First signs of the RAMP program

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL..yup, really. I knew Richard was at his Son's wedding and I didn't know if he'd read the board and I hated seeing him called a liar. He was told what he was told...perhaps he was told wrong but then again he never claimed to have seen it first hand. As I said, perhaps his buddy was confused....

LOL. So now the "fellow" was Richard (209X50), I see, my mistake. Based on your claim of truth, I thought you were in contact with the fellow himself, the horse's mouth if you will. At any rate, you perpetuated the story, vouching for its veracity actually, despite the fact you didn't really know whether it was true or not. That's called spreading a rumour, and with a subject like this, and the importance of dealing in facts, it's completely counterproductive, as we've agreed upon.

At any rate, fun as this is, it's not getting us anywhere we need to go. I'll leave it at that.

Hopefully with everyone now tuned to RAMP again we'll be up to speed on things as they inevitably progress.

Waxy

P.S. At his son's wedding eh, well that might explain it!

Originally Posted by Waxy

LOL. So now the "fellow" was Richard (209X50), I see, my mistake. Based on your claim of truth, I thought you were in contact with the fellow himself, the horse's mouth if you will. At any rate, you perpetuated the story, vouching for its veracity actually, despite the fact you didn't really know whether it was true or not. That's called spreading a rumour, and with a subject like this, and the importance of dealing in facts, it's completely counterproductive, as we've agreed upon.

At any rate, fun as this is, it's not getting us anywhere we need to go. I'll leave it at that.

Hopefully with everyone now tuned to RAMP again we'll be up to speed on things as they inevitably progress.

Waxy

P.S. At his son's wedding eh, well that might explain it!

Wow, you really love this crap don't you???? As I said in a previous post, I e-mailed back an forth with the elk killer....now can we stop this crap? I used to think you really cared...I'm beginning to wonder.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Wow, you really love this crap don't you???? As I said in a previous post, I e-mailed back an forth with the elk killer....now can we stop this crap? I used to think you really cared...I'm beginning to wonder.

I think I care too much actually, enough that I sit here and read your evasive and contradictory posts (these last couple are doozies ), trying to figure out what the point of it all is, and it actually bothers me to the extent that I respond rather than just ignoring it like most people do.

Waxy

Originally Posted by Waxy

I think I care too much actually, enough that I sit here and read your evasive and contradictory posts (these last couple are doozies ), trying to figure out what the point of it all is, and it actually bothers me to the extent that I respond rather than just ignoring it like most people do.

Waxy

I'd rather you ignored it too....ugh.

Nothing contradictory in anything I said. But I'm sure you'll invent something else to keep this discussion going that you said you were done with.

I don't get you Waxy...you've always seemed more intelligent than some of the peanut gallery types on here. I expect this of a few of the posters here but not you. I've always thought you were actually trying to make a difference.....guess I was wrong. Feel free to attribute some more things to me that I never said.....it keeps the focus off the real issue. Something you seem intent upon. I'm am done with our little discussion......

There sure was a lot less bickering on this site when a certain person quit posting for a year.

Firstly, X2 Sniper.
But since Casey has rejoined Finnigan I guess I will throw my two cents in as well.
Ramp starts, as far as we know. And then the report shows up that a blind squirrel finds a nut only because of the god-sent Ramp program.
Ramp starts but the land can't be disclosed for solid reasons but, wait, Ramp land is supposed to be public information.
Then we find that Ramp really didn't start after all.
So I guess that we have something worse than Ramp - a secret Ramp! Maybe the secret Ramp is only accessible by local outdoor celebrities and their cronies, maybe only politically insiders.
Maybe it is all just gunpowder-induced confusion.
We should all just let it go and focus on the big picture.
That is what I am going to do fellas, just focus on the big picture.

For the sake of clarity could we define the big picture; is it that Paid Hunting is here and we should all just get used to it, is it that it is coming but only some of us get to use it right now or is it that the nature of hunting in Alberta is about to change forever into something our forefathers tried to avoid. Due mostly to a group of landowners who think that they are entitled, who got the ear of a sympathetic out of touch minister, who has a couple of intellectual type buddies at the U of C that could make it happen and who have a cheer squad that like to do back flips for them.

