Break in - to brush or not to brush?

[EZM]

Break in procedures say shoot, clean, shoot clean for the first 10 shots but I have a pragmatic question .....

Do you really need to run the brass brush down every pass? Or would a wet patch followed by a clean one or two be OK than maybe the brush every 3rd shot or so?

Logical thought to me says the reason the break in procedures stipulate this is to ensure a cool down while the barrel goes through it's initial warming and normalising (cooling) cycle. Once a barrel goes through several heating and cooling cycles it stabilises and reduces the possibility of any deformation if the process is "controlled" never too hot and never too quickly.

I'm not an expert - so I'm asking ....

I know I will get there will some fouling, but on every shot I'm ripping a brush through the bore? really?

[Nyksta]

2 rifles did not break in, 2 rifles did. All Same calibre. 1 rifle from not broke in gets 0.5moa groups, other 1.25moa.... broke in guns, 0.75moa and 1.25 moa...

Your steel barrel is much harder than a brass or nylon brush. Just be cautious of banging a steel rod around in there.

I think an oilsoaked patch followed by a dry patch is good enough for getting any fragments of fresh machined bits out. Do it well before shooting the first round. A few after each first couple shots. But dont waste too much time or ammo.

[260 Rem]

BI will not make a bad barrel into a good barrel... The purpose is to address early fouling by discouraging any copper build-up. When done properly, a barrel (the throat) should be more resistant to fouling and since copper is an enemy of “accuracy” ... well, the cleaner the barrel, the better it should shoot.
We had a good discussion here on AO earlier this summer and although some might not have known, one of the BI proponents contributing to the thread is a world class competitor in SBR and scored solidly among the top dogs at the “worlds” last fall in New Zealand. Given that pedigree, there is a pretty good chance he knows what he is talking about.
I came away from the discussion with the impression that unless the shooter/equipment is capable consistently good groups (say in the 3’s) they will not notice the benefit of BI. However, the consistency needed to bring the 2’s into the teens will benefit from BI.
Now, regarding the question about “brushing” IIRC he indicated that nylon brushes may be too soft to remove tough copper.

[sailor]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

BI will not make a bad barrel into a good barrel... The purpose is to address early fouling by discouraging any copper build-up. When done properly, a barrel (the throat) should be more resistant to fouling and since copper is an enemy of “accuracy” ... well, the cleaner the barrel, the better it should shoot.
We had a good discussion here on AO earlier this summer and although some might not have known, one of the BI proponents contributing to the thread is a world class competitor in SBR and scored solidly among the top dogs at the “worlds” last fall in New Zealand. Given that pedigree, there is a pretty good chance he knows what he is talking about.
I came away from the discussion with the impression that unless the shooter/equipment is capable consistently good groups (say in the 3’s) they will not notice the benefit of BI. However, the consistency needed to bring the 2’s into the teens will benefit from BI.
Now, regarding the question about “brushing” IIRC he indicated that nylon brushes may be too soft to remove tough copper.

From that discussion
I learn that without 1500$ bore scope I will not know if copper fouling in barrel or not. What should poor people do who have spent last few thousand on rifle and scope and lost job?
I will definitely put my new rifle away till better times but is there cheaper alternative?

[260 Rem]

I don’t have/use a borescope so I just do the shoot/clean cycle assuming there is copper in the throat...watching the color of the patches. Typically, after 5 or so cycles (Kreiger barrels) the number of patches it takes to go colorless is much reduced.

[HW223]

Originally Posted by sailor

From that discussion
I learn that without 1500$ bore scope I will not know if copper fouling in barrel or not. What should poor people do who have spent last few thousand on rifle and scope and lost job?
I will definitely put my new rifle away till better times but is there cheaper alternative?

If you don’t have access to a bore scope Shoot one and clean for about ten rounds then shoot some three shot groups and clean for another ten - fifteen rounds , costs nothing to do and there is no down side ,

[Don_Parsons]

No brushes for me after switching to Wipe Out & the Accelerator,,, Bore Shine is another awesome cleaner.

[303carbine]

I have seen some shooters over clean their rifles causing premature wear from improper methods.
I bought a new Remington 700, I then cleaned the bore with a good degreaser and cotton swabs.
After I was sure that all factory lube was gone as well as grease, I took it out and sighted it in.
After about eight shots, it was sighted in, I fired the rest of the box for group and went home.
I pushed a cotton patch with Hoppe's on it through it, all I got was a bit of carbon from the burnt powder, I checked the patch with a big magnifying glass to check for copper fouling and found none.
The best way to break in a barrel is to degrease the bore and shoot it, scrubbing the hell out of it with brass brushes will cause wear and grief.

