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  #91  
Old 12-10-2007, 10:23 AM
LongDraw LongDraw is offline
 
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Default From the SRD website

Location of Agricultural Lands
Does this new legislation apply to all public lands?
Alberta has about 100 million acres of public land in total. The new legislation specifically applies to about five million acres of agricultural land leased for grazing and cultivation. Only a very small amount of this land is located in the forested area of the popular foothills area of the province. Forest grazing allotments are not affected by this legislation.


How do recreational users know if the land they want to access is leased for agriculture?
Public land and private land are often intermingled. It is the recreational user's responsibility to know whether the land you wish to access is publicly or privately owned. Sustainable Resource Development has developed a website (http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/lands/using...land/maps.aspx) to give recreational users information on the location of agricultural public lands, along with contact information. The Alberta Government encourages leaseholders to place signs on their public land leases with contact information.

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Rights and Responsibilities of the Leaseholder
Does the leaseholder have to provide access to recreational users?
As the holder of a grazing lease or farm development lease, leaseholders must allow reasonable access to the land for recreation.

Leaseholders may have legitimate concerns about some recreational use. There are circumstances when access is not reasonable and under which leaseholders may restrict access or specify conditions for using the grazing or farm development lease. Generally, this would be based on protecting the land, grazing resource, or livestock from possible damage from the proposed activity, or on the timing or season of use. The Department of Sustainable Resource Development may also add conditions or restrictions on using the land. For example, these restrictions may be placed during times of high fire hazard or to protect the land from erosion.

Under the regulations, the leaseholder may deny access, or apply conditions to access, when:

access would be anything other than foot access, including bicycles, horse or other animal, or motor vehicles;
the proposed use would occur in a fenced pasture where livestock are present or on cultivated land on which a crop is growing or has not been harvested. (If livestock are not impacted by the visit, leaseholders are expected to provide access.);
access to all or part of the agricultural disposition land has been prohibited due to a fire ban as determined by either the Provincial or municipal authority;
the proposed use would involve hunting at a location that is unreasonably close to a fenced pasture in which livestock of the agricultural disposition holder are present;
the proposed use is camping; or
the proposed use would be contrary to a recreational management plan.
What happens if a leaseholder denies reasonable access?
The Department may issue an access order requiring leaseholders to allow access. If leaseholders are unsure of whether or not they can restrict access, they can call their local Lands Office. The section titled "Settling Disagreements" further on in this pamphlet deals with resolving issues that a leaseholder or a recreational user may raise.

Does the leaseholder have to tell the recreational user why he/she is denying access?
Yes. Leaseholders should explain their reason as specified under the new regulations.

Can leaseholders deny access whenever livestock are on the lease?
If livestock are not impacted by the visit, leaseholders are expected to provide access. Leaseholders are expected to follow the intent of this legislation, which is to balance the right of recreational users to access with the leaseholder's need to protect the land or livestock from possible harm. Moving a few cattle from one pasture to another to prevent recreational access is an example of not following the intent of the legislation.

How is crop on "cultivated land" defined?
Cultivated land refers to annual crops and not to hayfields.

Can the leaseholder decide that the fire risk is too high to allow access?
No. Only the province or municipality can decide the fire risk is too high to allow access.

Can the leaseholder limit the number of people who come on the land?
No, but the leaseholder can discuss the concern with the Local Settlement Officer who can limit the number of people who can come on the land. Also, in cases where there are a high number of recreational users accessing the leases, the leaseholder can ask that a recreational management plan be put in place. These plans could include restrictions on the number of people on the lease at one time. Both completed recreational management plans and limits set by a Local Settlement Officer will be included with the contact information on the web site. Call your local Lands office of Sustainable Resource Development for more detail.

What conditions can leaseholders apply to recreational access?
Leaseholders can add conditions, such as: whether there are times when you might allow vehicle access. Leaseholders have been asked through mail to provide information on how people can make contact to access the lease. If leaseholders place other conditions on access, Department staff will review them to ensure they are consistent with what is allowed under the legislation.

