Fort McMurray Fires

[catnthehat]

4 lane highway now and there are lots if B trains out there , pluse we have two mills in ten and it would not surprise me if they set up another truss factory .
Cat

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The big difference between High river and Ft. McMurray the way I see it, is that there are already scads of reputable contractors and building supply outfits set up in town that are established.
this should help expedite the re-build.
Cat

Only time will tell eh! Either way those who return have one hell of a story to tell thier grandkids.

[william1]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

No it wasn't .if that is yourself of thinking j guess the truck they were driven in was the root cause .
Cat

It's all a Political thing.
Nobody wants to have any blame associated with these 2 deaths.
It seems that they want to ensure the evacuation took place with no injuries or deaths.
This newspaper seems to think differently.

"Our key goal yesterday was to complete the evacuation of the 25,000 residents who fled to the north of Fort McMurray, and I'm pleased to say this succeeded," Notley said.

However, two people died in traffic accidents during the evacuation, she said. Those are the first fatalities directly related to the fire.

Exactly where does the boundary end during the evacuation.
Fort McMurray city limits.?

The link to the newspaper article.
http://www.krcrtv.com/news/rain-may-...ocity/39440280

[catnthehat]

The fact remains that the road was good and thousand of other motorists pulled over to the side if the road to sleep ,
That crash had nothing to do with the fire .
There was a fatality about two months ago attributed to a driver falling asleep about the same distance from town.
Cat

[I-Love-Eyes]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The fact remains that the road was good and thousand of other motorists pulled over to the side of the road to sleep
That crash had nothing to do with the fire .
There was a fatality big two months attributed to s driver falling asleep about the same distance from town.
Cat

Best typo ever....

[catnthehat]

Typo? What typo??
Cat

[Full Curl Earl]

Have to disagree with Cat, people were forced out, in a hurry, afraid and distracted. Nobody, and I mean nobody, was napping on the side of the road during the evac. Fire attributed to it, didn't cause it though.
Sadly, a firefighter lost his child that day. We should respect that loss and move on.
RIP

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Have to disagree with Cat, people were forced out, in a hurry, afraid and distracted. Nobody, and I mean nobody, was napping on the side of the road during the evac. Fire attributed to it, didn't cause it though.
Sadly, a firefighter lost his child that day. We should respect that loss and move on.
RIP

I didn't read that as napping, but as exhausted sleep. So they could proceed safely when they woke up.

Did I read it wrong ?

Or maybe some people should have stopped for a nap. I read that the young lady is believed to have fallen asleep at the wheel.

This did happen far from the fires. Didn't it ?

[elkhunter11]

I wasn't there, so I can't say if anyone was napping, but there were reports that some people pulled over when they ran out of fuel. At that point, I don't doubt that some people dozed off while waiting for fuel to arrive. As to the victims being the result of the fire, they were well out of the vicinity of the fire, would some people still consider them victims of the fire if they had made it to Edmonton, and the traffic accident occurred hours after they arrived in the city? Any way that you look at it, it was a terrible thing to happen, but overall, things went remarkably well for so many people to get out of Fort McMurray, pretty much on their own., or by helping each other. The fact that it did go so well, says a lot about the people that live in Fort McMurray.

[I-Love-Eyes]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

typo? What typo??
Cat

lol!!!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Have to disagree with Cat, people were forced out, in a hurry, afraid and distracted. Nobody, and I mean nobody, was napping on the side of the road during the evac. Fire attributed to it, didn't cause it though.
Sadly, a firefighter lost his child that day. We should respect that loss and move on.
RIP

I was there and saw lots of people sleeping in there cars.
Cat

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I was there and saw lots of people sleeping in there cars.

Cat

RIP, but agree the accident was a MVA, not directly related to the fire. They may have been on the road because of the fire, but the responsibility for driving was theirs.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by JustMe

RIP, but agree the accident was a MVA, not directly related to the fire. They may have been on the road because of the fire, but the responsibility for driving was theirs.

I agree, the fire was not the root cause or direct cause of this terrible loss of life. The fire was an indirect cause. The fire was the root cause of the evacuation. This was Driver error. Everyone in responsible for their own safety and have an onus to protect their own life. The root cause of this loss of life was driver error.



BW

[szk71]

So suppose there had been no fire and there happened to be a car accident with a fatality in the city. Would not having been a fire be the root cause of that?

Anybody got a Tylenol?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by szk71

So suppose there had been no fire and there happened to be a car accident with a fatality in the city. Would not having been a fire be the root cause of that?

Anybody got a Tylenol?

Read post #485, there was one recently.
Cat

[kevinhits]

This going back and forth on this accident that is supposed to be about Fort Mcmurray fires is getting tiresome....

I think we can all agree that this accident happened" indirectly" from the fires....

Would this accident have happened if people were not fleeing thier homes all at one time and having very heavy traffic congestion while being stressed and tired?

Just my thoughts is all

[silverdoctor]

What's even more tiresome? Silly bickering and banter.

