$$$ whitetail allocations $$$

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by sns2

IMO, there should be absolutely no outfitter allocation for any species, in any wmu, in which a resident has to apply in a draw to get a licence. I would bet every penny that I have that an overwhelming majority of Alberta resident hunters would feel this same way. This would likely limit outfitters to general whitetail, waterfowl, upland game birds, bull elk, and moose in a very few number of northern WMUs. If there are undersubscribed licences, then outfitters could have an equal shot at them.

nevermind

[elkhunter1234]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Anyone know what the average price of a rifle whitetail allocation is nowadays?

Check out Harry McCowen website, he has some Alberta WT allocations listed.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSb...GBRqFl354D00w-

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter1234

Check out Harry McCowen website, he has some Alberta WT allocations listed.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSb...GBRqFl354D00w-

Thank you!

[Norwest Alta]

I think that many on here are wasting their resources by trying to fix something that don't need to be fixed. Getting our residency requirements straightened out would be a start to fixing things.

Another thing that might need to be addressed is when enough is enough. We predominately eat elk in our household. I've found that one elk and a deer will feed my family of five so why does someone need to shoot a elk,moose,3 white tails,mule deer and a antelope. I would suspect that some are greedy.

I live reasonably close to a Indian reserve and very seldom do I see all year hunting being done. The native hunting that does go on here generally happens in August. Many of the elders are to old to hunt and the young ones couldn't be bothered.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I think that many on here are wasting their resources by trying to fix something that don't need to be fixed. Getting our residency requirements straightened out would be a start to fixing things.

Another thing that might need to be addressed is when enough is enough. We predominately eat elk in our household. I've found that one elk and a deer will feed my family of five so why does someone need to shoot a elk,moose,3 white tails,mule deer and a antelope. I would suspect that some are greedy.

I live reasonably close to a Indian reserve and very seldom do I see all year hunting being done. The native hunting that does go on here generally happens in August. Many of the elders are to old to hunt and the young ones couldn't be bothered.

So you want residents to police themselves?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I live reasonably close to a Indian reserve and very seldom do I see all year hunting being done. The native hunting that does go on here generally happens in August. Many of the elders are to old to hunt and the young ones couldn't be bothered.

Certain treaties do not match Provincial borders and certain reserves situated in Saskatchewan excercise their treaty rights in Alberta.

LC

[nube]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

So if you could, say use the outfitters allocation for Antelope, would you ? Or do you just want the choice to use it ?

Silver sage sells there hunts for $4500 US. That would cost you about $6,000 Canadian.

Because if you want, for about half that you could drive 4 hours further south and hunt then every year 👍

One thing I have noticed is there are very few that really spend much for money on outfitted hunts in other countries or even out of province. Even if guys could there would be very few actually buying a tag from an outfitter here in Alberta.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Certain treaties do not match Provincial borders and certain reserves situated in Saskatchewan excercise their treaty rights in Alberta.

LC

I was talking to a friend today who just shot a Muley in BC, he said Justin says it's Canada wide. White guy, red hair, got his rights though. I have another friend 6'-6", blue eyes, blond hair, looks like a Viking, got his rights too, was out elk hunting about two weeks ago, not sure how he made out.

The government is just full of good ideas.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by nube

One thing I have noticed is there are very few that really spend much for money on outfitted hunts in other countries or even out of province. Even if guys could there would be very few actually buying a tag from an outfitter here in Alberta.

This has nothing to do with non resident priorities in some WMU's in this province.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by nube

One thing I have noticed is there are very few that really spend much for money on outfitted hunts in other countries or even out of province. Even if guys could there would be very few actually buying a tag from an outfitter here in Alberta.

Oh I know, was just making a point. Residents can use outfitter quota in BC if they want to pay for it, they don't.

[Pathfinder76]

I wonder how much money residents would have to raise to buy back all outfitter allocations? I wonder if we can start that groundswell?

[nube]

It's Dam near impossible to find a guy to go hunt Audad or Antelope in the states and those are cheap hunts lol As usual a lot of whining going on again. I get why but things will not change from what I see. Ive just decided I have to work more and plan in advance to go do the hunts I want to do. If part of that is making a few extra bucks here and there to make it happen and go out of province then so be it

[nube]

Originally Posted by chuck

I wonder how much money residents would have to raise to buy back all outfitter allocations? I wonder if we can start that groundswell?

lol If you want to start with my Bird camp I'm all for it.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

I wonder how much money residents would have to raise to buy back all outfitter allocations? I wonder if we can start that groundswell?

You're trying to paddle across the ocean with a toothpick.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You're trying to paddle across the ocean with a toothpick.

We have just heard about allocations for sale. I'm all for a $10 increase in tag or wildlife certificate prices to start buying these back.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by sns2

I hope I am not coming across as begrudging you your living. I'm not at all. There are many days where I wish I were doing what you are. You didn't make the rules, you're just playing by them. I just don't agree with all the rules

I honestly think that the majority of the anti-outfitter rhetoric comes from disgust at how APOS seemingly refuses to get rid of the bad actors in your profession.

I don't. There's lots that could be, and should be changed with the whole system.

But I also think it's a viable industry that helps support thousands of families across western Canada. Now I know that means nothing to those that don't earn a living from, but to us it means a lot.

Much like oil and gas, forestry, mining or any other industry. To those that make a living from it, it's very important, but many people would like to see it all end.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

We have just heard about allocations for sale. I'm all for a $10 increase in tag or wildlife certificate prices to start buying these back.