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Rights and Responsibilities of the Recreational User
Does the leaseholder need to be contacted before the recreational users visit?
The recreational user must contact leaseholders before accessing the land. The purpose of the contact is to provide leaseholders with information about the visit and how the visit could impact your operation. As well, leaseholders can provide the recreational user with additional information about the land.

Recreational users are required to give the leaseholder the following information:

type of recreational activity proposed;
time and location the activity will occur on the land;
number of people in the group;
name of the recreational contact person and method of contact; and
other related information that is requested, such as the names of all recreational users and license plate numbers of vehicles used to transport people to the land.
The recreational user must always:

pack out all litter;
park vehicles so the approach to the land is clear;
refrain from lighting fires without consent;
leave gates in the same state in which they were found (e.g., closed); and
not cause any damage to the lease land or the property of the agricultural leaseholder.
Are there specific rules for hunting and fishing on this land?
All of the rules under the Wildlife Act apply. Recreational users should also plan to contact the leaseholder well ahead of time in case there are specific conditions that apply to the lease.

Should the recreational user keep a record of the contact calls?
Recreational users should keep a record of their contact calls. The onus is on the recreational user to show the proper procedure has been followed to contact the leaseholder.


What about other legislation?
Provisions of other legislation continue to apply. For example, this legislation only deals with access for hunting, while other rules for hunting are under the Wildlife Act.

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Contact information
What contact information must be provided?
To ensure that recreational users contact leaseholders before they use the land, leaseholders must provide the Department with the name of a contact person for recreational access. The contact information must include a telephone or fax number, or e-mail address. Leaseholders can also specify some conditions on access, such as whether leaseholders allow motorized vehicle access. Alternatively, leaseholders can specify that they don't want to be contacted prior to a visit, but leaseholders must inform the Department of that choice.

The Department will place this information on a public website at http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/lands/using...land/maps.aspx. Before going onto the land, the recreational user must get in touch with the person leaseholders have named as the contact person for the grazing or farm development lease. If this information is not provided, the recreational user can come on the land without contacting the leaseholder.

How will the privacy of the leaseholders be protected?
The web site searches are based on land location. Searches by name or by lease number will not be possible. Leaseholders can choose not to put their contact information on the web site. However, providing the information has important benefits to leaseholders. Doing so helps ensure the leaseholder is contacted before a recreational user comes on the land. The leaseholder can also place conditions for accessing the land, such as requiring all gates be closed.

Can the leaseholder change the contact information?
Yes, the leaseholder can call (780) 427-3595 to change the information. Blank forms will also be available at your local Lands office and on the Lands web site. Once Lands has received your information, the change should only take a day to appear on the recreational access web site.

Can the leaseholder specify on the web site times that they can be contacted?
Leaseholders can specify times, for example evenings only, as long as recreational users have a reasonable chance to reach the leaseholder.

What happens if a recreational user doesn't contact the leaseholder first or comply with the conditions of use?
This may be considered a contravention of the Recreational Access Regulation, and a fine of $250. As an alternative, the Minister can require an administrative penalty to be imposed. However, if a recreational user tries repeatedly to make contact, but cannot connect with the leaseholder, the user may request approval from the Department to access the lease land under the basic conditions of use.

If there is a dispute between a recreational user and a leaseholder, either party can apply for a dispute resolution review. The dispute resolution process is described in the Recreational Access Regulation.

How long will the recreational user have to wait before getting a response from the leaseholder?
Recreational users should plan a trip well in advance and expect that it could take a few days for the leaseholder to respond to the inquiry. However, recreational users should hear something within a week of their first call.

What if the recreational user tries several times and can't get a hold of the leaseholder?
The recreational user can contact the local public lands office or call the toll free hotline at 1-866-279-0023.