Over 80,000 people have been displaced from their homes, some haven't got anything to go back to. Reliant on the kindness of strangers to keep them going.

You've probably gotten out of YOUR bed, jumped in YOUR shower, made a cup of coffee in YOUR maker and turned on YOUR computers to get online here and bicker - I'm sure the over 80,000 people from Fort Mac would consider that a flipping luxury at the moment.

[Ken07AOVette]

This absolutely made my day. This was in the mail today, sent from someone from the Edmonton area, who must have seen us in Ft Mac.

Again, made my day!

[Sashi]

Does anyone here know the difference between the immediate cause of an accident and the Root Cause. ^The immediate cause, is the young new driver, driving in a slow boring procession, for a long time where their passenger had probably already fallen asleep, falling asleep and drifting into the wrong lane. The prevention of the immediate cause would have been to pull over.
The root cause is the forest fire evacuation, which if it hadn't taken place, these people would not have been on the road, and this vehicle accident would never have happened.
This is basic accident and incident analysis, as I was taught.

[great white whaler]

amazing how fire can take away everything one spends a life time building ,money cannot replace the heartache ,may god give strength to all the people who as losted everything and build a stronger fort mac,,it amazing how disaster brings out the best in humans

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Sashi

Does anyone here know the difference between the immediate cause of an accident and the Root Cause. ^The immediate cause, is the young new driver, driving in a slow boring procession, for a long time where their passenger had probably already fallen asleep, falling asleep and drifting into the wrong lane. The prevention of the immediate cause would have been to pull over.
The root cause is the forest fire evacuation, which if it hadn't taken place, these people would not have been on the road, and this vehicle accident would never have happened.
This is basic accident and incident analysis, as I was taught.

I am also trained in post incident evaluation but the bottom line is unless we are actually part of the investigation itself we are all just guessing .
Cat

[william1]

Basic Cause and Effect.

Internet Definition.

When an effect has more than one cause, both causes are placed on the Cause Map. Each cause is connected to the effect with an AND placed inbetween. These causes are independent of each other, but they are both required to produce that effect. An AND is needed when people provide different, yet valid, explanations of a cause. People think of cause-and-effect as a simple one-to-one relationship; an effect has a cause. In reality, every effect has causes.

[william1]

I thought the Airport in Fort McMurray was closed.?
Maybe that info is posted here.
I apologize if it was.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...ng-with-notley

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by william1

I thought the Airport in Fort McMurray was closed.?
Maybe that info is posted here.
I apologize if it was.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...ng-with-notley

No just the old airport , the new one is still open
Cat

[6.5x47]

Neat video!
https://youtu.be/DB66Nre8GJc

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I am also trained in post incident evaluation but the bottom line is unless we are actually part of the investigation itself we are all just guessing .
Cat

I am disgusted that some people refuse to accept the evacuation as a reason for these deaths just to try and make the statistics look good...

The fact is there was a fire. The fact is the individuals in the car were fleeing the fire. The fact is the individuals left Fort McMurray fleeing said fire and failed to arrive at their destination. The fact is the fire played a significant role in these individuals deaths as they would not have been travelling that highway if it were not for the fire...

[catnthehat]

So what was the root cause cause of death a month ago on the same highway?
No fire but the person fell asleep.

I don't care about statistics and if it is a shame that people died but they were a long way away fom that fire and the flight risk was over .
Cat

[william1]

Well said.

Originally Posted by RavYak

I am disgusted that some people refuse to accept the evacuation as a reason for these deaths just to try and make the statistics look good...

The fact is there was a fire. The fact is the individuals in the car were fleeing the fire. The fact is the individuals left Fort McMurray fleeing said fire and failed to arrive at their destination. The fact is the fire played a significant role in these individuals deaths as they would not have been travelling that highway if it were not for the fire...

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by RavYak

I am disgusted that some people refuse to accept the evacuation as a reason for these deaths just to try and make the statistics look good...

The fact is there was a fire. The fact is the individuals in the car were fleeing the fire. The fact is the individuals left Fort McMurray fleeing said fire and failed to arrive at their destination. The fact is the fire played a significant role in these individuals deaths as they would not have been travelling that highway if it were not for the fire...

On one of the same days as the Ft Mac fire was raging we had a house fire in Calgary in which 5 adult men died. This is in a city with all of the fire dept resources available to respond as our firefighters weren't busy contending with the mother of all wildfires. There's no fudging of statistics, even if those unfortunate deaths were tally'd then it still verges on miraculous that only two among the entire city died. Traffic deaths are an unfortunate fact of life, do we start tallying the deaths of people driving to or from work up there as 'workplace related deaths' or 'oil sands related deaths'? Of course we don't, in the exact same context that you shouldn't with these.


http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/c...inal-1.3577749

The referenced story sounds like it was the local party house so it's probable that a lack of sobriety took part in the lack of survival.

[Sashi]

[QUOTE=catnthehat;3229865]So what was the root cause cause of death a month ago on the same highway?
No fire but the person fell asleep.

Well,! the root cause of that one sure as "heck" wouldn't have been the fire, would it Cat.