Lease Land

I know of a couple of leases that let you in to kill a cow elk, but no bulls! One year I will say I am cow hunting and kill a big bull and the leaseholder cannot do anything about it....... Thinking about this gets me ****ed!!!

That wouldn't happen to be in 312 would it?

[LongDraw]

No sheep it is not.

I'd kill a cow... oops I didn't see the 320" rack; sorry

Since when does it matter what activity your doing on the lease. As long as it's legal. Access is the issue, not hunting. Once you have access for recreational activity, you can hunt any legal game you want. Tell the leaseholder your going fishing, if you happen to see a bull, all the better.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by 700TI

Since when does it matter what activity your doing on the lease. As long as it's legal. Access is the issue, not hunting. Once you have access for recreational activity, you can hunt any legal game you want. Tell the leaseholder your going fishing, if you happen to see a bull, all the better.

I would think for fishing the only reason they could keep you off is because of a fire ban. But honestly I would think most would allow fishing because they have no financial interest in fishing.

Unfortunately in the case of hunting if there is cattle on the quarter you want to access they can keep you off.

I'm going to let this one go now, it boils me too much just thinking about it. I went throught the whole process a few years ago. Unfortunately there are loopholes, however most leaseholders that want to give no access step way over their rights, with the majority of the public saying nothing.

Just try to get access to Coppithornes lease that one outfitter is actively hunting. I don't want to turn this into a rant against outfitting, but its hard not to when they can sew up so much public land all under the premise of the Ag disposition act.

They hunt it, as well as outfit on it, IF they grant access they try to tell you what you can and cannot hunt, tell you to park at their house when you want to access the lease off of a hiway miles from their house, tell you it is all booked for the season. Bottom line is they have the vehicle to make it a P.I.T.A. to get access if they so desire.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by FiveO

Can leaseholders deny access whenever livestock are on the lease?

Yes they can, but only if the lease is being legitimately grazed.

Originally Posted by FiveO

Moving a few cattle from one pasture to another to prevent recreational access is an example of not following the intent of the legislation.

Not only is this not following the intent of the legislation, but there is specific wording in the agreement that all leaseholders sign that says they cannot leave one cow out on the lease just so they can deny public access.

[FiveO]

1

[Bull Shooter]

Five0, I'm not certain what your situation is, but in order to have a grazing lease you need to have cattle. If you don't, you might want to rethink that portion of the report. I personally think your case stands a better chance without that inclusion (i.e.- ulterior motives). Good luck. Regards, Mike

Edit - As an afterthought, I would also suggest contacting your MLA and advising him/her of your concerns and subequent actions. I would also suggest that you ask SRD to cc your MLA on all related correspondence.

[FiveO]

1

[Bull Shooter]

Five0 - Respectfully, I think you are going in the wrong direction with this now and you are going to be very disappointed. Keep it simple, and report on the incident and your direct experience(s) only. I will almost guarantee (and I do not do that lightly) that you will get absolutely nowhere trying to change the land-use descriptions for grazing leases. I think your emotions are getting the best of you now... sleep on it for a bit. Regards, Mike

Is there some leases where access does not have to be accommodated? I was just remembering a piece of grazing lease by Rocky Mountain House on/or very near the river where no hunters are allowed. It's used by the owners for lots of recreational quading and they had cattle on some land but not everywhere. I asked and was told no one could hunt, can't remember exact reasons. I met some good friends of the lease holder at a later date and they weren't allowed on either (really anti hunting). Does a link that describes how each type of lease works exist? I looked a bit and seem to remember one but can't find it. The land in question has lots of deer, nothing too exciting. If anyone has a link to the rules i'd like to read through again, thanks.

[willy]

I think five-0 came across to the landowner as he does on this post he probly caused most of the problem. Five-0 must have lotsa money to be able to afford the lease then do nothing with it.

[Rust]

Good Luck 5-0.. Hope this works for ya.

[rugatika]

FIVE-O you the man. Good on ya for going after this X$#%^&@. If they don't wanna play nice then the gov should revoke their lease. To hell with the fine. Revert the land back to crown land and wave goodbye to the greedy #&^$%@&.

