Councillors for the County of Spirit River Lobbying for Elk Cull

[Cement Bench]

Originally Posted by cody j

Landowner permission can be tough, usually when people have had enough problems they get mad and shut down hunting to everyone or limit it only to people they know. Every stranger that knocks on the door will tell you they are a good guy even if they aren’t. People just have enough after a point. I have 2 quarters across the road from my house, every year I have some sort of stuff go on, deer poached, moose poached, fence taken down, people driving in fields, found a tree stand with trail cam and bait one fall. This is right by my house, what would it be like if the land was miles away? Probably a total free for all?

yes every stranger tells you they know your neighbors or grew up close by, what a crap,

I have helped f & w prosecute folks from wild tv submitters who put up tree stands and cameras on my 80 acres by the hiway,
they only phoned after my neighbor who had permission to bow hunt caught them and took pics of them, their trucks and cameras and tree stands
what jerks

I deal with trespassers every year,
folks on the last day,parked illlegally in my field with the window open wanting permission with a moose in their scope, caught them by breton as I was driving to Leduc when they called, cops thought that was funny when they showed up

a lot of hunters are scum

and guys get upset a lot when you deny them permission

paid hunting on my,land,would be ok, then I make a few bucks and maybe get real hunters who might respect the land and remove the animal for proper crop management

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

That’s true, I walk miles and sometimes I even get an animal doing that



I wonder if a late season draw that comes with 2 or 3 tags and costs a “bit” more would work? The extra money from the tag sales could go into a fund to help the landowners. It would be nice if that fund was only available to landowners who allow hunting, but there isn’t much manpower hired by the province to be able to administer that.

The late season draw in 212 started out very well organized by F&W, it came with a map of willing landowners who would allow hunting. I’ve shot a few elk there, and done my part to eat my way through the problem.

It always boils down to access though. It’s frustrating to have secured good permissions then watch the elk in a spot were you don’t have access. Landowner cooperation and ethical hunters are a necessary combination.

And that's the thing, especially with elk and private land. The government could give out an infinite amount of tags and have little to no impact.

Ties into that old saying. Hunt where the game is, not where you think it should be, or want it to be.

[Battle Rat]

With elk you can kill more with a few good hunters than you can by saturating the area with a large group that don't know how to hunt.

[birdseye]

Would it help if they started a either sex tag in those zones ? Like Elk water used to have,then a hunter could take a cow if no legal bull found, just curious

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by birdseye

Would it help if they started a either sex tag in those zones ? Like Elk water used to have,then a hunter could take a cow if no legal bull found, just curious

Absolutely, if lowering the numbers is the plan let them shoot a cow.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by birdseye

Would it help if they started a either sex tag in those zones ? Like Elk water used to have,then a hunter could take a cow if no legal bull found, just curious

Absolutely, if lowering the numbers is the plan let them shoot a cow.
2

[esher]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

Absolutely, if lowering the numbers is the plan let them shoot a cow.
2

That makes so much sense no politician will let it happen.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

There are hunt farms for guys like yourself willing to pay for "land owner" elk. Cull cows are cheap, might be right in your wheel house.

You will never convince enough private land owner to open their lands to eliminate the sanctuaries many provide for all species.

Jim

You need to get out more
If I was just out to kill animals I would be applying for antlerless tags
There’s many different ways to skin a cat
Landowner permits work well in many states
It would essential be very similar to outfitter allocations
The current system isn’t working
It needs to evolve with the changing landscape of what is needed to manage wildlife populations
Giving a few bucks to farmers who have to deal with all of the bs that’s associated with people chasing “free” wildlife, to me, is pretty fair

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

Absolutely, if lowering the numbers is the plan let them shoot a cow.
2

This seems like the best idea
Buy a general tag, you can still get an over the counter antlerless tag also
Make it cheaper too if you want

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

You need to get out more
If I was just out to kill animals I would be applying for antlerless tags
There’s many different ways to skin a cat
Landowner permits work well in many states
It would essential be very similar to outfitter allocations
The current system isn’t working
It needs to evolve with the changing landscape of what is needed to manage wildlife populations
Giving a few bucks to farmers who have to deal with all of the bs that’s associated with people chasing “free” wildlife, to me, is pretty fair

“A few bucks” in the states that’s thousands for a hunt. If you like that type of hunting just head south of the border.