[sailor]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

No brushes for me after switching to Wipe Out & the Accelerator,,, Bore Shine is another awesome cleaner.

You will be laughing but I always use wife's steamer -put some good soap first in barrel then steam all dirt out of barrel (actually wife brooked telescopic so I was told to throw it out in garbage bin but I sneaked it in my room and replaced some hose to fit rifle barrel)and after steaming barrel wipe with nylon brush but first winding cotton on it and a bit oil and barrel sparkles like mirror.
But now I am upset that I missed copper foil-it could spark as well

[wind drift]

Brushes are evil unless used for electric motors, hair, cleaning carpet & toilets and painting. Resist. A good copper solvent will do the trick.

[Buckhead]

Barrel BI does virtually nothing to the barrel itself.
One is only smoothing out the throat (the transition from the chamber to the rifling).
This may or may not result in an increase in accuracy.
And I have always used a brass brush.
If you think you are going to shoot the rifle more accurately if you follow a break-in procedure - then you might.

[Buckhorn2]

I bought my first bolt action rifle in january. Just got around to shooting it today. Did not follow a break in procedure. Whoever did the boresight was out to lunch i was 10 inches high 6inches left at 100. Dialed the scope and landed 2 shots almost 3inches high. Then setup 6inch gong. Rang it at 290 yards with no misses and called it good. If i can do that ill assume the gun is more accurate than me wether the barrel is broken in or not.


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[Don_Parsons]

Originally Posted by sailor

You will be laughing but I always use wife's steamer -put some good soap first in barrel then steam all dirt out of barrel (actually wife brooked telescopic so I was told to throw it out in garbage bin but I sneaked it in my room and replaced some hose to fit rifle barrel)and after steaming barrel wipe with nylon brush but first winding cotton on it and a bit oil and barrel sparkles like mirror.
But now I am upset that I missed copper foil-it could spark as well

Yuppers, I totally agree, firearms cleaning solvents have come along ways from the days of the stone-age times.

If people like to use brushes, more power to them, the rest of us get to reap the rewards of simple, easy, and fast.

My F rig shoots good with a bit of grit, actually my hunting unit won't see a cleaning till after the season raps. I'm sure that the final Dec / Jan target shoot will push out any crud that fell in there over the year.

Just like the old guy said, only clean the pipe if the group down range shows signs of opening up, other than that,,, go have some fun shooting.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

No brushes for me after switching to Wipe Out & the Accelerator,,, Bore Shine is another awesome cleaner.

I also use wipe out but not during barrel break in, I’d still be breaking in the barrel on the rifle I bought last December!

I always follow manufacturer recommendations on barrel break in, and I always use a brass brush. As stated above, it helps smooth the tooling burrs from manufacturing before the copper can build up in them, making it harder to clean.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by 303carbine

I have seen some shooters over clean their rifles causing premature wear from improper methods.
I bought a new Remington 700, I then cleaned the bore with a good degreaser and cotton swabs.
After I was sure that all factory lube was gone as well as grease, I took it out and sighted it in.
After about eight shots, it was sighted in, I fired the rest of the box for group and went home.
I pushed a cotton patch with Hoppe's on it through it, all I got was a bit of carbon from the burnt powder, I checked the patch with a big magnifying glass to check for copper fouling and found none.
The best way to break in a barrel is to degrease the bore and shoot it, scrubbing the hell out of it with brass brushes will cause wear and grief.

the reason you found no copper fouling in your hoppes patches is because hoppes doesnt get rid of copper fouling.

unless you were using hoppes copper solvent.

[DanOO]

There is no one way to get a barrel clean enough for its intended use.
Break in is a worthwhile effort, reading patches is only going to tell you so much of what is in your barrel.
Many bore solvents will do the job, some are better then others, most folks have a tendency to use far to little solvent in their cleaning efforts.
The topic of brushing vs. not brushing is mainly an opinion of what we hear or think we see.
As stated you will only know what any given barrel is like with the use of a bore scope.
So the question of using a brush is hard to validate without looking at your bore with a scope.
New barrels do have a tendency to copper more as they are broke in or the bore steel is burnished.
Here is an opinion based on using a bore scope, bronze brushes do produce better results then nylon brushes, this is due to the higher bristle count and the given stiffness of the bristle. The nylon brush uses a larger diameter bristle and to give it stiffness this does not allow these bristle to get to the corners of the grooves as consistently. This along with the fewer bristle count.
If using a brush remember to neutralize the chemicals off the brush after cleaning to prolong the useful life of it.

[marxman]

bronze brush or carbon buildup take your choice and dont try to fake it with nylon it will just make you think its clean till you try the bronze after