B.C. First Nation declares local ban on moose hunt

[Puma]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-ban-1.4357290

[Newview01]

Unfortunately this will not be a domino effect.

But good on them.

[58thecat]

So then will this spill over to other regions with regards to if FN can't hunt traditional lands more pressure on other areas?
Closed, one,open, closed...stewards of the land must see the impact on other areas to...just saying.

[ccmckee]

Wow! I'm impressed.

[NCC]

This is a method of applying pressure on the government to close all LEH moose hunts for non-natives.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by NCC

This is a method of applying pressure on the government to close all LEH moose hunts for non-natives.

Unfortunately, this is very likely the motivation behind this action.

[EZM]

The Actions taken by this FN group in this article is a good thing. FN have a vested interest in the environment as sustenance hunters. Responsibility and Stewardship is an important part of this.

There is likely no alternate motive other than what they said exactly said - yet we still find ways to turn any and every conversation into some negative commentary, diabolical conspiracy against the white man or some silly political debate. Only on AO. LOL. Come on guys.

[philintheblank]

The government is between a rock and a hard place on this issue, if they had tried to impose moose hunting restrictions on FN hunters, there would be an uproar. now that the FN put their own restrictions on hunting, its still the governments fault because they didn't do it sooner... End result is good though, reduced hunting until populations can be assessed and a path forward set in place.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by philintheblank

The government is between a rock and a hard place on this issue, if they had tried to impose moose hunting restrictions on FN hunters, there would be an uproar. now that the FN put their own restrictions on hunting, its still the governments fault because they didn't do it sooner... End result is good though, reduced hunting until populations can be assessed and a path forward set in place.

But is this even enforceable, or is it just a PR move? If a FN hunter shoots a moose in this area, who will lay charges, and will our courts actually convict anyone?

[NCC]

Originally Posted by EZM

The Actions taken by this FN group in this article is a good thing. FN have a vested interest in the environment as sustenance hunters. Responsibility and Stewardship is an important part of this.

There is likely no alternate motive other than what they said exactly said - yet we still find ways to turn any and every conversation into some negative commentary, diabolical conspiracy against the white man or some silly political debate. Only on AO. LOL. Come on guys.

How much time have you spent around FN hunters? I've lived near reserves all of my life and most of the FN people and hunters I have met are good people. Like any other segment of the population, there is a percentage of of the FN population that are only worried about personal gain. To those people, creating inroads to establishing FN control over the land and wildlife is way more important than "Responsibility and Stewardship".

That said, I hope you're right, I'm wrong, and this really is about the moose.

[Tfng]

Originally Posted by NCC

This is a method of applying pressure on the government to close all LEH moose hunts for non-natives.

X3

[MAC]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But is this even enforceable, or is it just a PR move? If a FN hunter shoots a moose in this area, who will lay charges, and will our courts actually convict anyone?

I doubt our courts will have anything to do with this. A reserve can impose its own rules and dish out punishment.
This is hardly new an employee of mine that is metis told me 10 years ago
In his reserve you had to have permission to hunt. deer was was pretty easy to get permission for but large animals such as elk and moose they tried to pair up hunters knowing management was key.

MAC

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by EZM

There is likely no alternate motive other than what they said exactly said - yet we still find ways to turn any and every conversation into some negative commentary, diabolical conspiracy against the white man or some silly political debate. Only on AO. LOL. Come on guys.

You sir just said a mouthful? 3rd time we agree?

[philintheblank]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But is this even enforceable, or is it just a PR move? If a FN hunter shoots a moose in this area, who will lay charges, and will our courts actually convict anyone?

Good point. Restrictions, bans and laws mean nothing with out enforcement. I would not be surprised if moose hunting continued in at least a small amount, although I would hope that the majority of FN hunters would respect the restrictions imposed by their own band.

as noted by others though, it wont stop them from going to a near by area and dropping a moose there.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

You sir just said a mouthful? 3rd time we agree?

All that proves is the both of us are "just a different kind of crazy". lol.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by EZM

The Actions taken by this FN group in this article is a good thing. FN have a vested interest in the environment as sustenance hunters. Responsibility and Stewardship is an important part of this.

There is likely no alternate motive other than what they said exactly said - yet we still find ways to turn any and every conversation into some negative commentary, diabolical conspiracy against the white man or some silly political debate. Only on AO. LOL. Come on guys.

Agree!

