Lease Land

[BUD]

Originally Posted by 7 Ultra

Guys, don`t get me wrong i too am for hunting on lease land,however as a third generation rancher,and lease holder,i can sympathize with any rancher or farmer that denies a hunter access!Over the year we have lost 1/2 doz. horses (2 at one time). and a number of cows to those hunters that seem to know the difference between farm animals and wild.Gates left open,fences cut,trees cut down to get around, andgrass drove on, in the years that grass is hard to find.For everyone of you that are good about askin there are 10 that don`t and thnk they can drive anywhere they feel.The problem is that there is too many that think they have the god given right to hunt on anyones land and just don`t think. So sayin no might not bring the kids horse back but it sure makes you feel safer.And you sure hope you or the nieghbour don`t go shoot the next world record,because the next year you`ll have to have lights at every crossroads.Gaining a farmers trust is sometimes hard after all the other stuff!!!!!!

1/2 Doz horses lost . 2 at a time , and al the other stuff , all done by hunters aye , PROVE IT , wheres the pics with the bullet holes , wheres the R.C.M.P reports , talk is cheap.
Everytime l ask a landowner same ole story , horse shot , cow shot , yea , yea whatever.

Originally Posted by BUD

1/2 Doz horses lost . 2 at a time , and al the other stuff , all done by hunters aye , PROVE IT , wheres the pics with the bullet holes , wheres the R.C.M.P reports , talk is cheap.
Everytime l ask a landowner same ole story , horse shot , cow shot , yea , yea whatever.

You sure like to score points on this board don't ya. Yeah yeah , I know I am just as bad. But I direct mine to select individuals. Your like a shotgun.

[grandslamer]

bub are u serious
u tell the guy wheres the pics ,prove it ..
you have to be out of your mind the guy just stated what has happened to him and his family and u attack him and call him a liar..
you whould be hard pressed to find a farmer who hasnt been affected in the same way and yes its caused by hunters while not all hunters are idiots and porchers ..alls said poachers aree still hunters ..i am not trying to lump everyone in the same bag buy its all hunter in one form or anthor ..i am 100 percent sure that 99.99% of poeple on here are ethical and honest law abiding hunters a like any group ther are bound to be a few who r a litte shady..and nobody here is going to argue that horses and cows and other livestock are shot everyyear and its documented by f&w and rcmp

I think we should be able to hunt on leased land!!!

[thumper]

I really do sympathize with you Utra 7 - I see the damage done to leased lands as well. However, the risk of that kind of damage and behavior is part of the equation when leasing public land for grazing - you're agreeing to share it with others - and chances are, there will be some idiots in that 'others' group. You can only (almost) totally avoid those incidents by ranching on your own, deeded land only - and avoiding using public land that others have legal access to altogether.

You also have a remedy of reporting infractions and seeing individuals charged for breaking the rules. However, I've yet to see a rancher charged for breaking grazing access rules - why the double standard?

Personally, I seek out grazing leases with foot access only. That's a perfectly 'reasonable' condition that permittable by the public access agreement, and it cuts down on 'coulee cruisers' and other abuse that comes with use of motorized vehicles. Granted it can make access pretty tough on some of the larger lease-holds for the hunter, but it's an avenue open to the leaseholders.

On rare occassions, I've seen ranchers really beat up the lease land by grazing too many cattle on it, or for too long a period. Everything is grazed down to bare chopped up dirt that wouldn't support a grasshopper - let alone any wildlife. When I've reported this abuse of public land, a few gov't land managers were quick to provide excuses for the lessee like "Well it's been real dry and there's not much feed for the cows so we've permitted then to overgraze - the land will recover with a little rain in a year or 2" My response has been that it's the health of the public land that should be the land manager's first concern -not the profit margin of the lessee. That the lessee will not exceed the carrying capacity of the public land is the deal that was agreed to and that's a risk that that the lessee takes in using public land to raise livestock. Sorry if that sounds heartless, but that's the health of our public land at stake, and wildlife needs a break during droughts too.

[Jamie]

Grand.. I must say that I most disappointed in this comment

"i know we leased 2 quarter about 3 years ago we paid to lease the land buy but it was alkso up to us to fence and cross fence and maitain everthand we allowed anyone who wanted to hunt in untill guys started cutting wire cause it was closer to the truck then trying to drag to the gate and fixing fence all the time gets costly
so we file the proper forms ande left 2 of our bulls on all year that way we could control and know who was on the land"

As far as I am concerned the fence cutting should NEVER have happened.. BUT that is the cost of doing biz on subsidized land.
I wish I knew your land location.. Because you and I would be having a talk with the local lease officer.
Once again you are using OUR land.. You shouldn't get to decide who comes and who goes. If you are having such a tough time with it.. Go ahead turn it back in.
Your wrong on this one.