[wildwoods]

We ALREADY have paid hunting in Alberta.

I’ve recently purchased a quarter of land to hunt the north country. I am not alone. The ranchers I spend time with are seeing more and more land being purchased by recreational users- namely, hunters. I will hazard an educated guess that these chunks of land will see less permission granted than from Joe Rancher.

There’s no easy solution, and I’m not offering one. But paid access is happening already wether we like it or not.

Food for thought.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

A lot of the farmers I know will flat out tell you they don’t have “elk” problems they have “elk hunter” problems. One farmer had a WT doe shot and left in his driveway, a spike elk shot and left at the gate of a pasture, and another young raghorn gut shot and left to die in the middle of his field. Fences cut across the land in January by “cow elk” hunters on ski-doos, etc. It is no wonder many say no. Thanks to some of the above antics, I have had to find new places to go because the landowners have just had enough and it’s easier to deal with the elk than the hunters.

LC

I am actually quite surprised at how much permission is granted from Ranchers and Farmers alike. To put up with all the garbage that comes with letting complete strangers access your land (usually with nothing to gain from it other than headache) is truly outstanding and should be commended.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

I am actually quite surprised at how much permission is granted from Ranchers and Farmers alike. To put up with all the garbage that comes with letting complete strangers access your land (usually with nothing to gain from it other than headache) is truly outstanding and should be commended.

Agreed. With nothing to gain and lots to lose I wonder why they bother.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

“A few bucks” in the states that’s thousands for a hunt. If you like that type of hunting just head south of the border.

No it’s not
Have you gone and done it?
I have... so unless you have real experience. I’d stick to the sidelines
My hunting season in alberta is 90% poacher prevention and 10% actual hunting
Hunting in alberta could be so much better than it is, if we didn’t have so many people with nothing invested. Complaining about actually contributing something to the whole process

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

No it’s not
Have you gone and done it?
I have... so unless you have real experience. I’d stick to the sidelines
My hunting season in alberta is 90% poacher prevention and 10% actual hunting
Hunting in alberta could be so much better than it is, if we didn’t have so many people with nothing invested. Complaining about actually contributing something to the whole process

It’s a slippery slope though man. Maybe today it’s $250 for a trespass fee in Wyoming for a goat. Then 50 years from now only the elite are affording the privilege of hunting private land.

Is getting permission even a problem? I hunt across the four corners of the province and never have much trouble gaining access. Even here in Strathcona County. I’ve often wondered why guys struggled with it so hard. A little respect and understanding goes a long way

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

You need to get out more
If I was just out to kill animals I would be applying for antlerless tags
There’s many different ways to skin a cat
Landowner permits work well in many states
It would essential be very similar to outfitter allocations
The current system isn’t working
It needs to evolve with the changing landscape of what is needed to manage wildlife populations
Giving a few bucks to farmers who have to deal with all of the bs that’s associated with people chasing “free” wildlife, to me, is pretty fair

Actually I get out enough and have more than enough experience in the hunting industry and field.

Our current system isn't the best for everyone, but it certainly isn't broken.

You keep mentioning giving a couple bucks to a farmer, do you really understand the complications this would create ? If said person did get a couple of these tags, how would they work ? Only good on "that" deeded land or for the whole WMU ? If it was per parcel, well the fella shelling out money would probably expect sole permission, I would.... This would limit and actually restrict a pile of access right ?

Now if these tags were WMU open, don't you think every land owner in that particular WMU should be eligible for these tags then ? Obviously they couldn't give everyone these tags, so we are back to per parcel...

Currently land owners that allow access are exempt to an extent on liability due to the recreationalist asking to access these lands. Insert land owner selling tags and inviting recreationalist to harvest with weapon, here lies the problem... Liability falls on the land owner as this becomes a business transaction and our general commercial liability does NOT cover discharging weapons... I know this for a fact, I went down this road and it is an eye opener, there are not a lot of insurance providers willing to insure sporting activities involving weapons. Feel free to contact a few and see if your idealism of a couple bucks would be enough to even provide coverage for the owner of these tags.

