Lease Land

FiveO · #1 12-06-2007, 11:19 AM

Man am I ticked. I got refused access to 13 quarters of grazing lease this morning. I informed the leasor that he couldnt refuse reasonable access he thought different. This guy has some of the best land in 336 and gave me the same BS last year well not going to take it so I called the land office and spoke with one hell of a nice guy. The land guy is going to contact this nimrod and set him straight, I told him I want him fined and the land guy said if he didnt cooperate he would be fined.
Lets see what happens.

TheClash · #2 12-06-2007, 11:21 AM

FiveO..sorry to hear about that. that sucks. but i am glad to hear that rather than being some sort of vigilante or ignoring the leaser..that you followed the proper chain of command. good on ya.

Dick284 · #3 12-06-2007, 11:23 AM

Unfortunatly un less the Leasor caves,(after the talk to the land guy) it will go to arbitration, and by the time that gets worked out your season will be over.
But none the less let us know how it shakes out.
It could proove interesting.
Especially if a local newspaer got wind of the decision, and it made it into print. (wake up call)

FiveO · #4 12-06-2007, 11:40 AM

I told the Land Guy I want him charged and will not rest until he is set straight. If it is to late for this season well there is always next and he will face a fine for his poor judgment.

#5 12-06-2007, 11:43 AM

If he has his cattle on the land he is allowed to restrict you access.

FiveO · #6 12-06-2007, 11:54 AM

He doesnt hace cattle on all 13 Quarters. This guy is just a dink.

#7 12-06-2007, 11:58 AM

I feel for you 5-0. But if this guy is a dink, all he has to do is pasture 13 cows. 1/quarter. And he doesn't have to give access. I hope you win your battle!!!!

Jamie · #8 12-06-2007, 12:00 PM

Take him to town!!
Please keep us updated on what happens

Jamie

ram crazy · #9 12-06-2007, 12:10 PM

If it was a dry year and the fire hazard was high he can keep people out as well. Some lease holders have good reason to keep people out, because there are some idiots out there that think they can drive all over the place tearing up good grass land and cutting fences. I do sympathize with them. My brother-in law has some lease land and has had these kind of problems, and it gets old real fast.

#10 12-06-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ram crazy

If it was a dry year and the fire hazard was high he can keep people out as well. Some lease holders have good reason to keep people out, because there are some idiots out there that think they can drive all over the place tearing up good grass land and cutting fences. I do sympathize with them. My brother-in law has some lease land and has had these kind of problems, and it gets old real fast.

There is nothing that say's the leaseholder has to give vehicle access.
Foot access should never be denied on lease land. As long as personal info is exchanged.

Fudd! · #11 12-06-2007, 12:22 PM

Here's an overview of the process if you're interested..

http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/lands/using...owchart800.jpg

Fudd!

FiveO · #12 12-06-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700TI

I feel for you 5-0. But if this guy is a dink, all he has to do is pasture 13 cows. 1/quarter. And he doesn't have to give access. I hope you win your battle!!!!

Can leaseholders deny access whenever livestock are on the lease?
If livestock are not impacted by the visit, leaseholders are expected to provide access. Leaseholders are expected to follow the intent of this legislation, which is to balance the right of recreational users to access with the leaseholder's need to protect the land or livestock from possible harm. Moving a few cattle from one pasture to another to prevent recreational access is an example of not following the intent of the legislation.

I will not rest until this guy gets what is coming to him. He F'D with the wrong guy.

#13 12-06-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiveO

Can leaseholders deny access whenever livestock are on the lease?
If livestock are not impacted by the visit, leaseholders are expected to provide access. Leaseholders are expected to follow the intent of this legislation, which is to balance the right of recreational users to access with the leaseholder's need to protect the land or livestock from possible harm. Moving a few cattle from one pasture to another to prevent recreational access is an example of not following the intent of the legislation.

I will not rest until this guy gets what is coming to him. He F'D with the wrong guy.

It all depends on who is interpreting. If the guy is a dink, he will find loopholes.
I like your last line!!!!!! You may just change the process.

Dakota369 · #14 12-06-2007, 01:42 PM

This may be wrong, but I thought all cattle had to be off of lease land by Oct.01/07, and only horses are allowed to be wintered over......

#15 12-06-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota369

This may be wrong, but I thought all cattle had to be off of lease land by Oct.01/07, and only horses are allowed to be wintered over......

This may be correct for lease land in the forestry.

Okotokian · #16 12-06-2007, 01:50 PM

I got denied access on a number of leases. The reason? "We have let enough hunters on already"... I thought that was pretty lame but what are you gonna do? I didn't want to force a confrontation. I just smiled, said "thanks", and left. I figure I'll just come back earlier next year, like May, and ask for permission. If I get the cold shoulder then there is more than enough time to push things further. Personally I think the legislation is toothless.

FiveO · #17 12-06-2007, 01:56 PM

Just got off the phone with the Land Guy and he got no were with this guy so we are putting in a formal dispute and I asked again that he be fined the $2000.00. The Land guy said he has never had a lease holder not allow access after speaking with them and he has over 400 leases.