Waxy i hear you, caring to much might be the problem

Sheep what do you care about these days?

[slopeshunter]

Where is the government getting the money to pay for RAMP? I find it interesting that I saw on the news yesterday that they're closing 300 beds at Calgary hospitals to save money and then today I see that they're going to save more money by changing some of the Grade 12 final exams to be multiple choice exams only, removing any written part of the exams, I guess so that a computer can quickly mark the exams. Way to think outside of the box government of alberta!

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by MAV

For the sake of clarity could we define the big picture; is it that Paid Hunting is here and we should all just get used to it, is it that it is coming but only some of us get to use it right now or is it that the nature of hunting in Alberta is about to change forever into something our forefathers tried to avoid. Due mostly to a group of landowners who think that they are entitled, who got the ear of a sympathetic out of touch minister, who has a couple of intellectual type buddies at the U of C that could make it happen and who have a cheer squad that like to do back flips for them.

All I know (and I don't know much) is that the 'good old days' when I lived on a farm and my father and uncle and grandpa hunting for deer and elk for meat are gone. 20 years later, I've only just begun hunting. I love the outdoors, and I have caught the hunting bug. I think I have maybe a few years left of quality hunting before the government makes it so difficult to hunt that I won't bother anymore. No matter who lobbies who, and whoever is the minister, I think it's a train that ain't stopping. Makes me sad.

But like everything else, land is getting regulated to the hilt, and for all I know, we won't be able to go hiking in K-country 5yrs from now without some sort of permit.

When the budget cuts came we all hoped the Ramp program would fall. It seemed the only good news to come out of the recession was that paid hunting would be staved off for the time being.
Not so.
I put this question to the esteemed minister (and woodsman) and he told me he was a stubborn SOB. So despite cuts to his department he still inisted that Ramp go through. Now I know we are not supposed to speculate on people's motivations, nor are we supposed to generate conspiracy theories, but really, what was he trying to achieve? Why would he fight so hard to get a nickle and dime program through and rob his fire supression budget to do it, then shepard it through budget cuts?
Change to the wildlife act.
Ministerial order that makes paid access legal.
Get the foot in the door?

Originally Posted by slopeshunter

Where is the government getting the money to pay for RAMP? I find it interesting that I saw on the news yesterday that they're closing 300 beds at Calgary hospitals to save money and then today I see that they're going to save more money by changing some of the Grade 12 final exams to be multiple choice exams only, removing any written part of the exams, I guess so that a computer can quickly mark the exams. Way to think outside of the box government of alberta!

I heard it came from the Land Use Framework but not 100% certain.

Maybe it's time for a new government.

Don't worry about what it costs now worry about what it's going to cost if it goes province wide. My conservative (little "c") roots hate it when any whinning special interest group gets on the govt. tit and now my special interest is forced into without any consideration from me. I'd like to thank those responsible for that it's a proud day.

But I'm just speculating now as chuck has said...

I just got off the phone with Grant Chapman, director of RAMP. He has told me that this program IS NOT IN PLACE YET. There is absolutely no public list available, and landowners are currently supposed to be managing land as they have in the past. NOONE has used the new RAMP program to access property

[209x50]

FYI: the brain trust.
I know I said I was done on this but while we were decorating the hall and cooking the rehearsal supper 2 people pmed and said they also had drawn in 300, had approached land owners that had never allowed hunting and have secured permission under RAMP. One even said the fellow showed him the sign up papers. Neither will comment on the post because of the stellar behavior of the brain trust on this post.
Shout and scream all you want but there are people who know what is going on and really happy with the changes. It seems the govt doesn't know the land owners have the bit in their teeth but that isn't a surprise. People are accessing land under the guise of RAMP and your endless rhetoric on this message board has been meaningless and has done nothing but driven people away from public discussion because of it, congratulations.
I off to a wedding

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 209x50

FYI: the brain trust.
I know I said I was done on this but while we were decorating the hall and cooking the rehearsal supper 2 people pmed and said they also had drawn in 300, had approached land owners that had never allowed hunting and have secured permission under RAMP. One even said the fellow showed him the sign up papers. Neither will comment on the post because of the stellar behavior of the brain trust on this post.
Shout and scream all you want but there are people who know what is going on and really happy with the changes. It seems the govt doesn't know the land owners have the bit in their teeth but that isn't a surprise. People are accessing land under the guise of RAMP and your endless rhetoric on this message board has been meaningless and has done nothing but driven people away from public discussion because of it, congratulations.
I off to a wedding

Richard, if that permission was granted for access after October 1st then it would indeed fall under the RAMP program. For anything before that it can't possibly happen. If you do not wish to believe me give Grant Chapman a call. I'm sure he'd love to speak with you.