Should the leaseholder keep a record of all contacts?
Leaseholders are not required to keep a record, but it may be useful to do so. An example form that leaseholders might find useful is available from Lands offices or as a PDF document (24.4 KB).

Do these rules apply to other types of agricultural dispositions?
If the land is under another type of agricultural disposition, recreational users do not have to contact the permit or license holder. These other types of agricultural dispositions include grazing permits, cultivation permits, grazing licences, authorizations to harvest hay or head tax grazing permits.

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Liability
What is my liability?
As the leaseholder, your liability is reduced if recreational users become injured while on the lease, unless the courts find that the leaseholder intentionally or negligently tried to injure a user. Recreational users are responsible for their own personal safety.

Is the leaseholder responsible for defining all hazards, including natural hazards?
As a courtesy, the leaseholders should identify anything unusual that the leaseholder may have done to the lease. For example, the leaseholder may want to notify users of any non-standard fences that may be on the property.

Does the leaseholder need any additional liability insurance?
It is generally recommended that agricultural producers carry liability insurance whether it is private or public land.

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Settling Disagreements
What happens if there is a disagreement between the leaseholder and recreational user?
We encourage both leaseholders and recreational users to show respect for each other and the land. If there is a disagreement between the leaseholder and the recreational user, either party may contact a Lands office.

Lands staff may then discuss the concern with both the leaseholder and the recreational user to find a solution. Often this type of communication and/or mediation can help to resolve any issues. If agreement cannot be reached, a dispute resolution process is available to both parties, through a local settlement officer. The process is designed to be informal and flexible, with the goal of resolving the issue quickly and effectively.

What is a "local settlement officer" and how do I reach one?
This is a new role created under the legislation to address issues on recreational access. The position will be filled with current government staff who will be trained in dispute resolution. Call your local Lands Office to talk to a local settlement officer.

Who does the leaseholder call if somebody comes on the lease without contacting the leaseholder first?
If the leaseholder wants to clarify the intent of the regulations or the legislation, contact Lands. If, however, there is any threat of violence, call the RCMP immediately.

What are the penalties for contravening the new legislation?
The focus will be on providing information to leaseholders and recreational users to encourage respect and cooperation. Recreational users or leaseholders who contravene provisions related to recreational use may be subject to a fine of up to $2000, or the minister can require an administrative penalty be imposed.
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  #92  
Old 12-10-2007, 11:04 AM
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FiveO FiveO is offline
 
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Put the form in this morning and followed the KISS principal as recommended. The next step is the lease holder will get another chance to grant access if he refuses he could be fined. I think he should be fined regardless for wasting my time, SRD time and all of your time reading the post.

I will keep you posted.
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  #93  
Old 12-10-2007, 01:37 PM
sheephunter
 
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Thanks for the update Five0...keep up the good fight!
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  #94  
Old 12-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Waxy Waxy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveO View Post
Put the form in this morning and followed the KISS principal as recommended. The next step is the lease holder will get another chance to grant access if he refuses he could be fined. I think he should be fined regardless for wasting my time, SRD time and all of your time reading the post.

I will keep you posted.
Excellent.

Keep us "posted".

Waxy
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  #95  
Old 12-10-2007, 05:13 PM
jrs
 
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Thanks LongDraw, i was missing that link.
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  #96  
Old 12-11-2007, 07:37 AM
700TI
 
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Chevy and Bud, Is this the show?
The title of the video is "Journeys in the Whaleback" Filmed and Directed for The Discovery Channel by John and Janet Foster.
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  #97  
Old 12-11-2007, 10:18 AM
cujo1969 cujo1969 is offline
 
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Seems bud doesnt want to answer 700TI. You been in 308 for lately for cow elk? We have three tags to fill in there hopefully next week.
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  #98  
Old 12-11-2007, 11:05 AM
700TI
 
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I was in there the last week of the general season. There were a few small herds, 2 bulls and 2 cows were shot. With the snow and colder weather, there should be more in there.
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  #99  
Old 12-11-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 700TI View Post
Chevy and Bud, Is this the show?
The title of the video is "Journeys in the Whaleback" Filmed and Directed for The Discovery Channel by John and Janet Foster.
I have no idea. I was hoping Bud would let the rest of us know so I could see it.
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  #100  
Old 12-11-2007, 08:30 PM
700TI
 
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Sorry, I posted wrong.