Average price for a whitetail allocation is probably in the $10,000 range.... for one. Better add a couple more zeros to your donation.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Average price for a whitetail allocation is probably in the $10,000 range.... for one. Better add a couple more zeros to your donation.

How many resident licenses are sold in this province each year?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

How many resident licenses are sold in this province each year?

Definitely not 6.5 million, which is a conservative number for the cost to buy out the outfitter allocations at $10 a head!


Have a look at the numbers, is $65,000,000 worth about 1800 animals a year province wide non resident aliens take?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Definitely not 6.5 million, which is a conservative number for the cost to buy out the outfitter allocations at $10 a head!


Have a look at the numbers, is $65,000,000 worth about 1800 animals a year province wide non resident aliens take?

Five year plan. Done.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

Five year plan. Done.

Better check your math Chuck, it's more like a 25yr mortgage.

For 1800 animals a year. Consider that LICENCED Alberta residents take about 43,000 animals a year, is there much difference if it's 43,000 or 45,000? Consider the revenue brought into Alberta from non resident aliens right now, say a bit over $40,000,000. Your heart might be in the right place but when you look at the numbers it's not hard to tell why our government allows outfitting. It's not because the outfitters are whining.

Think about how many animals are taken by "rights" and then think about how much revenue is made from that. I think the number of animals is much higher, and I know the dollars generated is about 7.99999 digits less.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

I don't. There's lots that could be, and should be changed with the whole system.

But I also think it's a viable industry that helps support thousands of families across western Canada. Now I know that means nothing to those that don't earn a living from, but to us it means a lot.

Much like oil and gas, forestry, mining or any other industry. To those that make a living from it, it's very important, but many people would like to see it all end.

I here ya,but some guys don't understand it's way of life for some families,there's bad eggs in everything in life.Spend the cash to get rid of the bad ones and lets the honest ones provide a service for those willing to drop the cash ,but make them pay and keep the ham and beaners at home and it will go better,the biggest problem in all of Canada is we give our resources away to cheap,if they want a prize buck pay or stay home ,plus in our areas if there were no outfitters the poaching would triple,good outfitters are good steward's of the land ,most may fine that hard to believe,but it's the truth at least where I come from and I am sure there is some very honest good folks kicking around in alberta.Sell it all so you can shot more,ya right.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by JD848

I here ya,but some guys don't understand it's way of life for some families,there's bad eggs in everything in life.Spend the cash to get rid of the bad ones and lets the honest ones provide a service for those willing to drop the cash ,but make them pay and keep the ham and beaners at home and it will go better,the biggest problem in all of Canada is we give our resources away to cheap,if they want a prize buck pay or stay home ,plus in our areas if there were no outfitters the poaching would triple,good outfitters are good steward's of the land ,most may fine that hard to believe,but it's the truth at least where I come from and I am sure there is some very honest good folks kicking around in alberta.Sell it all so you can shot more,ya right.

Please explain...

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Better check your math Chuck, it's more like a 25yr mortgage.

For 1800 animals a year. Consider that LICENCED Alberta residents take about 43,000 animals a year, is there much difference if it's 43,000 or 45,000? Consider the revenue brought into Alberta from non resident aliens right now, say a bit over $40,000,000. Your heart might be in the right place but when you look at the numbers it's not hard to tell why our government allows outfitting. It's not because the outfitters are whining.

Think about how many animals are taken by "rights" and then think about how much revenue is made from that. I think the number of animals is much higher, and I know the dollars generated is about 7.99999 digits less.

Kurt. I'm talking about buying them back as they become available!

[Little red riding hood]

Originally Posted by chuck

We have just heard about allocations for sale. I'm all for a $10 increase in tag or wildlife certificate prices to start buying these back.

Oh, don't worry! You'll see the increase! But it won't buy anything back.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

Kurt. I'm talking about buying them back as they become available!

Still a pipe dream. The numbers are right there in front of you. (The revenue numbers I posted are just a guess based on experience of the average money spent by non residents while here hunting).

A more realistic goal would be for you to get your finances together and buy out your local outfitter in the zone you hunt. This will get rid of those pesky non residents, but it won't do a thing for your draw priority.

Or move to the states and hunt here every year as a non resident, probably the most economical option.

When you look at those numbers remember that the roughly 1800 animals taken by non resident aliens (based on 2012 numbers) includes all species, bears, deer, elk, moose, etc. now you have to think that at least 75-80% of those 1800 animals are whitetail deer and bears, not exactly the target market your looking to save. I would venture to say that only about 20-25% of animals taken under the "rights" law are whitetail deer and bears, the rest would fall into your priority draw tag only category.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Commercial fishing ended with a pen stroke....other things can too, outfitting certainly has a place but it should come after resident opportunity.

When resident opportunity decreases other stake holders should have their opportunity decreased in the same proportions.

LC

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Commercial fishing ended with a pen stroke....other things can too, outfitting certainly has a place but it should come after resident opportunity.

LC

And with all the trophy hunting push back as of late, outfitters could be first in the cross hairs.

[elkhunter11]

The people with the most control over much of the outfitting in Central and Southern Alberta, are the landowners. If the landowners refused to give permission to outfitters, it would greatly effect the outfitters available hunting territory for some species. The pronghorn and mule deer allocations would be worthless if the outfitters had no place to hunt. I do know several landowners that don't allow outfitters or subsistence hunters access, but they are only a small fraction of landowners.

[hiway mike]

Around 390 allocations currently for sale or lease in alberta.