Jamie

[thumper]

I'd be interested to know how the annual lease cost of a full section of grazing lease compares to fair market value of rental of a full section of similar deeded land. (with the same conditions of responsibilities)
This would tell us if grazing leases are in fact taxpayer subsidies to livestock producers (as is widely assumed) or not.

When I see ranches being advertised for sale, they always mention the amount of land held under grazing lease, and this seems to add significant value to their holdings, even though they don't hold title. This would suggest that grazing leases cost less than renting similar deeded property from other ranchers.

However, I don't know for a fact if there is a value disparity.

[grandslamer]

it was the land manager that told us how to do it and like i sais we still allowhunting but now we r able to control it better ..\if i wanted to be an ass id stop all hunting on it and i could do this legally seeing the only way to acess these lans is to cross our priviate land so all i whoud have to do is close access to my private land thus no access to the lease but we dont we allow hunting on all of our lands with exception of our home quarter..
so u can whin srd all u want and as many talks with the area land manager you want treating me would never work beside there alot of legal ways to be a *****

[Hunterclark]

Jamie wrote

Grand.. I must say that I most disappointed in this comment

"i know we leased 2 quarter about 3 years ago we paid to lease the land buy but it was alkso up to us to fence and cross fence and maitain everthand we allowed anyone who wanted to hunt in untill guys started cutting wire cause it was closer to the truck then trying to drag to the gate

why would that be disapointing jamie cant say i blame grandslamer ? Do you own cattle or land ?????if you dont cant see your point of view finding his point of veiw dissapointing as you have stated i guess its easy to point fingers when you live in the city .

[Jamie]

Hunter.. I believe he was talking about LEASE land.. Which he doesn't own either. In fact I own as much of it as he does.

OH and by the way.. Though I live in the big scary city now.. It hasn't always been that way...
I have my fair share of 3 am checking cows. And my left butt check still freezes very easily from getting really cold one winter ridding on the fender of a tractor out feeding cows...

Don't ASSUME

Jamie

[Jamie]

Grand.. Care to put it to a test?

Sorry this isn't personal.. This all about making a point. And getting the renters of Alberta to understand just who's land they are making a living off of.

Jamie

[Hunterclark]

Hunter.. I believe he was talking about LEASE land.. Which he doesn't own either. In fact I own as much of it as he does.

OH and by the way.. Though I live in the big scary city now.. It hasn't always been that way...
I have my fair share of 3 am checking cows. And my left butt check still freezes very easily from getting really cold one winter ridding on the fender of a tractor out feeding cows...

Don't ASSUME

thanks for makeing that so much more insightful comeing from you i will assume .

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Hunterclark

thanks for makeing that so much more insightful comeing from you i will assume .

Your welcome.. Please feel free to add any aditional questions you may have.. I am only here to help.

Jamie

[7 Ultra]

I think i just proved a piont BUD! It`s attitude like that, that has almost every lease holder in alberta sick of hunters!!!! And i don`t have to prove anything to this board. We just keep makin reports to f&w and rcmp.I didn`t say as to where animals were shot but if you really want to know it was on private land.Oh wait , who knew ranchers might actually own deeded land too just keep bringing the attitude to the door so we can keep saying NO!! You think it might all come down to a little more RESPECT??? Like i said before I AM ALL FOR HUNTING ON LEASE LAND just to bad there are people that show no respect v.s. good hunting practices!!!!!

[grandslamer]

what the hell is there to test ??
like i said before we still allow hunting the whole point of leaveing the bulls in all year (which we applied and recieved a permit for) was to have some control and to keep out assh#le that wreck everthing
and again if i wanted to be a dink i coukd keep everybody off my private land
and the is now way to access the lease without crossing my private land
so what test you think you can force me tolet people cross so they can access the lease?not a chance

Originally Posted by 7 Ultra

I think i just proved a piont BUD! It`s attitude like that, that has almost every lease holder in alberta sick of hunters!!!! And i don`t have to prove anything to this board. We just keep makin reports to f&w and rcmp.I didn`t say as to where animals were shot but if you really want to know it was on private land.Oh wait , who knew ranchers might actually own deeded land too just keep bringing the attitude to the door so we can keep saying NO!! You think it might all come down to a little more RESPECT??? Like i said before I AM ALL FOR HUNTING ON LEASE LAND just to bad there are people that show no respect v.s. good hunting practices!!!!!

Please don't judge the rest of us by Bud's example.

