Lease Land

[duffy4]

Good luck to you. And thank you for doing this all the way. It will benidit other hunters accessing lease lands in the futrue.

Robin in Rocky

Good luck. Hope it all goes according to the rules.

I would like to ask him for permission. And I think all of us should ask him for permission.

[FiveO]

Had the hearing this afternoon. The lease holder spoke and I got my chance I was a little nervous but to the point. The lease holder indicated he had other cards to play at a later date and would hold them back according to legal advice. It was almost as if it was an intimidation tactic he tryed to pull.
I have a card up my sleeve as well, caught him lying this afternoon and can substantiate it and provide formal evidence.

Should have a binding decision within the next 30 days wait and see what happens.

Originally Posted by FiveO

Had the hearing this afternoon. The lease holder spoke and I got my chance I was a little nervous but to the point. The lease holder indicated he had other cards to play at a later date and would hold them back according to legal advice. It was almost as if it was an intimidation tactic he tryed to pull.
I have a card up my sleeve as well, caught him lying this afternoon and can substantiate it and provide formal evidence.

Should have a binding decision within the next 30 days wait and see what happens.

Good job on taking this as far as you have. I hope the outcome is in your favour. I agree, sounds like a little BS going on from his side.

[SakoAlberta]

Please keep us updated!

[rugerman257r]

I agree that everyone should have access to hunt lease land if there is going to be no adverse effects to livestock, but then again we allow access to most of our land be it on foot or by vehicle to nearly everyone even when there are livestock present. We have never had anyone confuse a cow for anything other than a cow, and the most they will do if you drive through them is possibly follow to see if your going to feed them. We have 48, 1/4 sections and have very little trouble.(This is not an invitation for more people to come hunting!) Now one of our neighbors phoned a couple years back to inform us of a fellow from out of the area who was caught driving across some lease land which was overly dry and when asked if he would mind staying off with his vehicle untill it rained/snowed he said No! it was lease land and he couldn't be kicked off. After explaining the law he again asked if he would walk only untill there was some moisture. Again he got an emphatic no and got a misplaced lecture. Now this fellow can't gain access to any of the areas deeded land, and there are many loop holes that are used to keep him off the lease land. News travels fast in ranch land.

[raised by wolves]

I spoke with a F&W constable about this last year. The short version is that hunters only have to inform the lease holder they are going to be on the property. They don't require permission, providing the leased property is Crown land. If the land is private, you need permission from the owner, not the lease holder.

I had a lease holder try bringing down the RCMP on me last season. RCMP came out, asked me how my hunt went, and checked to see if I had closed any gates that I had accessed. They wished me 'Good hunting' and went on down the highway.

Originally Posted by raised by wolves

I spoke with a F&W constable about this last year. The short version is that hunters only have to inform the lease holder they are going to be on the property. They don't require permission, providing the leased property is Crown land. If the land is private, you need permission from the owner, not the lease holder.

I had a lease holder try bringing down the RCMP on me last season. RCMP came out, asked me how my hunt went, and checked to see if I had closed any gates that I had accessed. They wished me 'Good hunting' and went on down the highway.

I wish this was written in stone somewhere. Laminate it and keep it with you.

[grandslamer]

Originally Posted by raised by wolves

I spoke with a F&W constable about this last year. The short version is that hunters only have to inform the lease holder they are going to be on the property. They don't require permission, providing the leased property is Crown land. If the land is private, you need permission from the owner, not the lease holder.

I had a lease holder try bringing down the RCMP on me last season. RCMP came out, asked me how my hunt went, and checked to see if I had closed any gates that I had accessed. They wished me 'Good hunting' and went on down the highway.

sorry dudebut ihave to call bull on this one u still have to ask permission the lease holderusaly has to give it to you but but if he has a lawfull reason not to allow access then permission can be denied,,remember the land owner has to allow resonable access not total access

[mulecrazy]

I agree with getting permission as a lot of times leaseholders have private land they will let you on as well. Just a good way to build a good hunting releationship with the rancher. If he refuses with no valid reason I would try and reason with him and eventually a lesson may have to be given to the leaseholder in the same manner as is going on here. or just go on and see what happens.