[3blade]

Originally Posted by NCC

This is a method of applying pressure on the government to close all LEH moose hunts for non-natives.

Yep.

If they were under treaty and on a reserve, its enforceable on reserve lands.

But that's not the case. They are operating on the idea of a land claim, it's not enforceable currently but that's the angle. They are going to try to prosecute someone and have the judge rule that they have legal authority over wildlife in their traditional territory.

How some folks have their head in the sand is unreal.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by NCC

How much time have you spent around FN hunters? I've lived near reserves all of my life and most of the FN people and hunters I have met are good people. Like any other segment of the population, there is a percentage of of the FN population that are only worried about personal gain. To those people, creating inroads to establishing FN control over the land and wildlife is way more important than "Responsibility and Stewardship".

That said, I hope you're right, I'm wrong, and this really is about the moose.

I did not grow up on a reserve, and I only know a handful of FN people and hunters. The FN people I know are really good people but I'm sure there are some FN people who are all about themselves (just like any cross section of societies racial, religious or cultural groups).

My point was really about how this is really positive that was precipitated by an issue the FN saw, and they took the initiative to do what was right for the Moose populations in their area. I don't think for a minute it had any other nefarious motives.

Too many FN communities have been "conditioned" to "try and fend for themselves" which sometimes leads to the "short sighted and personal gain" mentality.

After all, too many of us have been to remote FN communities where we see a nice big house with a paved driveway, a cool shop, new trucks, quads and a sexy boat at the chiefs house and drove a km or two down the road to see horrible living conditions, rutted mud roads, dilapidated buildings, etc..

This is what the average FN kid growing up sees - so how do you think he is going to be conditioned? If his own band (and chief) aren't looking out for him, who will?

Think of the audacity, and how numb the people must be to know, and see, the paving crews paving the chief's driveway when the pavers were supposed to pave the road into town. BTW - that's a real story.

Seeing this with my own eyes had a dramatic impact on how I viewed the FN people. I would have described myself as neutral perhaps 15-20 years ago, but over the years I have become more and more critical of FN leadership who, in my opinion, are largely responsible for their conditions and social issues their people live with.

I think our government needs to mandate how money is distributed to the FN's to ensure this corruption ends and the FN people have the benefits of this funding the bands receive.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MAC

I doubt our courts will have anything to do with this. A reserve can impose its own rules and dish out punishment.
This is hardly new an employee of mine that is metis told me 10 years ago
In his reserve you had to have permission to hunt. deer was was pretty easy to get permission for but large animals such as elk and moose they tried to pair up hunters knowing management was key.

MAC

Nowhere is it stated that this is a reserve, it is listed as "traditional hunting territory" which is not the same as a reserve. As well metis do not have the same hunting rights as FN, so that doesn't apply either. If this is not on a reserve, then it would be up to our courts to charge and convict offenders, and since there would be no actual laws broken, what could our courts do?

[3blade]

Originally Posted by EZM

I did not grow up on a reserve, and I only know a handful of FN people and hunters. The FN people I know are really good people but I'm sure there are some FN people who are all about themselves (just like any cross section of societies racial, religious or cultural groups).

My point was really about how this is really positive that was precipitated by an issue the FN saw, and they took the initiative to do what was right for the Moose populations in their area. I don't think for a minute it had any other nefarious motives.

Too many FN communities have been "conditioned" to "try and fend for themselves" which sometimes leads to the "short sighted and personal gain" mentality.

After all, too many of us have been to remote FN communities where we see a nice big house with a paved driveway, a cool shop, new trucks, quads and a sexy boat at the chiefs house and drove a km or two down the road to see horrible living conditions, rutted mud roads, dilapidated buildings, etc..

This is what the average FN kid growing up sees - so how do you think he is going to be conditioned? If his own band (and chief) aren't looking out for him, who will?

Think of the audacity, and how numb the people must be to know, and see, the paving crews paving the chief's driveway when the pavers were supposed to pave the road into town. BTW - that's a real story.

Seeing this with my own eyes had a dramatic impact on how I viewed the FN people. I would have described myself as neutral perhaps 15-20 years ago, but over the years I have become more and more critical of FN leadership who, in my opinion, are largely responsible for their conditions and social issues their people live with.

I think our government needs to mandate how money is distributed to the FN's to ensure this corruption ends and the FN people have the benefits of this funding the bands receive.

