Radiant or force air for detached garage?

[Double-Eh]

My detached garage is 24’x22’x8’. Walls are insulated, ceiling is not yet, but that’s in the works for this summer. While I install everything I plan to put in some heat as I want to work on my vehicles, quad, etc year round.

I’m intrigued most by radiant tube heat for its fast heat recovery and how things will be truly warm to the touch. But is my 8 foot ceiling too low? I’d want to put it at the back, furthest from the double garage door. Is this the way to go or is forced air a better bet? What size of whatever heater should I look into for my garage?

[brendon444]

Originally Posted by Double-Eh

My detached garage is 24’x22’x8’. Walls are insulated, ceiling is not yet, but that’s in the works for this summer. While I install everything I plan to put in some heat as I want to work on my vehicles, quad, etc year round.

I’m intrigued most by radiant tube heat for its fast heat recovery and how things will be truly warm to the touch. But is my 8 foot ceiling too low? I’d want to put it at the back, furthest from the double garage door. Is this the way to go or is forced air a better bet? What size of whatever heater should I look into for my garage?

Forced air. Way faster to heat up if not keeping it heated at constant temperature. Will heAt 5c to 20c very quickly. Also 8ft roof is quite low for radiant you will burn the paint off truck roof. My vote is forced air and I have had both.

For that size garage 50k btu would work great. I built a 24x22 with 8ft roof and I used 50k mr. heater forced air.

[Trochu]

I personally like forced air. I know one guy who has in floor heat, not that you asked about this, and snow melt from the vehicles increases the humidity to the point he has mold issues. Father-in-law has radiant heat, and he has the opposite issue, puddles never melt and his hockey equipment is still wet the next night. Both utilize secondary systems to get air movement. I utilize an oversized furnace, keep it at 10C, and when I go out there just turn it up and it's ready to go in about 3 minutes. Forced air works really well for my situation and was cheap. Picked up the furnace on Kijiji for $200 I believe.

[CaberTosser]

An 8' ceiling is too low for a radiant heater. It would melt your brains. Get a compact unit heater. Don't fool yourself into thinking bigger is better so far as BTU's go. For a garage that size a 30,000 BTU unit is perfect.

Going with a used household furnace is a false economy as they take up so much space.

[Arty]

Coal.

Hey, it's a garage right? Heat quality would be great, radiated from a massive cast iron or steel appliance from an otherwise dead-space corner. Great place to toss all the wood cuttings and a little sawdust too.

Once an anthracite burn is established it can be charged every 12 hours, and requires very little attention. No pilot light or flame control to break, no expensive electricity bill, no gas piping, no gas bill, no noise. Coal is still the cheapest energy source out there.
http://www.doddscoalmine.com/

24 GJ/ton.

[Tungsten,]

Too small of space for radiant,unit heater is the only way.You can tuck them right up in a corner so you don't loose too much space.You'll need 45K min.30K units only get warm,45 and up you get Hot air.

[Catman1]

I’ve had a radiant tube in my garage since day 1(2010), I’ve never had any issues. I run it down the side of my garage. Truck on the opposite side, Sled, quads and Harley under the heater. Never had a issue at all , and my garage roof is low. That heater is crazy efficient


My brothers house that is right beside mine has the the gas furnace style and doesn’t work near as good , doesn’t heat up the objects inside the garage.


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[MK2750]

Wow! 50,000 BTU, illegally installed house furnace, radiant tube with 8 ft ceilings, over sized equipment from Kijiji??? With advice like this it is a wonder there is a garage standing in Alberta. You need a permit, you need a ticket, you need an inspection, heaters are cheap!

PLEASE CALL A PROFESSIONAL

Here is the correct answer, not that it seems to matter.

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

An 8' ceiling is too low for a radiant heater. It would melt your brains. Get a compact unit heater. Don't fool yourself into thinking bigger is better so far as BTU's go. For a garage that size a 30,000 BTU unit is perfect.

Going with a used household furnace is a false economy as they take up so much space.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Wow! 50,000 BTU, illegally installed house furnace, radiant tube with 8 ft ceilings, over sized equipment from Kijiji??? With advice like this it is a wonder there is a garage standing in Alberta. You need a permit, you need a ticket, you need an inspection, heaters are cheap!

PLEASE CALL A PROFESSIONAL

Here is the correct answer, not that it seems to matter.

Got a radiant tube heater in my garage. Had it for over 10 years, works great. 8.5' ceiling. It's been permitted, professionally installed, inspected, and there has been absolutely zero issues with it. Two step heating 25,000 & 50,000 btu's.
Can easily, safely and legally be done just need proper spacing from combustibles, etc.
http://calcana.com/best-garage-heate...-combustibles/

[CaberTosser]

Catmans photo example reduces available shelving space, if lots of floor to ceiling perimeter shelving is desired then a compact unit heater beats radiant for not limiting your storage options. His gas line is also not to code as CSST tubing is not to be used as an appliance connector, special flexible appliance connectors are required for that and they even have to be installed in a specific configuration.