[thumper]

I may be splitting hairs here Grandslammer, but if you look at the gov't information for accessing lease land, you won't see the word 'Permission'
http://srd.alberta.ca/lands/usingpub...land/maps.aspx

'Permission' implies that recreationalist access is up to the leaseholders discretion - which it is not. In essence, it's the leaseholder that needs 'permission' from the gov't to deny access - only for valid reasons as outlined by the gov't.

I'm very careful not to ask 'permission' when following these regulations. I try to be more accurate, and ask the leaseholder if he or she has any 'objections' to me accessing the property. If they do, we can discuss whether the objections are bona-fide grounds for denying access as per the regulations. Otherwise, providing I follow the gov't standard conditions, and the gov't approved leaseholder conditions, I'm free to go.

[grandslamer]

i understand that thumper but i does say reasonable access and when these new rules were written they never defined it very well and in the end it was the lease holder that is the one to say what is reasonable.. ive said in other post the our family farm is in the same area as the farmer involved here and ive knowen he family for a long time ..i dont nessasarily agree with him we have our own land and some lease land the we allow anyone to hunt on the leases and our deeded land ecept our home quater and we could easily stop people from entering the lease but we never have unless they are caught damaging our property ie fences and vehicles. weve even caught a guy sighting his rifle in on our waterer and we had him charged and part of his sentence was he was banned for 5 year from even entering and leased land anywere in alberta my whole point is why fight the farmer that bad for if push comes to shove there are over 50 leagle reasons he can fall back on to keep everyone out and this farmer thats involved can be a sturboun ***** belive me iv tangled with him before its not worth it and now most of he friends and family arent going to allow anyhunting on there private lands at all anymore and so far by my count there r now 250 plus quarters lost to everyone over this

[mulecrazy]

without getting too specific whereabouts is this ordeal going down. names are not needed just curious if it affects any of my hunting areas. Sorry if it has already been mentioned in this thread but I don't recall. That is unfortunate that due to one cranky farmer that many acres is shut down. Maybe a precedent will be set and this situation can be avoided in the future.

[grandslamer]

its been about 30 days
any word on the desicion???

You people know nothing of what lease land holders have to pay nowadays for lease rights, not do you know of what the yearly fee is. Nor do you know anything about infraction fines costs. Nor in fact do you know anything about closing gates or leaving gates open for that matter. Two years ago, some duffus shot a simental cow....'just 'cause he thaught is was sick. I ride fences on a grazing lease that is divided into 4 pieces. The land lease people expect that "over" grazing will not occur. Why is it that I continously have to chase cows back into their proper pastures?????
Why is it that I continuously have to round up bulls out of the forestry? My neighbour has been giving rights to "walk" onto his lease land. So why is their F'n quad tracks all over the place......Why is it that during spring turnout, I have to chase people off the lease with their Chevy trucks? with idiots like that around and until you big city folks can learn R.E.S.P.E.C.T .......close it all off is all I can say. Ohhh. and the funny thing is that every bozo you run into always loves farmers and ranchers and would do this or that and wouldn't never leave gates open.....oh, no not me????? Nope, all's you want is the right to walk or drive on come opening morning. All full of promises of being the good guys....it's the other guys that are bad. Yet, we come across garbage, quad and truck tracks, open gates and game left shot dead. YES....game left shot dead. So far, one moose, two elk and a WT deer, oh and I even found a bullet sleeve at the elk site. When people learn respect, maybe...until then, I say CLOSED.

[Jamie]

OHHH
This will go over well

I am in WAY to good of a mood to get into this.

OK.. One shot, so what do you pay the GOV? I dont care what you paid someone else for the land. I want to know what you RENT the land from me for per year.
Just remember its not yours.. You are just a renter.

Jamie

Originally Posted by FiveO

Man am I ticked. I got refused access to 13 quarters of grazing lease this morning. I informed the leasor that he couldnt refuse reasonable access he thought different. This guy has some of the best land in 336 and gave me the same BS last year well not going to take it so I called the land office and spoke with one hell of a nice guy. The land guy is going to contact this nimrod and set him straight, I told him I want him fined and the land guy said if he didnt cooperate he would be fined.
Lets see what happens.