[trouty]

maybe you guys should consider Grant Chapman is wrong, is it so hard to believe a government employee is not in the loop on his own program...Why don't you tell him people are accessing RAMP properties etc and maybe he needs to do a little digging into this. Clearly it's already off the rails...

From what I'm gathering, some landowners are tired of waiting for the Government to get their act in gear and are taking matters in there own hands and running their access as if RAMP were in place.....which apparently it will be in a couple weeks. It's not hard to believe that some hunters feel they are gaining access under RAMP as that's basically what landowners are telling them and they are making them sign in and provide WIN numbers just as if RAMP were in place. Apparently the access has nothing to do with political ties or outdoor celebrity status....Another conspiracy put to bed.........

[J Biggs]

so the thing is i have followed this in the outdoorsman magezine local news and on this site

like it or not looks liek its here

fthe life of me i cant figure out why the magezine guys are on here stirrin the pot about something that is a sore spot for so many

yup they say just to show it works lets post a sucess story thing is the program is not public as of yet and yes i confirmed this with local oficer

well the thing is you couls hunt on land that is in the program on another parcil with permission like always propably the case here but who realy knows?

not to be a rocket sientist to know this will be like kicking a hornet nest so early when its not even public as 209x50 says yes it was thru ramp

sad very sad

Not stirring the pot but getting the facts out....at least that been my only interst since day one. Some on here figure the best way to fight RAMP is by shouting, screaming, inventing conspiracies, vendictive actions and name calling. Others figure being well informed is the best tact. I tend to agree with the latter group. Information is a powerful tool. If we are going to beat this thing...it seems to me we should understand it.

LOL


(never used that before but seems appropriate)

[jimbos1]

some of these responses on here make me think some of these guys are guiedes trying to protect the land they believe god gave them right to?? maybe its about time our tax dollars were used to fight the big bucks of guided hunts and paying farmers to keep us regular hunters of the land.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by MAV

LOL


(never used that before but seems appropriate)

X2

Waxy

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

not stirring the pot but getting the facts out....at least that been my only interst since day one. Some on here figure the best way to fight ramp is by shouting, screaming, inventing conspiracies, vendictive actions and name calling. Others figure being well informed is the best tact. I tend to agree with the latter group. Information is a powerful tool. If we are going to beat this thing...it seems to me we should understand it.

wow!

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Not stirring the pot but getting the facts out....at least that been my only interst since day one. Some on here figure the best way to fight RAMP is by shouting, screaming, inventing conspiracies, vendictive actions and name calling. Others figure being well informed is the best tact. I tend to agree with the latter group. Information is a powerful tool. If we are going to beat this thing...it seems to me we should understand it.

FACT:
I just got off the phone with Grant Chapman, director of RAMP. He has told me that this program is not in place yet. There is absolutely no public list available, and landowners are currently supposed to be managing land as they have in the past. NOONE has used the new RAMP program to access property.

CORRECT INFORMATION:
I just got off the phone with Grant Chapman, director of RAMP. He has told me that this program is not in place yet. There is absolutely no public list available, and landowners are currently supposed to be managing land as they have in the past. NOONE has used the new RAMP program to access property.

UNDERSTAND THIS:
I just got off the phone with Grant Chapman, director of RAMP. He has told me that this program is not in place yet. There is absolutely no public list available, and landowners are currently supposed to be managing land as they have in the past. NOONE has used the new RAMP program to access property.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

From what I'm gathering, some landowners are tired of waiting for the Government to get their act in gear and are taking matters in there own hands and running their access as if RAMP were in place.....which apparently it will be in a couple weeks. It's not hard to believe that some hunters feel they are gaining access under RAMP as that's basically what landowners are telling them and they are making them sign in and provide WIN numbers just as if RAMP were in place. Apparently the access has nothing to do with political ties or outdoor celebrity status....Another conspiracy put to bed.........