Ok, now you're off on a different subject, and making excuses for an unacceptable mentality. They wanted self government. Be careful what you wish for. Back to the moose:

If they don't think there's enough moose to hunt, they can decide to not hunt. THEY DO NOT HAVE LEGAL AUTHORITY TO STOP ANYONE ELSE!!! First Nations are NOT in charge of wildlife management, nor should they ever be.

That's what this is about, and what they are trying to change. That's why they included the demand that the province cancel LEHs. You seem to be ignoring that part. The government did the right thing and politely told them to shove off.

[covey ridge]

I am with FN with respect to the spirit of their concern, however I do not think they will be able to enforce the ban.

I feel bad that when any hunting issue comes up with FN there is always a suggestion of an evil motive.

If there is not enough moose there should be no hunt.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Nowhere is it stated that this is a reserve, it is listed as "traditional hunting territory" which is not the same as a reserve. As well metis do not have the same hunting rights as FN, so that doesn't apply either. If this is not on a reserve, then it would be up to our courts to charge and convict offenders, and since there would be no actual laws broken, what could our courts do?

The recent Supreme Court recent ruling said Metis are First Nations.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

The recent Supreme Court recent ruling said Metis are First Nations.

And yet they don't appear to have the same hunting rights that FN enjoy.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

The recent Supreme Court recent ruling said Metis are First Nations.

Actually, they didn't. Metis are not First Nations neither are Inuit. They are considered "Indians" under the constitution. That also doesn't mean they're entitled to the same rights as First Nations as I highly doubt there's any government that is going to embark on creating treaties with Metis.

[Albertadiver]

Another example of 'responsible stewardship of resources'

https://globalnews.ca/news/3814373/d...onnes-lobster/

[EZM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Ok, now you're off on a different subject, and making excuses for an unacceptable mentality. They wanted self government. Be careful what you wish for. Back to the moose:

If they don't think there's enough moose to hunt, they can decide to not hunt. THEY DO NOT HAVE LEGAL AUTHORITY TO STOP ANYONE ELSE!!! First Nations are NOT in charge of wildlife management, nor should they ever be.

That's what this is about, and what they are trying to change. That's why they included the demand that the province cancel LEHs. You seem to be ignoring that part. The government did the right thing and politely told them to shove off.

Fair comment on the derail - you are right, it's a different subject so let's table it for another time.

Here's how I see it and how I read it ......

With regards to the article, What I read is the FN suspended the hunt to preserve the moose populations. This suspension is something they expect their community to follow.

They also asked the government to consider suspending the moose harvest in the area, which would apply to both FN and non-FN hunters alike.

They did not ask for distinction, special rules, rights or obligations nor were they suggesting it. They came to the table first as an act of conservation first and should be commended for their actions in this regard.

Both of these were in order to preserve the moose populations.

The FN does not have legal jurisdiction to make laws, inclusive of hunting harvests/limits or regulations. They know that.

This was, and remains to be an act of conservation.

In my perspective if you begin a conversation, read an article or engage in obtaining information on something where you mind is already dispositioned (or searching) for the "worst" (or, alternately, the best) you are going to find it.

I wasn't searching for anything, so I just read what the words said - and that's how I see it.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by NCC

This is a method of applying pressure on the government to close all LEH moose hunts for non-natives.

Yep. They are simply following in the footsteps of Chief Joe Alphonse who was successful in getting large areas of the province shut down for Limited Entry Hunting. That despite publicly admitting he "has no control on his own people" and that many would likely still continue hunting in the effected areas.

This was a test, a muscle flex if you will to see if the government would cave in to their demands as well...

Originally Posted by 3blade

... They are going to try to prosecute someone and have the judge rule that they have legal authority over wildlife in their traditional territory.

This is exactly what the real issue is. Chief Joe may actually have figured it out. This crew is a tad behind to hit that bandwagon in the same manner, and so were turned down. They WILL have another angle soon...
And, if you care to pay attention, I'd hazard a rather informed guess that some from that band will soon start flaunting pictures of their moose kills in order to get a rise...

Sad Times Indeed...
Nog

[grouse_hunter]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Another example of 'responsible stewardship of resources'

https://globalnews.ca/news/3814373/d...onnes-lobster/

Thank you for the link. It's quite an interesting read...

[guywiththemule]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But is this even enforceable, or is it just a PR move? If a FN hunter shoots a moose in this area, who will lay charges, and will our courts actually convict anyone?

Never ! The court system and judges are afraid to go "there" in "modern kanada".

[Nester]

Well good for them.