You might see your problem as seeing this "nimrod" who lease 13 quarters and probably owns title to just as much as a "lesser" human than you 'cause he's got cow **** on his boots. But you, being the owner of a 33' x 100' patch of grass and driving an SUV with a navigation system and a Blueberry or Blackberry or whatever the F' you call as being superior. Why don't you learn a bit more about those folks whose land you wish to enter upon. I believe that Alberta Outdoorsman recently printed an article about that...you just might get a more harmonious outcome.

Originally Posted by Jamie

OHHH
This will go over well

I am in WAY to good of a mood to get into this.

OK.. One shot, so what do you pay the GOV? I dont care what you paid someone else for the land. I want to know what you RENT the land from me for per year.
Just remember its not yours.. You are just a renter.

Jamie

My neighbour, whom I refer to has recently paid over $1000,000.00 for a grazing lease. No, I'm not the owner, but I ride the leases.

Edit: no, no nobody rents from "you"...do you see the monthly lease payments??? They are over $20,000.00 BTW...not the one buck like everyone thinks.

Originally Posted by Jamie

OHHH
This will go over well

I am in WAY to good of a mood to get into this.
OK.. One shot, so what do you pay the GOV? I dont care what you paid someone else for the land. I want to know what you RENT the land from me for per year.
Just remember its not yours.. You are just a renter.

Jamie

So...why'd you ask???

[Jamie]

Getrdun..
Yet another reason why we need to evaluate these renters.. That cash should have gone back to the tax payer.
The Renters have WAY to good of a deal. Imagine what the rental on that land would go for on the open market. Ranchers talk about being so independant.. Yet some keep sucking at the Govs tit.
I think you keep forgetting, that is OUR land.. Not yours. and we will not ask permision to access it. We will let you know when we are going to be there.. But thats it.
As for the quads and trucks.. Those are people breaking the rules.. Do what you wish with them. A stupid rule.. But still a rule.
The average joe hunter has stood up in the past few months.. Do not be surprised to see them stand up yet again and tell the renters exactly what we are going to do with OUR land.


jamie

And just so you know, by the mere fact that I participate in this forum. I am a hunter too, just like you guys. But I get to see both sides of the coin....

Originally Posted by Jamie

Getrdun..
Yet another reason why we need to evaluate these renters.. That cash should have gone back to the tax payer.
The Renters have WAY to good of a deal. Imagine what the rental on that land would go for on the open market. Ranchers talk about being so independant.. Yet some keep sucking at the Govs tit.
I think you keep forgetting, that is OUR land.. Not yours. and we will not ask permision to access it. We will let you know when we are going to be there.. But thats it.
As for the quads and trucks.. Those are people breaking the rules.. Do what you wish with them. A stupid rule.. But still a rule.
The average joe hunter has stood up in the past few months.. Do not be surprised to see them stand up yet again and tell the renters exactly what we are going to do with OUR land.


jamie

Then you are openly admitting to breaking the laws...just check your hunting regulations.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Then you are openly admitting to breaking the laws...just check your hunting regulations.

Here yah go.. Perhaps you should spend some more time reading the regs.

Rights and Responsibilities of the Recreational User
Does the leaseholder need to be contacted before the recreational users visit?
The recreational user must contact leaseholders before accessing the land. The purpose of the contact is to provide leaseholders with information about the visit and how the visit could impact your operation. As well, leaseholders can provide the recreational user with additional information about the land.


Like I said.. I dont ask permision.. I just give them a heads up as to when I will be there.

Anyhow.. I am heading to bed.

Jamie

Ok Jamie....people like yourself is why problems occur rather than get resolved. But good night anyways...Jamie, did you miss the part where I said that my neighbour and friend paid over a million dollars for that grazing lease...when was the last time that YOU paid one million dollar for anything, especailly YOUR land???? just asking?

