. As of yet, no recovered bullets.

No offense taken, but I've had quite different experiences with them. Shot moose elk and deer with them and none have dropped like when I shot them with my ballistic silver tips.

I recovered 2 140gr TTSX bullets this year, one from a moose, one from a deer, both shot through the boiler room, neither died too quickly.

This was from the moose



This was from the deer



I know death is a result of shot placement, but in my experience it happens a lot quicker with expanding bullets than the ones which don't expand, given the exact same shot placement. If none expanding bullets killed the same they wouldn't use them on the battlefield.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

No offense taken, but I've had quite different experiences with them. Shot moose elk and deer with them and none have dropped like when I shot them with my ballistic silver tips.

I recovered 2 140gr TTSX bullets this year, one from a moose, one from a deer, both shot through the boiler room, neither died too quickly.

This was from the moose

This was from the deer

I know death is a result of shot placement, but in my experience it happens a lot quicker with expanding bullets than the ones which don't expand, given the exact same shot placement. If none expanding bullets killed the same they wouldn't use them on the battlefield.

They will never "bang flop"...that's not how a ttsx kills. It kills by punching a large hole (usually two) and causing blood loss.

Both your bullets expanded and performed exactly how they are designed to. What range/ estimated impact velocity was the deer hit at? That looks like it was going slow, but still did its job.

I understand your POV though...I started with partitions and had a similar experience. Both deer I shot (lung/offside shoulder), I found the bullet in the offside hide and no blood trail, deer did not die particularly quick, but lots of blood shot meat. Regardless of their reputation, I won't use them again. As always, YMMV.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 3blade

They will never "bang flop"...that's not how a ttsx kills. It kills by punching a large hole (usually two) and causing blood loss.

Both your bullets expanded and performed exactly how they are designed to. What range/ estimated impact velocity was the deer hit at? That looks like it was going slow, but still did its job.

I understand your POV though...I started with partitions and had a similar experience. Both deer I shot (lung/offside shoulder), I found the bullet in the offside hide and no blood trail, deer did not die particularly quick, but lots of blood shot meat. Regardless of their reputation, I won't use them again. As always, YMMV.

The moose was about 300yds, deer was around 400yds.

I lost the biggest buck of my life, partly due to the TTSX. Ultimately it was my own stupidity not to immediately walk up to my deer to make sure it was dead, but I shot him broadside/quartering towards me, broke his front left shoulder and he dropped immediately, didn't move for 5min. Being the biggest buck I had ever seen I wanted to share the experience of walking up to him with a couple friends who watched the whole 1-1/2hr long stalk and eventual shot from over a mile away. Ten minutes into my walk towards my friends I got the text "he got up". At that point it was too late (past legal shooting time) to get a follow up shot, but from the way the deer was hunched up and limping we figured he would be dead just inside the bush by the next morning. None of us could imagine he would have crossed the Athabaskan river... but he did!

Ever since I have had a bit of resentment towards the Barnes bullets.

[Pathfinder76]

Barnes bullets didn't shoot the deer in a non vital spot. You did. End of story.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

Barnes bullets didn't shoot the deer in a non vital spot. You did. End of story.

It was a vital shot, I would suspect back of lung, liver area. The deer no doubt died as a result within 24hrs. Had it been a ballistic tip there would have been more internal damage and the deer would have died sooner. Had I been shooting my 280 with ballistic tips rather than my 300wsm with TTSX I would have that buck on my wall today, no doubt about it.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It was a vital shot, I would suspect back of lung, liver area. The deer no doubt died as a result within 24hrs. Had it been a ballistic tip there would have been more internal damage and the deer would have died sooner. Had I been shooting my 280 with ballistic tips rather than my 300wsm with TTSX I would have that buck on my wall today, no doubt about it.

Did you do an autopsy on this once lost deer?

Until there is irrefutable proof.........................!

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Did you do an autopsy on this once lost deer?

Until there is irrefutable proof.........................!

Yes

[huntingfamily]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

Compared to some 165 accubonds from the same rifle, muzzle velocity a hair over 3k and these were 250-400 yard shots, all bullets found under the skin on the off side and typically weigh 115-120 grains after recovery.

Love those Accubonds!
Wish they were more available...