So I guess I will be the first out of his office to go through the steps to get access to what is already yours and mine to enjoy.

#18 12-06-2007, 02:04 PM

Good for you for following through Five0...keep us updated.

Okotokian · #19 12-06-2007, 02:06 PM

Good for you. I wonder if anyone has ever really been fined. If a few were handed the max, I bet the word would get around the ranching community real fast that the regulations were for real and give a few people a pause before they just blew hunters off.

FiveO · #20 12-06-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Good for you. I wonder if anyone has ever really been fined. If a few were handed the max, I bet the word would get around the ranching community real fast that the regulations were for real and give a few people a pause before they just blew hunters off.

No one has yet to be fined but I will see to it that this guy is first. The rules are fairly new.

#21 12-06-2007, 02:42 PM

.

outlaw'd · #22 12-06-2007, 02:57 PM

good luck FiveO...............but I doubt anything will come of it.

Waxy · #23 12-06-2007, 03:06 PM

Good on you FiveO. I've was tempted to do the same myself a couple years back, and just haven't got back to the area for it to be an issue for me again.

Someone has to carry the torch and get the precedence set. A litle media coverage of a positive result wouldn't hurt either.

If I were a betting man, I'd place your odds somewhere in the neighborhood of most of the opponents of the New England Patriots - but upsets happen.

Waxy

gonefishin · #24 12-06-2007, 03:15 PM

Good job FiveO.... hope evrything works out for you.

nekred · #25 12-06-2007, 03:36 PM

Instead of fining....

The best way to go would be to request to have the leased land reallocatated?!.....since he is unreasonably denying access to another stakeholder.

Good Luck....

Deerme · #26 12-06-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiveO

Man am I ticked. I got refused access to 13 quarters of grazing lease this morning. I informed the leasor that he couldnt refuse reasonable access he thought different. This guy has some of the best land in 336 and gave me the same BS last year well not going to take it so I called the land office and spoke with one hell of a nice guy. The land guy is going to contact this nimrod and set him straight, I told him I want him fined and the land guy said if he didnt cooperate he would be fined.
Lets see what happens.

Five-0...this wasn't Jackpine was it?

Walleyes · #27 12-06-2007, 04:01 PM

Sort of dealt with the same thing this past fall. There is a piece of rarely used land 1/2 mile from my house.. I say rarely used because for almost 2 years there was no livestock on it..The land consists of 2- 1/4s logged out bush.. I had permission to hunt it with the previous lease holder.. 3 years ago the lease was turned over to a new lease holder, I never did bother to find out who the new guy was because they never used it.. We continued to hunt on it as normal. This past summer the lease holder puts cattle on it.. But I never got a chance to talk to him.. So early this fall the boys are in there grouse hunting and the lease holder comes along and quite rudely kicks them off ( they were on foot).. About a month later I see the lease holder in the neighbourhood as he was looking for his lost bull, I should mention that I vaguely know this man,, anyways I asked him for permission to hunt the lease after he pulled his livestock off and he came up with just about every excuse and denied me access.. I quite calmly restated my comment and changed it from a question to a statement and informed him that I was "going" to be hunting that piece of property once his livestock was gone.. He quickly stated that he would decide who used his property.. I reminded him that he was using public property and that his turn was done and it was now my turn.. I requested that we talk to the Fish and Game boys about it.. His attitude soon changed once he realised he was not able to bullsh!t anyone..

The boys and I had a great time as usual hunting that piece again this fall,, wonder what happened to that lease holder I see him up town often but he stays pretty quite...

Suka · #28 12-06-2007, 04:38 PM

Thanks Five0, Please let us know the outcome.

Okotokian · #29 12-06-2007, 04:41 PM

I wonder if different types of hunters create different kinds of problems, or whether the pressure of big game hunters is just that much higher?

I've hunted upland game for years, and I found that landowners rarely said no to my requests for access. My success rate was at least 80%. Then I start big game hunting this year and the percentage is completely reversed (at least in 312 - 310). I get almost an almost continual "no" The first "Yes" I got was actually from a landowner who had already given me access to his land (a different piece) for partridge earlier in the year. He was honestly surprised and pleased that I had come back to him to ask if I could hunt deer too. His parting comment was "and if you see any coyotes, shoot them too, OK?" LOL

LongDraw · #30 12-06-2007, 05:14 PM

Five0,

Great to see you following through on this. I had a similar situation when the new act was introduced, now I hunt on the lease every year with no issues.

I understand where leaseholders are coming from with their concerns/complaints, but the guys who are going through the proper channels are not the problem.

As much of a problem with guys who abuse leases by not getting permission are the leaseholders who are *****s about denying access by giving all kinds of BS excuses.

I know of a couple of leases that let you in to kill a cow elk, but no bulls! One year I will say I am cow hunting and kill a big bull and the leaseholder cannot do anything about it....... Thinking about this gets me ****ed!!!