Post the legal land description and we'll all take turns hunting the land/camping/fishing. Make him think he's running a provincial park.

Damnit Five-0 Look what you did to my blood pressure! Go get him, and keep us posted.

[BUD]

Originally Posted by lurch

Good on you FiveO!

I too have been denied access in the past on lease land. The excuse was that the leaseholder had his horses on the piece and that there were no Elk there anyway.

I told him that I had seen a herd of 75 Elk with several legal Bulls, and that I could tell the difference between an Elk and a Horse. Still no go.
I went through the same deal, speaking with the public lands folks.

It is very important to let them know that you (or someone else) may be interested in leasing the land as well, and as the leaseholder would have no issue with allowing everyone to hunt. If those sentiments are echoed back to the leaseholder, he may want to change his approach rather than lose risking his lease. I know that in the South end of the province that they have taken lease land from leaseholders that were difficult.

As an old pubbing buddy used to say when we were chasing girls - time and pressure.

HE seen the Elk too , count on it , but he wants them for himself and his friends.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by willy

I think five-0 came across to the landowner as he does on this post he probly caused most of the problem. Five-0 must have lotsa money to be able to afford the lease then do nothing with it.

That is a couple of big assumptions there Willy. Botom line is there are rules for both parties to follow.

[BUD]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

I would think for fishing the only reason they could keep you off is because of a fire ban. But honestly I would think most would allow fishing because they have no financial interest in fishing.

Unfortunately in the case of hunting if there is cattle on the quarter you want to access they can keep you off.

I'm going to let this one go now, it boils me too much just thinking about it. I went throught the whole process a few years ago. Unfortunately there are loopholes, however most leaseholders that want to give no access step way over their rights, with the majority of the public saying nothing.

Just try to get access to Coppithornes lease that one outfitter is actively hunting. I don't want to turn this into a rant against outfitting, but its hard not to when they can sew up so much public land all under the premise of the Ag disposition act.

They hunt it, as well as outfit on it, IF they grant access they try to tell you what you can and cannot hunt, tell you to park at their house when you want to access the lease off of a hiway miles from their house, tell you it is all booked for the season. Bottom line is they have the vehicle to make it a P.I.T.A. to get access if they so desire.

And a BIG AMEN to that , same thing on the OH ranch.

[Bull Shooter]

Maybe I've missed it, but what was the specific reason given by the leaseholder to Five0 for denying access? Are we speculating that it was cattle on the leases or do we know for certain that was the reason? Regards, Mike

[BUD]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

That is a couple of big assumptions there Willy. Botom line is there are rules for both parties to follow.

AHHHHHH ,but Willys a landowner dont ya see , possibly has some lease too.

[willy]

Yup have land and lease and its good reading all these posts on here sure makes me want to let hunters on. I know i've gave this site to quite a few nieghbours to check out. Its easy you only hear 1 side of the story on here. Go ahead keep name calling the landowners im sure it will help.

[Bull Shooter]

Yes, the rules do go both ways. Evidently, this leaseholder has 13 quarters. I would guess, and I am taking some liberties here, that if these 13 quarters are in one block it is likely perimeter-fenced versus cross-fenced. In this scenario, and providing the leaseholder had livestock on the property at the time permission was requested, would he be correct or vindicated in denying permission to access? Were there other hunters that had prior permission? I think there a lot more details needed. Regards, Mike

[SteveY66]

Five 0 did you get your cow?

[Jamie]

Willy..
Kiss my Azz.
Keep your friggen land. The last thing I want to see is anyone threatening to keep us off. The places I hunt know and respect who we are. Just as I know and respect who they are.
And if I ever figured out just what exact lease you are RENTING I can promise you I would be all over it in a heart beat. And if you didn't allow access I would be going down the same exact road the original poster has gone down.