Chevy, the title was for your benefit, and the question was for Bud.
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  #101  
Old 12-12-2007, 01:19 AM
BUD BUD is offline
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Default Yup

Quote:
Originally Posted by 700TI View Post
Chevy and Bud, Is this the show?
The title of the video is "Journeys in the Whaleback" Filmed and Directed for The Discovery Channel by John and Janet Foster.
Thats the one.
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  #102  
Old 12-13-2007, 11:34 AM
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FiveO FiveO is offline
 
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Quick update: The LSO officer got the same results as myself and my first point of contact at SRD. Next step is it goes to the director level. This lease holder will not budge and im glad he hasnt I want to see him taken to the end and fined for not following the rules.

On a side note I heard through the rumor mill that the lease holder has an outfitter on the land guiding Yankes. I am trying to get someone to substantiate this so it can be handed over to SRD. This lease holder is a real piece of work.
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  #103  
Old 12-13-2007, 11:58 AM
Waxy Waxy is offline
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Thanks for the update FiveO!

Waxy
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  #104  
Old 12-13-2007, 01:06 PM
Dunezilla Dunezilla is offline
 
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Interesting subject, interesting battle. It would also be interesting to find out if he is allowing guilded hunts on the land. Perhaps making a buck or two on the side,...... no one can completetly understand how the human nature truly works.
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"Shot through the heart, and Dune's to blame. His 308 kill's big game."---Dead Doevi
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  #105  
Old 12-13-2007, 02:15 PM
MathewsArcher MathewsArcher is offline
 
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How about crown agricultural lease, leased by an outfitter, like in the Calgary Bowzone, good luck being one of the four allowed each day unless your american.

Graphic1.jpg
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  #106  
Old 12-13-2007, 02:45 PM
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Chung66 Chung66 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathewsArcher View Post
How about crown agricultural lease, leased by an outfitter, like in the Calgary Bowzone, good luck being one of the four allowed each day unless your american.

Attachment 2579
Is this a Alberta Government application?
Where do you get this info?
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  #107  
Old 12-13-2007, 02:50 PM
MathewsArcher MathewsArcher is offline
 
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Information is from the SRD website. An maximum of four recreational users has been added as a restriction (and approved by the lands agent) to the lease. To access the lease you have to contact the leaseholder (who is an outfitter) and be granted access (good luck).
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  #108  
Old 12-13-2007, 04:09 PM
bowchaser bowchaser is offline
 
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Mathews, have you talked to the land manager about getting on? What about the outfitter, what did he say? Didn't know there was any lease in the bowzone, might have to check it out for next year...I guess if a guy puts in for a few days early, they'd have trouble tying it up all season.
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  #109  
Old 12-13-2007, 04:12 PM
MathewsArcher MathewsArcher is offline
 
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I know the outfitter and don't really want to push things. Hunted this property in the past though and figure there are likely lots of similar situations throughout the province. There are actually several leases within the bowzone (most overhunted).
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  #110  
Old 12-13-2007, 04:24 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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Does the outfitter have a TON of S's in his name?

Jamie
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  #111  
Old 12-13-2007, 04:31 PM
MathewsArcher MathewsArcher is offline
 
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His contact info is in the link I provided, but yes.
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  #112  
Old 12-13-2007, 08:43 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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Well.. Not sure just how he handles his lease, but I enjoy the fellow.

Has anyone actually tried to get on? Myself I haven't because when I Bow hunted out that way we had Thousands of acres to hunt. I have shared a field with him in the past and he had no issues with that.