[lilsundance]

Well gitrdun, You seem to like grouping all us hunters as city folk thinking we don't know how to close gates etc etc by the actions of a few. Not all of us who hunt are city folk, and a lot of us who live in the city grew up in the country or small town and know what respect is to farmers. We leave gates as we find them, when we see cattle with hoof rot we inform the farmer whose land we are on. $100,000 for a grazing lease. That sure wasn't for a 1/4. How many sections was that? You wanting to close off all leased land is no different than some people wanting to take all lease land away from the cattlemen. But if that happened a lot of ranchers/farmers would go belly up and no one wants that. But the fact of the matter is its still government land and as land owners they can still dictate who can and can not have access to that land for legitimate purposes. As users of that land we should report all transgressions to the proper authorities.
Now it sounds like, to me, you have a problem with a few people and like to blame it on all of us. Just like the some people blame all of us gun owners by the actions of a few criminals who use guns in their criminal actions.
The respect theme works both ways here. I respect the farmer whose land and leases I hunt on by leaving all the gates as I find them, report any thing out of the ordinary to him. And please don't think I am an exception because I am not. In return all I ask is he show me the respect to be hunting/fishing on government land he has leased and is usually sitting idle for 6 months of the year.

[BUD]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

You people know nothing of what lease land holders have to pay nowadays for lease rights, not do you know of what the yearly fee is. Nor do you know anything about infraction fines costs. Nor in fact do you know anything about closing gates or leaving gates open for that matter. Two years ago, some duffus shot a simental cow....'just 'cause he thaught is was sick. I ride fences on a grazing lease that is divided into 4 pieces. The land lease people expect that "over" grazing will not occur. Why is it that I continously have to chase cows back into their proper pastures?????
Why is it that I continuously have to round up bulls out of the forestry? My neighbour has been giving rights to "walk" onto his lease land. So why is their F'n quad tracks all over the place......Why is it that during spring turnout, I have to chase people off the lease with their Chevy trucks? with idiots like that around and until you big city folks can learn R.E.S.P.E.C.T .......close it all off is all I can say. Ohhh. and the funny thing is that every bozo you run into always loves farmers and ranchers and would do this or that and wouldn't never leave gates open.....oh, no not me????? Nope, all's you want is the right to walk or drive on come opening morning. All full of promises of being the good guys....it's the other guys that are bad. Yet, we come across garbage, quad and truck tracks, open gates and game left shot dead. YES....game left shot dead. So far, one moose, two elk and a WT deer, oh and I even found a bullet sleeve at the elk site. When people learn respect, maybe...until then, I say CLOSED.

Well if you have that much trouble with us on your lease why bother with the hassle , just keep your stinkin cows on your own property , they do more damage than we do anyway , ohhhhh , ya got to many cows , to bad , sell some , or buy some more deeded land .

Hey folks...this grazing lease that I speak of is commonly known as some of the hardest lease to get permission from. But...but for those folks who watch the Alberta Lease land website, call at the appropriate time and come in for registration day sign up...no problem. These hunters report some of the best hunting experiences due to limited access and reduced pressures. So rather than take on Jamies' attitude, why not co-operate with these hard working folks and enjoy a truly great experience. What would you rather have, running into hunter after hunter, or enjoy your day afield, get your game and then move on to let others enjoy the same.

[BUD]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Ok Jamie....people like yourself is why problems occur rather than get resolved. But good night anyways...Jamie, did you miss the part where I said that my neighbour and friend paid over a million dollars for that grazing lease...when was the last time that YOU paid one million dollar for anything, especailly YOUR land???? just asking?

WHATTTTTT , a million bucks for a grazing lease , haaaaaaa, show me the paperwork , how much did they lease , half of Alberta ?
If he paid that much for a lease , he has enough to buy his own deeded land and keep off ours.

[BUD]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Hey folks...this grazing lease that I speak of is commonly known as some of the hardest lease to get permission from. But...but for those folks who watch the Alberta Lease land website, call at the appropriate time and come in for registration day sign up...no problem. These hunters report some of the best hunting experiences due to limited access and reduced pressures. So rather than take on Jamies' attitude, why not co-operate with these hard working folks and enjoy a truly great experience. What would you rather have, running into hunter after hunter, or enjoy your day afield, get your game and then move on to let others enjoy the same.

Would your friends name be Copithorne by any chance , or maybe yours.
Just wondering