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by huntingfamily

Love those Accubonds!
Wish they were more available...

They're a lot more available now then they were a few years ago. Online they're easy to find.

I choose the accubond when I don't need as much penetration and I'm happy taking good shot angles. I find they give me a larger wound channel at the expense of penetration, I don't trust them to break heavy bone in most weights/calibers and I almost never get a exit wound so I don't get as good of blood trail (if required).

I choose Barnes when I want max penetration, an exit wound and want to be able to shoot for vitals at any angle. I've found the wound channel slightly smaller but it's always all the way through the animal and if I hit the shoulder it's been bang flop every time. I prefer a quartering to shot, bullet on the leg to initiate expansion and a cross lung wound channel. Not that those are the only shot I'll take but they've been some very dramatic kills for me.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Yes

Yes what?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

Yes what?

What Chuck? What can you tell me about it? Where was the impact Chuck?

See, the thing is, I know. Why? Because I was there. Why else? Because I've been hunting for over 35yrs, I've killed several big game animals with several different guns in several different calibers. I have seen animals die from marginal shots, and I've seen animals go for miles with a blown out lung.

Tell me this Chuck, can an animal live with a hole in just one lung?

Yes,

I think sometimes you think you know more about a situation you have no clue about. End of story.

[.257Weatherby]

what sold me on ?Barnes bullets was a picture of a rather large Mule deer in the relaoding book.
A guy smiling with this large buck and load data and in the picture this large hole one could put a fist through.
Recovered critter with no need for a follow up shot...
through and through lung shot and a happy shooter and a cut tag.
Enough of a reason for me to wanna use them.
Rob

[catnthehat]

Several very respected gun writers over the years have stated that there is no
" perfect" bullet and there are exceptions to the rule of anything , especially when it comes to "bullet failure"
Bottom line is unless person can actually autopsy a carcass there is no way to tell what happened once a bullet hit an animal .
Cat

[Beeman3]

I am in the process of building a light weight 6.5x47. Planning on shooting the 127 lrx. I have never shot an all copper bullet. Have usually shot bergers and some hornady. So far this has been a good thread and is making me feel better about trying the 127 lrx. Most of these Barnes have expanded perfect. However there are some that didn't. But no two shots/hits will ever give the same results.

[cujo1969]

Shot my bull moose with 130gr federal fusion 270 win complete pass through lung shot.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by cujo1969

Shot my bull moose with 130gr federal fusion 270 win complete pass through lung shot.

Wow, that's a super cool story

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What Chuck? What can you tell me about it? Where was the impact Chuck?

See, the thing is, I know. Why? Because I was there. Why else? Because I've been hunting for over 35yrs, I've killed several big game animals with several different guns in several different calibers. I have seen animals die from marginal shots, and I've seen animals go for miles with a blown out lung.

Tell me this Chuck, can an animal live with a hole in just one lung?

Yes,

I think sometimes you think you know more about a situation you have no clue about. End of story.

If you hit one lung you missed. End of another story.

By the sounds of it I've shot 20 or 30 times the amount of big game animals with Barnes bullets than you. I've yet to see one come back to life that was hit where it counts.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

If you hit one lung you missed. End of another story.

By the sounds of it I've shot 20 or 30 times the amount of big game animals with Barnes bullets than you. I've yet to see one come back to life that was hit where it counts.

Lol, Chuck I read your write up on your whitetail hunt! I sure hope you had better shot placement on the other 300 big game animals you've killed. I guess if you poke enough holes in em' any bullet will work.

Here's something to think about, Barnes bullets claim to fame is their ability to retain energy. That's great for penetration, but the laws of physics state that if energy is retained it is not being transferred. Now take a ballistic tip, its claim to fame is its grenade like properties, where it does not retain energy but rather transfers its energy to the animal you hit. Hydrostatic shock.

The ballistic tip might be a good option for you

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Lol, Chuck I read your write up on your whitetail hunt! I sure hope you had better shot placement on the other 300 big game animals you've killed. I guess if you poke enough holes in em' any bullet will work.

Here's something to think about, Barnes bullets claim to fame is their ability to retain energy. That's great for penetration, but the laws of physics state that if energy is retained it is not being transferred. Now take a ballistic tip, its claim to fame is its grenade like properties, where it does not retain energy but rather transfers its energy to the animal you hit. Hydrostatic shock.