Thanks
Jamie
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  #113  
Old 12-14-2007, 09:54 AM
MathewsArcher MathewsArcher is offline
 
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Definately a great person, I have hunted with him and his grandson in other places and have absolutely nothing bad to say about anyone in the family. I do know 2 people who have tried to get access for 2 years but are always told it is full. I have many other places to hunt and have no reason to pursue getting access. I just see it as a flaw in the system that should be corrected.
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  #114  
Old 12-14-2007, 10:31 AM
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I ran into something interesting yesterday... was out doing some scouting for elk. I found a big chunk of land that was part private and part lease. The owner was not home but I talked to the "foreman" of the place. He was a nice guy and a hunter himself. He said there was no problem with me hunting elk on the lease land, but that the owner didn't want hunting on the owned land, had had some bad experiences... fair enough.

Then I asked about coyotes. He said that they hadn't had any coyote problems and that the owner sort of liked them around, and didn't want them hunting on any of the land, owned or leased. I didn't argue, thanked him, and left. But it struck me... if a lease holder says it's ok to hunt on the land, can they regulate which legal species are hunted? Strikes me if there are no valid reasons to restrict your access to the land to hunt one species, how can there be any to restrict your access for a different species? I'm not planning to push this at all with the owner, I was just wondering.
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  #115  
Old 12-14-2007, 10:41 AM
albertadave albertadave is offline
 
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Okotokian
No, they can't dictate what you can or can't hunt on lease land. Access and game management, 2 totally seperate issues. The lease holder has some control over access, but no control over what you species you hunt. That being said, I will totaly contradict myself and say that, in this particular instance you're doing the right thing by not hunting coyotes. Why pi$$ him off for the sake of a coyote, there's lots of other places to hunt them. Besides, if you stay on good terms with him you may even end up with access to the deeded land?
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  #116  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:14 AM
grandslamer grandslamer is offline
 
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this fighting and trying to get a lease holder fined is just plain dumb all your gonna do is tick off every one that the guy knows in the area..
causing problem for every one that hunts
the guy leases the land if he doesnt want u there just get over it and move on'
youve go`to remember the law says resonable access but the law reconizes the lease holder the one who decides what is resonable if he lets one guy in there to hunt and he feels that is resonable then thats it..
please dont take this as an attack but half the time its gonna cause more problems then it solves
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  #117  
Old 12-14-2007, 12:02 PM
AbAngler AbAngler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandslamer View Post
this fighting and trying to get a lease holder fined is just plain dumb all your gonna do is tick off every one that the guy knows in the area..
Or, the people in the area will realize they have to start following the rules. I do see your point though.
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  #118  
Old 12-14-2007, 12:11 PM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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Default hunting coyotes

OKO, one thing I have heard regarding hunting coyotes. Some coyote packs will leave livestock alone (for whatever reason). If you kill these yotes there is a chance that other coyotes that do have a taste for calves or sheep or whatever may move in. In this instance I can certainly understand the landowners point that he would like the yotes left alone unless they become a problem.
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  #119  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:05 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandslamer View Post
this fighting and trying to get a lease holder fined is just plain dumb all your gonna do is tick off every one that the guy knows in the area..
causing problem for every one that hunts
the guy leases the land if he doesnt want u there just get over it and move on'
youve go`to remember the law says resonable access but the law reconizes the lease holder the one who decides what is resonable if he lets one guy in there to hunt and he feels that is resonable then thats it..
please dont take this as an attack but half the time its gonna cause more problems then it solves
Grandslammer.. SCREW THAT!!
Its the thin edge of the wedge. We let one person away with it, next thing you know everyone will be getting away with it. Not only do we need to enforce the rules of RENTAL land, but we need to change the culture of how the RENTERS look at YOURS MINE AND OUR land. Now that last part will take some time, but the first part needs to be immediate and followed by all outdoors men.

Jamie
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  #120  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:27 PM
Mintaka Mintaka is offline
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.

Last edited by Mintaka; 12-29-2008 at 05:23 AM.
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