You are just a renter.. Don't forget it.
Why do you continue to want to antagonize the situation? Why come off in this all high and mighty voice. Hunters put 100's of thousands of $$ into local economies every year. Why would you want that to leave your community?
We just split our bill up for North of Vally view this year. As a group we spent close to $3,000 in one week in the towns up there. Do you honestly think I am going to take the family on a summer trip to Fahler to see the worlds largest Bee??? NO.. I go up there for the hunting. Hunting and Hunters are important to these small community's. Don't drive us away with those types of comments.

Jamie

Originally Posted by willy

Yup have land and lease and its good reading all these posts on here sure makes me want to let hunters on. I know i've gave this site to quite a few nieghbours to check out. Its easy you only hear 1 side of the story on here. Go ahead keep name calling the landowners im sure it will help.

Willy, have you had bad experiences with hunters? I have come across leases with signs that read NO ACCESS for no reason. No cattle, or livestock of any kind. I've asked a landowner for permission and his answer was "for does only". Another one was "you'll have to pay a parking fee". Please tell me where you live. It will save me time by not asking.
I don't know why, but northern Alberta is much easier to get permission to hunt. And Sask. your told to hunt on their land (almost).

[willy]

Jamie you must have been there with five-0 to be able to pass judgement. Dont worry i will keep my comments to myself why would you want to hear from us anyway you take it as gospel what one guy says. By the way our lease is not posted or controlled in any way people just drive where they want not worth the confrontation with hunters and we hunt also.

.

[Jamie]

Willy, I wasn't overly passing judgment on what the poster said happened (though there is no evidence anything else happened). I was passing judgment on your veiled threats concerning your land (and your neighbors) and the land you rent.

I noticed you complain on another thread about people buying 1/4's for rec purposes. Cant say I blame them with attitudes like yours.

This kind of crap has to stop. Respect goes both ways. You cant expect people to respect your place and your wishes unless you are willing to respect them. Also on the same thought.. Respect is earned. And yes that applies to both sides.

We all need to work together, especially the lease holders. If we ever get a more liberal gov in power here in Alberta the sweet heart deals the lease guys have will soon come to a end. Now I am not saying that is a good thing, I am just saying as a lease holder you don't want to see a revolution happen or your lease will be worth ZILCH! And don't think it cant happen. If word got out just how much you guys are ripping off the gov there could just be a huge scrap. Imagine if the Federal gov got involved with a trade dispute with the USA. Imagine if the USA said we were subsidizing farmers unfairly in accordance with the free trade agreement. You honestly think the Feds give one rats azz about you?? Especially when you consider just how much free trade means to this country as a whole. And even though I don't totally understand all the economic implications of free trade, I see just how much the Americans complain about it soooooo.. It must be a good thing for us!
I know a pretty simple way of looking at a complex issue, but still I think my point stands.

Thanks
Jamie

[Walleyes]

See the problem you all have with this thing is you all think the lease holder actually owns any such said land,, but in fact he does not,, it is public land.. It can not be any plainer then that.. They have tried in the hunting regulations to distinguish the difference but they can not do it in plain English and they can not do it in such a way as to keep everyone happy... So.. Go hunt,, fish,, camp enjoy you're self on you're public land,, we all pay for it.. Its ours.. Enjoy...

[ram crazy]

Willy does have a point. There is two side to every story. Remember all a lease holder has to do is leave cattle on the land until hunting season is over and his problem is solved, so your better to leave it alone and move on. As mentioned to obtain a lease you would have to have cattle.

[Walleyes]

Willy does have a point. There is two side to every story. Remember all a lease holder has to do is leave cattle on the land until hunting season is over and his problem is solved, so your better to leave it alone and move on. As mentioned to obtain a lease you would have to have cattle.

Nope sorry totaly the wrong thing to do...

[scarey]

You have my support. We all talk about following the rules so keep up your efforts. I have run into some leaseholders that are resistant but have been tactful enough to succeed.
For sure make sure the newspapers and media get this story and keep a positive approach from the hunters point of view. We don.t want war with cooperative leaseholders.
KEEP IT UP!
ps, I wonder where Bud is on this thread, lol....sorry, just being a brat.