Since when, in this country, are we allowed to take matters into our own hands?

Originally Posted by chuck

FACT:
I just got off the phone with Grant Chapman, director of RAMP. He has told me that this program is not in place yet. There is absolutely no public list available, and landowners are currently supposed to be managing land as they have in the past. NOONE has used the new RAMP program to access property.

CORRECT INFORMATION:
I just got off the phone with Grant Chapman, director of RAMP. He has told me that this program is not in place yet. There is absolutely no public list available, and landowners are currently supposed to be managing land as they have in the past. NOONE has used the new RAMP program to access property.

UNDERSTAND THIS:
I just got off the phone with Grant Chapman, director of RAMP. He has told me that this program is not in place yet. There is absolutely no public list available, and landowners are currently supposed to be managing land as they have in the past. NOONE has used the new RAMP program to access property.

Thanks Chuck, always good to get that info out there!

Originally Posted by chuck

Since when, in this country, are we allowed to take matters into our own hands?

LOL..it is a novel concept isn't it. I had a couple interesting conversations with landowners who aren't overly thrilled with the Government's handling of RAMP either. It seems a few are only putting a small amount of land into the program to test drive it so to speak. It seems they aren't thrilled with the lack of consultation and late delivery either.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL..it is a novel concept isn't it. I had a couple interesting conversations with landowners who aren't overly thrilled with the Government's handling of RAMP either. It seems a few are only putting a small amount of land into the program to test drive it so to speak. It seems they aren't thrilled with the lack of consultation and late delivery either.

Mr. Chapman heard that from me loud and clear during our conversation. IMO if this thing was not up and running before Sep 1st they have absolutely no business implementing it until such a year that it can be.

[J Biggs]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

From what I'm gathering, some landowners are tired of waiting for the Government to get their act in gear and are taking matters in there own hands and running their access as if RAMP were in place.....which apparently it will be in a couple weeks. It's not hard to believe that some hunters feel they are gaining access under RAMP as that's basically what landowners are telling them and they are making them sign in and provide WIN numbers just as if RAMP were in place. Apparently the access has nothing to do with political ties or outdoor celebrity status....Another conspiracy put to bed.........

so ya got this program that reumberses landowners that suposidly never allowed any or very little acess

now the program reumberses the land owners when a slip is submitted

so the land ownrs that are signed up for it are so tired of waiting forthey let guys on say it because of ramp ? the same land owners that never let any one on before ?

all from what you are gathering ?

do you live in the area how do you gather all this info ?

fairly big program that is not oficial yet but you know who to talk to and "gather info'

sounds like a fictonal writing piece to me

sxomeone can say whatever they think as gathering info on this web site or so it seems

all to defend what 209x50 anounces on here as the program is now going all to make some guys feel folish for not knowing this

this is very obvoius

Originally Posted by J Biggs

so ya got this program that reumberses landowners that suposidly never allowed any or very little acess

now the program reumberses the land owners when a slip is submitted
Actually it's a one time yearly payment now based on the type of habitat and access not the actual number of people that access the land

so the land ownrs that are signed up for it are so tired of waiting forthey let guys on say it because of ramp ? the same land owners that never let any one on before ?
It appears there are a couple ranches open that weren't before. I'm sure many that allowed previous access are involved too. I know of a few of both but have no idea as to who all the participants are.

all from what you are gathering ?
Information

do you live in the area how do you gather all this info ?
Nope but know several people down that way plus a few hunters that drew tags this year.

fairly big program that is not oficial yet but you know who to talk to and "gather info'
Some info...yup...just as others have provided some info too. Never claimed to know everything that's going on...just a few cases.
sounds like a fictonal writing piece to me
Nope...just info that I gathered.

sxomeone can say whatever they think as gathering info on this web site or so it seems
Seems lots do for sure

all to defend what 209x50 anounces on here as the program is now going all to make some guys feel folish for not knowing this

this is very obvoius

Just passing along what I've learned from speaking to a few landowners and hunters...that's all. Not sure what info I offered that you find so outrageous and fabricated. Just info from friendly chats with hunters and landowners. Nothing more.