Keep in mind when weeding through the answers posted here that MK2750 and I are both heating professionals, the other advice is from the collective of ‘Bubba’. Coal? Really? Someone wants you to put a coal stove where you want to store your gas cans? Not only that but they figure there’s such a thing as a dead corner in a tiny 22’ x 24’ garage? Think about the odds it takes for such an individual to still be alive at this point....... MK2750 was also 100%correct about getting a licensed and insured professional in for the installation, they’ll pull the requisite permits and you’ll get the peace of mind of an independent inspection by your local authority; Bubba installations won’t seem very affordable after the fire dept shuts off the hoses and your insurance company denies your claim due to the Bubba factor. Unless the gas line is there already there should be a permit for the gas line and a permit for the heater.

[Big Grey Wolf]

A point to consider if you go with high efficiency forced air the water may freeze in waste water tube when furnace off.

[Sledhead71]

Another vote for radiant, the one in may attached garage is 40,000 and I use it as part of the house more than a garage. Quiet and very comfortable heat even being tucked up along the common wall... I do have a 4" desk style fan running in the winter directing heat at the furthest corner of the garage where the overhead door is... Found a little air movement kept all areas even..

When I built my 4500 sq/ft shop I opted for both radiant and forced air, both sized to heat building as stand alones... Radiant runs 99% if the time and my gas bill keeping this building at 70 degrees is less than my home...

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by YYC338

Got a radiant tube heater in my garage. Had it for over 10 years, works great. 8.5' ceiling. It's been permitted, professionally installed, inspected, and there has been absolutely zero issues with it. Two step heating 25,000 & 50,000 btu's.
Can easily, safely and legally be done just need proper spacing from combustibles, etc.
http://calcana.com/best-garage-heate...-combustibles/

And by the time you get your clearances, you can't even park a 4x4 in your garage. You lose over 4 feet directly and 12-18 inches each way, but do as you like. Most people would rather use the space for storage.

[CaberTosser]

Some people love advising what works for them but not everyone has the same needs. Take for instance someone with a roof box on their car, you don’t want that parked right under an infrared heater as it will warp. Some people think of their current vehicle and garage use but don’t consider how others use their garages. For me I imagine full perimeter shelving and a wall for toolboxes and workbenches. Then I allow for clearance to the tallest vehicle that can possibly get in through the overhead door, not just what the current owner drives (consider future owners & how resale value can be affected by unusual applications, sometimes it’s necessary to help people from devaluing their own property with unusual requests). I also consider standing in front of the workbench for long periods, if an infra-red heater was right above the workbench in a low ceiling garage it would be uncomfortably hot on your head while doing your woodwork, mechanics, etc.

Speaking of woodworking, it’s a good idea to get an appliance that you can directly pipe incoming combustion air into. If it is getting its combustion air supply from outside it shouldn’t get filed up with sawdust. Keep your heaters clean if you make a lot of sawdust. If you have a furnace with a pilot light, shut the pilot light off before blowing the unit down with compressed air. Keep that equipment clean & maintained!

A proper garage can be a great selling point for a house, larger & very well appointed garages might even be the primary draw for some buyers.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by MK2750

And by the time you get your clearances, you can't even park a 4x4 in your garage. You lose over 4 feet directly and 12-18 inches each way, but do as you like. Most people would rather use the space for storage.

You've been in my garage right? How did you miss the Chev 2500HD Duramax 4dr 4X4 parked in there then? (beyond required clearances of course).
As has been said in other posts, different strokes for different folks. You want a big heated storage unit, go for it!
Myself, I consider that space too valuable for that and prefer to use my garage for my hobbies, working on vehicles, woodworking, etc. (yes, it does have outside combustion air).

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Wow! 50,000 BTU, illegally installed house furnace, radiant tube with 8 ft ceilings, over sized equipment from Kijiji??? With advice like this it is a wonder there is a garage standing in Alberta. You need a permit, you need a ticket, you need an inspection, heaters are cheap!

PLEASE CALL A PROFESSIONAL

Here is the correct answer, not that it seems to matter.

I feel some of this was directed at me, and if so, would be interested to hear how my furnace is illegally installed and what is wrong with purchasing a furnace from Kijiji?

[MK2750]

Radiant heaters heat like the sun. They require a direct straight line to the object heated. A radiant tube in a garage with only 8 or 8.5 foot ceilings does not allow the height for the direct line to reach the entire garage. You would in fact only be able to heat a small portion of the garage. So basically, if they are not pointing at an object, they do not warm it and the angle/heat radius is controlled by law.