So, access will be limited even more and the elite will be provided increased opportunity, so this is what you want our current system to evolve too ?

Jim

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

Actually I get out enough and have more than enough experience in the hunting industry and field.

Our current system isn't the best for everyone, but it certainly isn't broken.

You keep mentioning giving a couple bucks to a farmer, do you really understand the complications this would create ? If said person did get a couple of these tags, how would they work ? Only good on "that" deeded land or for the whole WMU ? If it was per parcel, well the fella shelling out money would probably expect sole permission, I would.... This would limit and actually restrict a pile of access right ?

Now if these tags were WMU open, don't you think every land owner in that particular WMU should be eligible for these tags then ? Obviously they couldn't give everyone these tags, so we are back to per parcel...

Currently land owners that allow access are exempt to an extent on liability due to the recreationalist asking to access these lands. Insert land owner selling tags and inviting recreationalist to harvest with weapon, here lies the problem... Liability falls on the land owner as this becomes a business transaction and our general commercial liability does NOT cover discharging weapons... I know this for a fact, I went down this road and it is an eye opener, there are not a lot of insurance providers willing to insure sporting activities involving weapons. Feel free to contact a few and see if your idealism of a couple bucks would be enough to even provide coverage for the owner of these tags.

So, access will be limited even more and the elite will be provided increased opportunity, so this is what you want our current system to evolve too ?

Jim

Why would a landowners permit, extend past the land of person who would issued the permit???
In the current structure, if your a landowner and give permission to people to hunt on your land. Your liable if something happens

Our current system needs a total revamp
From the draw system
To the requirements to be a resident
To the cwd situation
Etc
Incentivizing landowners to open up opportunities to people that are willing to meet their terms is another option
Elk travel a long ways, it takes only a couple land owners to protect the herds and all other measures are pointless
No one would be forcing you to participate. If you don’t want to pay, I’m sure there’s farmers that would allow you to hunt their land for free. Or you can stick to hunting your own land or crown land...

[gman1978]

Tough situation, but there is a reason why some landowners call elk “ loser magnets”. They have had to deal with a lot.

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Why would a landowners permit, extend past the land of person who would issued the permit???
In the current structure, if your a landowner and give permission to people to hunt on your land. Your liable if something happens

Our current system needs a total revamp
From the draw system
To the requirements to be a resident
To the cwd situation
Etc
Incentivizing landowners to open up opportunities to people that are willing to meet their terms is another option
Elk travel a long ways, it takes only a couple land owners to protect the herds and all other measures are pointless
No one would be forcing you to participate. If you don’t want to pay, I’m sure there’s farmers that would allow you to hunt their land for free. Or you can stick to hunting your own land or crown land...

You clearly are unaware of the liability of access here in Alberta.

The Alberta Occupiers’ Liability Act largely exempts rural lands from liability to recreational users when no payment is made to the owner by the user. The Ontario, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island legislation is nearly as broad, differing from Alberta only in detail. Among the provinces that have addressed recreational use, only Manitoba has significantly limited the scope of its legislation which applies only to recreational trails.

Jim

[Cement Bench]

any progress on the original question by the op?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

You clearly are unaware of the liability of access here in Alberta.

The Alberta Occupiers’ Liability Act largely exempts rural lands from liability to recreational users when no payment is made to the owner by the user. The Ontario, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island legislation is nearly as broad, differing from Alberta only in detail. Among the provinces that have addressed recreational use, only Manitoba has significantly limited the scope of its legislation which applies only to recreational trails.

Jim

You have faith in our Justice system?

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

You have faith in our Justice system?

Enough that myself and thousands more allow access for recreational purposes here in Alberta.

Enjoy your day.