The ballistic tip might be a good option for you

My Whitetail is in the freezer.

Holes in the right places kill. Energy transfer doesn't.

Here is another revelation for you. I've killed more game with ballistic tips than Barnes bullets.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

My Whitetail is in the freezer.

Holes in the right places kill. Energy transfer doesn't.

Here is another revelation for you. I've killed more game with ballistic tips than Barnes bullets.

How old are you? Like 250???

The more you talk about this, the less I believe you and the more it's apparent you don't know much about how bullets work.

Next you're going to tell me you've never lost an animal in all your 200yrs of hunting......

I've worked with guys that knew everything and weren't scared to let everyone know about it, the more they told me about it, the bigger my smile got.


Here, read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by chuck

My Whitetail is in the freezer.

Holes in the right places kill. Energy transfer doesn't.

Here is another revelation for you. I've killed more game with ballistic tips than Barnes bullets.

holes? how many shots did it take?

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by Beeman3

I am in the process of building a light weight 6.5x47. Planning on shooting the 127 lrx. I have never shot an all copper bullet. Have usually shot bergers and some hornady. So far this has been a good thread and is making me feel better about trying the 127 lrx. Most of these Barnes have expanded perfect. However there are some that didn't. But no two shots/hits will ever give the same results.

I don't know what kind of velocity a case like that will kick up, but I'd be very tempted to try Accubonds vs LRX. I don't think the velocity would warrant the lrx, but this also depends on distance. I think an Accubond, or even a plain jane cup n core, would be much more compatible with a cartridge of this size.

My bad, I just researched it, looks like it may be able to hit 3000fps, in which case I'd say the LRX is an excellent choice, especially on the bigger animals.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

holes? how many shots did it take?

English. That is how that sentence is structured.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

How old are you? Like 250???

The more you talk about this, the less I believe you and the more it's apparent you don't know much about how bullets work.

Next you're going to tell me you've never lost an animal in all your 200yrs of hunting......

I've worked with guys that knew everything and weren't scared to let everyone know about it, the more they told me about it, the bigger my smile got.


Here, read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock

I'm younger than you.

I'm smart enough not to blame my errors on inanimate objects.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by chuck

English. That is how that sentence is structured.

a hole in the right place kills?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

I'm younger than you.

I'm smart enough not to blame my errors on inanimate objects.

I'm don't doubt you don't blame your errors on inanimate objects, it's your preposterous claims I question, or maybe you consider gophers and coyotes big game animals?

In any case, if you care to go back and read, first off I said for the most part it was my own stupidity that resulted in me losing that animal, but to be honest I have not had to shoot an animal more than twice since I was about 14, so usually after I shoot and the animal drops, it's game over. What I did say is that if I had shot it with a ballistic tip rather than a TTSX that animal would have been dead right there, and I blame the terminal performance of the ttsx for not killing as quickly as a ballistic tip would have in that situation.

I don't know how old I look in my pics, but I assure you I am nowhere near 251. For you to kill over 350 big game animals I can only assume you are 200+ years old, you have spent your entire life traveling the globe hunting all species of big game animals, your idea of big game is different than mine, or you have no clue how many big game animals I've put in my freezer. I'd be willing to bet that I've seen as many animals killed as you think you've shot, I've got a bit of experience in the field, enough to form an educated opinion on different types of bullet performance.

If you were there that day, you might have some meat behind your opinion, but you weren't, you have absolutely no clue about what went down that day, yet you butt in with your opinion as if it were gospel. Even if you have killed 400 big game animals..., with that kind of experience you should know that being shot in the exact same place with two different bullets can end up with two very different results.

[Pathfinder76]

Kurt. How many big game animals have killed with Barnes bullets?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

Kurt. How many big game animals have killed with Barnes bullets?

Now you ask? Probably would have been a good idea to ask that right off the hop. I would say between 6-8 with TSX and TTSX. I have witnessed in the neighborhood of anther 15-20 over the years guiding as well. In calibers ranging from .257 to .338

Now a more pertinent question, how many animals have you witnessed me shoot? Or better yet, where did I hit the deer in question?