In a standard 2 car garage there in not room to legally park a 4x4 with any descent height. If your garage is bigger than that, then you certainly can but the back half of your garage would still be cold. If the hood of your truck is more than 4 feet, you can not legally park under your heater. I have seen them damage paint at 5 and 6 feet.

The one pictured above, if it is installed on the side wall, would be failed by most inspectors. Not only is it plumbed illegally, but it lacks the warning chain/signs AND a vehicle parked under it would be damaged. It does not matter to most inspectors whether or not you plan to park a vehicle there.

Most reputable contractors would not install a radiant tube heater in a garage with less than 10 foot ceilings.

Anyway, the OP has good advice and some bad. Rather than argue the point, he should contact a couple of reputable contractors and confirm that information with the local inspector(s).

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I feel some of this was directed at me, and if so, would be interested to hear how my furnace is illegally installed and what is wrong with purchasing a furnace from Kijiji?

There is nothing wrong with purchasing a proper unit heater from Kijiji. Most people are buying house furnaces and using them in the garage. This is illegal as house furnaces must be ducted and are dangerous to use in this application.

You also mentioned over sizing the unit. Nothing is more inefficient and damaging to an appliance than over sizing.

Codes are in place for a reason and a licensed professional should always be used. Most can sell you a heater at little more than the Kijiji specials as it is the labor, venting, permits and expertise that you are paying for AND it is money well spent.

[Sooner]

I have worked under radiant heaters in the body shop. Holy hot . My friend installed a PA heater in his new garage. Hangs form the roof, up out of the way. Sweet little heater.

When I bought my house(20+yrs ago) the garage came with a smaller house furnace. I hope to replace it this summer with a nice forced air model that hangs form the roof.

Go forced air.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Radiant heaters heat like the sun. They require a direct straight line to the object heated. A radiant tube in a garage with only 8 or 8.5 foot ceilings does not allow the height for the direct line to reach the entire garage. You would in fact only be able to heat a small portion of the garage. So basically, if they are not pointing at an object, they do not warm it and the angle/heat radius is controlled by law.

In a standard 2 car garage there in not room to legally park a 4x4 with any descent height. If your garage is bigger than that, then you certainly can but the back half of your garage would still be cold. If the hood of your truck is more than 4 feet, you can not legally park under your heater. I have seen them damage paint at 5 and 6 feet.

The one pictured above, if it is installed on the side wall, would be failed by most inspectors. Not only is it plumbed illegally, but it lacks the warning chain/signs AND a vehicle parked under it would be damaged. It does not matter to most inspectors whether or not you plan to park a vehicle there.

Most reputable contractors would not install a radiant tube heater in a garage with less than 10 foot ceilings.

Anyway, the OP has good advice and some bad. Rather than argue the point, he should contact a couple of reputable contractors and confirm that information with the local inspector(s).

Very Bias opinion....

The statement about reputable contractors not installing radiant tube heaters in garages less than 10' is as bad as your comment about paint damage.

You may wish to look at the temp cycle used to cure automotive paint during manufacturing and look at the temp of the radiant tube as distance increases from the source.. Besides, the surrounding air temp will allow for balancing of direct heating from any heat source. Plastics are more subjective to heat to be honest as they will possibly deteriorate with poor conditions.

It should be noted that the tube heaters are twice as efficient as the forced air heaters, a big factor when considering future heating costs and rate of return on this appliance.

[Purple Farmer]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

An 8' ceiling is too low for a radiant heater. It would melt your brains. Get a compact unit heater. Don't fool yourself into thinking bigger is better so far as BTU's go. For a garage that size a 30,000 BTU unit is perfect.

Going with a used household furnace is a false economy as they take up so much space.

Here's the pro answer. FYI Caber helped me diagnose and fix a problem with my Radiant tube heater via a couple of pm's a few years ago. It would probably would have cost me $500 just to get a guy to come and look at it, so Thanks again Stuart.

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Radiant. I built my 24x28 with 10' walls about 7 years ago. I have a 55000btu radiant heater. Its all you need.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Ice Fishing Maniac

Radiant. I built my 24x28 with 10' walls about 7 years ago. I have a 55000btu radiant heater. Its all you need.

The OP has 8' walls

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Very Bias opinion....

The statement about reputable contractors not installing radiant tube heaters in garages less than 10' is as bad as your comment about paint damage.

You may wish to look at the temp cycle used to cure automotive paint during manufacturing and look at the temp of the radiant tube as distance increases from the source.. Besides, the surrounding air temp will allow for balancing of direct heating from any heat source. Plastics are more subjective to heat to be honest as they will possibly deteriorate with poor conditions.

It should be noted that the tube heaters are twice as efficient as the forced air heaters, a big factor when considering future heating costs and rate of return on this appliance.