Jim

[Cement Bench]

hope some have contacted op to help with the county making some progress

sorry for my derail along with others

[cowgirl82.1]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Ok. Good job. You boys ****ed off this farmer this morning. Two can play this game. How about this:
Hunter “Can I go hunt your land?”
Farmer “Sure but your the 12th guy to ask”
Hunter “Ok Thanks”

One week later hunter calls up farmer
“You’re a f&#&$n a&#$#&#e because you let other guys in. They got elk and now there gone. I can only hunt Friday afternoons from 2-3. Boo hoo!”
Or
“You let an outfitter hunt too. That makes you a no good piece of s*$t”
Don’t think it happens? Cause it does.

Ok so fair enough you got a point. But here is the thing about that. People hunt on my families land each year, but we know when to say “no”. If you have 12 people wanting to hunt on your land tell some of them no. It is not safe to allow so many people out hunting on your property like that (someone is bound to shoot someone and you will get in trouble because you gave them permitted them to hunt). Set a limit say you only want 3 people or something hunting on your land. As the land owner it is your job to ensure the protection of the people you allow hunt.

[Dean2]

So as it turns out, this has nothing to do with Saddle Hills County, they didn't even know about this till the switch board lit up like Christmas. The Councillor quoted by the paper, Elaine Garrow, is actually a councillor for the MD of Spirit River. NO ONE at the County of Saddlehills is pushing for an elk cull though they are working on a population survey. There has also been no consultation with landowners in either County about this and the measures to take if the numbers are an issue. This is one Councillor going off half cocked based on talking to a couple of people.

This wasn't even run up the flag pole within the County of Spirit River before she went to the paper, this is the lone crusade of Councillor Elaine Garrow. You may wish to phone her and express your views if you own land or spend a lot of time in Saddle Hills or Spirit River. Her contact info;
email is

egarrow@mdspiritriver.ab.ca

780-765-2134 Direct phone number.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

Enough that myself and thousands more allow access for recreational purposes here in Alberta.

Enjoy your day.

Jim

I agree and good for you. I think Mark is usually a pretty reasonable guy, that last comment is really just petulance. Mark hunts all over the world so has a somewhat unique perspective to the average hunter and landowners.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

Enough that myself and thousands more allow access for recreational purposes here in Alberta.

Enjoy your day.

Jim

All I’m doing is making suggestions. It works elsewhere, and I wouldn’t have suggested it. If I didn’t think it could help somewhat in this situation

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I agree and good for you. I think Mark is usually a pretty reasonable guy, that last comment is really just petulance. Mark hunts all over the world so has a somewhat unique perspective to the average hunter and landowners.

Many of us hunt the globe, myself included in this demographic. The perspective I have gathered with my experiences is we do not want the elite to win over the common man in regards to our passion.

Originally Posted by marky_mark

All I’m doing is making suggestions. It works elsewhere, and I wouldn’t have suggested it. If I didn’t think it could help somewhat in this situation

I hope I never see the day where Wildlife here in Alberta is for sale....

Jim

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

Many of us hunt the globe, myself included in this demographic. The perspective I have gathered with my experiences is we do not want the elite to win over the common man in regards to our passion.



I hope I never see the day where Wildlife here in Alberta is for sale....

Jim

I’m not seeing how the “elite” would be winning in this situation?
This would be for cow elk tags... not bull tags

Right now as a Canadian resident, I can buy allocations and hunt them here every year
This is far more “equal” than that

[esher]

Originally Posted by Dean2

So as it turns out, this has nothing to do with Saddle Hills County, they didn't even know about this till the switch board lit up like Christmas. The Councillor quoted by the paper, Elaine Garrow, is actually a councillor for the MD of Spirit River. NO ONE at the County of Saddlehills is pushing for an elk cull though they are working on a population survey. There has also been no consultation with landowners in either County about this and the measures to take if the numbers are an issue. This is one Councillor going off half cocked based on talking to a couple of people.

This wasn't even run up the flag pole within the County of Spirit River before she went to the paper, this is the lone crusade of Councillor Elaine Garrow. You may wish to phone her and express your views if you own land or spend a lot of time in Saddle Hills or Spirit River. Her contact info;
email is

egarrow@mdspiritriver.ab.ca

780-765-2134 Direct phone number.

Spirit River 133 is not a county its a md ffs. And borders saddle hills to the west and birch hills to the east.