[BUD]

Originally Posted by grandslamer

bub are u serious
u tell the guy wheres the pics ,prove it ..
you have to be out of your mind the guy just stated what has happened to him and his family and u attack him and call him a liar..
you whould be hard pressed to find a farmer who hasnt been affected in the same way and yes its caused by hunters while not all hunters are idiots and porchers ..alls said poachers aree still hunters ..i am not trying to lump everyone in the same bag buy its all hunter in one form or anthor ..i am 100 percent sure that 99.99% of poeple on here are ethical and honest law abiding hunters a like any group ther are bound to be a few who r a litte shady..and nobody here is going to argue that horses and cows and other livestock are shot everyyear and its documented by f&w and rcmp

If its documented by F.W and R.C.M.P , then like l said show us the proof.
And yes , l myself dont believe that one landowner can have 6 horses shot , 2 at a time and also 2 cows plus all the other crap , all done in one season , and all done by hunters , l dont believe it for a minute ,unless the guy has a bitter enemy of his own making somewhere , hunters , NO.

[grandslamer]

1 he dosent have to show proof of anything to any body he was just voicing his opinion
2 everyone one this board know this happens
3 doest matter what u belive

[BUD]

Originally Posted by 7 Ultra

I think i just proved a piont BUD! It`s attitude like that, that has almost every lease holder in alberta sick of hunters!!!! And i don`t have to prove anything to this board. We just keep makin reports to f&w and rcmp.I didn`t say as to where animals were shot but if you really want to know it was on private land.Oh wait , who knew ranchers might actually own deeded land too just keep bringing the attitude to the door so we can keep saying NO!! You think it might all come down to a little more RESPECT??? Like i said before I AM ALL FOR HUNTING ON LEASE LAND just to bad there are people that show no respect v.s. good hunting practices!!!!!

No you dont have to prove anything to this board , but you should.
You are acusing us hunters for shooting 6 horses , and a bunch of cows , and a whole lot of other crap , all in one season , if you can do that then l can call your bluff , put up or shut up.

[chuck0039]

Just to clear somthing up I read " 1/2 dozen horses ( 2 at one time) " not two at a time. Aswell i think 7ultra means over the years not all in one year.

[BUD]

Originally Posted by chuck0039

Just to clear somthing up I read " 1/2 dozen horses ( 2 at one time) " not two at a time. Aswell i think 7ultra means over the years not all in one year.

He said over the YEAR , he also said 2 at a time , meaning 2 horses shot at the same time.

[grandslamer]

gezz bud you have to be the only one who didnt get it
he has lot 6 horses over the 3 generations his family has ranched and one time 2 horse were shot at the same time if you dont think it can happed watch the news 5 horses were shot around bently this year all at the sametime

Bud, open the mind, close the mouth, open the ears and things won't go south.
Read and absorb. 7 ultra has no reason to lie. He stated that he is all for hunting on lease land. All he did was state some reason's why landowners don't let hunters on. The original topic is about a hunter fighting to get access to lease land, nothing wrong with that. Unless your grandslamer , who is happy to allow the leaser to have full say.

[gunslinger]

five o i have been trying to follow this thread casue i think you have a valid point.hopefully if i keep reading this i will eventually find out what happened in the end, if we even make it to the end cause i can see this is going ot be closed in about 2 minutes.

[grandslamer]

no i dont think the lease hold should have all the say the whole point was some have legeit reasons to restrict acess to certain people not ..and that some hunter go to far in demanding what they think of there rights
and the other point was tp try to get along with the landowners which i the long run works out for everyone

What's difference in a lease holder putting one cow on each section to legitimize keeping hunters off then Five0 trying to exercise his rights to access?

Originally Posted by grandslamer

what the hell is there to test ??
like i said before we still allow hunting the whole point of leaveing the bulls in all year (which we applied and recieved a permit for) was to have some control and to keep out assh#le that wreck everthing
and again if i wanted to be a dink i coukd keep everybody off my private land
and the is now way to access the lease without crossing my private land
so what test you think you can force me tolet people cross so they can access the lease?not a chance

A quote from a previous post.

Some Lesser's think that putting a bull on all year is a legit reason to keep people off. IT'S NOT.

"access the lease without crossing my private land
so what test you think you can force me tolet people cross so they can access the lease?not a chance"

You might want to check on this

[grandslamer]

for **** sakes read what i said
we put the bulls on there so we could have some control
and what i mean buy that the people we have caught cutting fences and wrecking gates we we able to kick them off and keep them off and like i said we let people on the leases and our private property without hinderance all weve ever ask is to use respect

.

[7 Ultra]

Sorry bud it was a spelling mastake i did mean over the years. Lets just all work together in order to hunt together, the more we can educate the younger hunters and older that not all farmers only have leased land and yes you would have to travel across my private land to get to the lease makes me the guy you have to get along with.But i still believe in hunting on lease land