You think I am against radiant tube heaters? We install 100s of them in the right application.

You don't think paint can become damaged or discolored from fading if outside of factory recommended distances? Just last week a guy showed me two fairly new sleds that looked like they were left out in the sun for 10 years. Both had the graphics pealing and were on his trailer well outside the safety area.

Call 20 contractors and I bet you the vast majority will agree with everything I have written on this thread. I would be shocked if any will install a radiant tube heater with less than 10 ft ceilings and if they do now they will be wishing they hadn't after the complaints come in.

Bias opinion? I couldn't care less what appliance you install in your garage as long as you are not on my block. I do residential furnaces and ACs, garage heaters are done by the service department. They are so busy they are turning away work, mostly costly redos from those that think they know better.

I'm done here but you guys carry on. I come on the forum to forget about HVAC for a while not argue about. You can be wrong here and still win the internet, if I am wrong I at best lose my job and at worst cause serious damage or injury.

[CaberTosser]

What MK2750 said X two, amateur opinions vary but expert opinions tend to say the same thing. People are answering what the have in totally different applications as though that will apply to the OP's situation. MK2750 and I have to back up and warranty our installations and we would hear back if customers weren't happy or if issues arose. We would also have to correct deficiencies if the inspector found any. Take the free advice from amateurs with a grain of salt, what worked for their taller structures won't work for an 8' garage. Personally I can't fathom building one with anything less than a 9' ceiling so that a person can stand up and manouvre 8' sheets of plywood around the table saw. My own garage will be higher yet as I'll be building to acommodate a taller service van such as a high roof Ford Transit or Mercedes Sprinter.

[Catman1]

Actually my furnace is not illegal, i hired a professional company to install it and get the permit , the city of Edmonton came to my house and inspected it. Everything is fine. No issues since 2010.


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[Double-Eh]

Well I certainly was not looking to start a kerfuffle over this, but as has been said, I’m looking for what is most likely to suit my needs and dimensions of my garage.

Certainly I’d prefer radiant for its efficiency, recovery, etc. But I’d rather not get a sunburn or have damage to the things I only seek to shelter from the winter.

By the sounds of it all, 30k btu forced air should be the winner.

And no... no coal. Or wood burning. Or livestock body heat.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Catman1

Actually my furnace is not illegal, i hired a professional company to install it and get the permit , the city of Edmonton came to my house and inspected it. Everything is fine. No issues since 2010.


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I agree, "professionals" come on here and seem to know more about my garage than I do. Where it's too hot, where it's too cold, what's illegal, what must be burning up in my garage. And guess what, wrong on all accounts, but hey they're the professionals and we are just the unwashed masses who should hang on their every word.

It isn't rocket surgery and many can figure it out and make it work effectively, safely, efficiently and legally. For starters the heater doesn't have to hang over the hood or any other part of a vehicle and the reflector doesn't have to point straight down.

[Arty]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

[...]Coal? Really? Someone wants you to put a coal stove where you want to store your gas cans? Not only that but they figure there’s such a thing as a dead corner in a tiny 22’ x 24’ garage?
[...]

Well now, I wasn't expecting everybody to run out and start installing coal hoppers down a chute from the ceiling.

However, I'd be interested in knowing how many gasoline storage sheds you install gas flame heaters or non-intrinsically safe switched electric heaters into. Especially when they get hot enough to fry plastics with.

See, the point of the warm cast iron from a corner-stove is to provide a constant convective and soft radiant heat suitable for a smaller space.

A commercial appliance of stamped aluminum that has a sharp point source of heat whether gas-fired or electric resistance element has to have some buffer to spread that heat. That's why NG is used with forced air or flowing liquid. Or you have minimum distances from radiant elements. Or you could sometimes use lots of stone, brick or cast iron. Otherwise even 10,000 BTU would cook you like a hot dog while your backside freezes.

A simple solid-fuel heater for a work space is not such a bad idea, as long as it's set up and operated right. Just like any other HVAC equipment. Sometimes if there's an appropriate energy source or other resource available it makes a lot of sense just to use that. For example, plants will use steam turbines as a primary mover for pumps instead of electricity if the steam main is already right there for something else, but they'd have to run cabling and trays across half the plant and install additional switches just for one electric motor.

If your heavy iron coal appliance is vented and fed from outside, it would be clean as electricity. But a lot cheaper. Or safer in a dusty or fumed environment. If you thought about what you were doing and researched it, building a custom installation with that technology would be safe and relatively straight forward. Way different from some ad-hoc fluid-fuel or electric appliance installation which needs all sorts of installation codes to control it.

This really isn't about coal. Lots of other fuel or heat solutions might be viable with stone or cast iron. But I wouldn't want anybody to feel their job would be jeopardized by alternates.