SCI...How They Have Hurt Hunting

[ishootbambi]

I won't say they have done nothing good for our heritage, but in my opinion they have done more to hurt it. They originated as a few wealthy Americans whose goal largely was pattinghemselves on the back for their trophies. Now I have no issue with trophy shows as most of them are, but the majority follow the scoring system set out by B&C. They were the first conservation group and the pioneers in scoring animals for comparison. Their system might not be perfect, but it IS the best available.

The folks at SCI seemed to want to make it easier. They created their own system....based loosely on B&C but with lower minimums to make up for what they were lacking. Rich guys making their own rules when they couldn't succeed at the game already in existence.

Take it a step further...they then started farming animals to grow trophies they couldn't obtain any other way. In my mind it isn't a stretch to think that if their "estate" category for pet shoot farms didn't exist, game farming wouldn't exist....and therefore CWD might not be spreading across the continent like it has including here in Alberta.

Without derailing another thread, some even want to redefine boundaries on what animal lives where. The only reason for it.....make something sound bigger than it is. There are no Shiras moose in Alberta. B&C named them and laid out boundaries years ago.

Originally Posted by KyleSS

It actually depends on what organization you belong to. For some reason Pope & Young / Boone & Crockett only accept moose from the USofA as the Shiras but Safari Club International will accept any moose south of Highway 1 here in Alberta as a Shiras. To my understanding and knowledge there is no genetic difference and geographic location is the only deciding factor.

Now I maybe wrong in all of this as that has been known to happen a time or two.

You're absolutely correct Kyle. B&C was the first conservation group and the guys that created scoring heads. A moose from Wyoming and a moose from the Yukon carry the same DNA. The Yukon bull will be bigger and B&C realized it's not a fair comparison. They got it right. But along came SCI...a bunch of dudes with plenty of money but lacking in hunting skill. Roosevelt warned of men willing to buy but they couldn't acquire through hard hunting. They made their own rules because they couldn't meet the requirements of the real guys. It's the " participants" who couldn't actually win that tried to change the rules. If you're ok with rearranging the rules so you can win then sure...Shiras are in Canada....but me, I golf from the lack tees too. Moose in Canada are Canadians.

The regular few can feel free to call me an idiot...I don't care. This crap makes the hardcore guys shake their heads in disgust. It's like the dudes all over the Internet stretching their arms out for pics, posting ridiculous inflated measurements and the like. If you shot an animal you're proud of them by all means smile big and show him off. Just don't lie about what it is.

[JFB]

They are first for hunters and a voice for our cause but ya high fenced estate hunting I have a huge problem with.

[58thecat]

As in whatever...if you dig hard enough you will find something to complain about...

[old dog]

Guys don't forget sometimes we r our own worst enemy. Let's stick together and truly fight those that want to take our rights away. Yea I don't agree with what some groups strive for but I want to win the war not the battle

[deerguy]

I support SCI but do not acknowledge their scoring system or record books as being legitimate. B&C/P&Y are the real plays in fair chase ethical hunting.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I don't doubt SCI supports hunting and hunters....but like many I do not care for their "record book" nor their support for "hunt" farms.

LC

[300magman]

Originally Posted by deerguy

I support SCI but do not acknowledge their scoring system or record books as being legitimate. B&C/P&Y are the real plays in fair chase ethical hunting.

Agreed

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

I won't say they have done nothing good for our heritage, but in my opinion they have done more to hurt it. They originated as a few wealthy Americans whose goal largely was pattinghemselves on the back for their trophies. Now I have no issue with trophy shows as most of them are, but the majority follow the scoring system set out by B&C. They were the first conservation group and the pioneers in scoring animals for comparison. Their system might not be perfect, but it IS the best available.

The folks at SCI seemed to want to make it easier. They created their own system....based loosely on B&C but with lower minimums to make up for what they were lacking. Rich guys making their own rules when they couldn't succeed at the game already in existence.

Take it a step further...they then started farming animals to grow trophies they couldn't obtain any other way. In my mind it isn't a stretch to think that if their "estate" category for pet shoot farms didn't exist, game farming wouldn't exist....and therefore CWD might not be spreading across the continent like it has including here in Alberta.

Without derailing another thread, some even want to redefine boundaries on what animal lives where. The only reason for it.....make something sound bigger than it is. There are no Shiras moose in Alberta. B&C named them and laid out boundaries years ago.





You're absolutely correct Kyle. B&C was the first conservation group and the guys that created scoring heads. A moose from Wyoming and a moose from the Yukon carry the same DNA. The Yukon bull will be bigger and B&C realized it's not a fair comparison. They got it right. But along came SCI...a bunch of dudes with plenty of money but lacking in hunting skill. Roosevelt warned of men willing to buy but they couldn't acquire through hard hunting. They made their own rules because they couldn't meet the requirements of the real guys. It's the " participants" who couldn't actually win that tried to change the rules. If you're ok with rearranging the rules so you can win then sure...Shiras are in Canada....but me, I golf from the lack tees too. Moose in Canada are Canadians.

The regular few can feel free to call me an idiot...I don't care. This crap makes the hardcore guys shake their heads in disgust. It's like the dudes all over the Internet stretching their arms out for pics, posting ridiculous inflated measurements and the like. If you shot an animal you're proud of them by all means smile big and show him off. Just don't lie about what it is.

B&C has missed the mark by not staying relevant. In my opinion they could be as big or bigger than SCI in North America. Their fair chase standards and ethics are where things need to be, however SCI has done a ton of research on animal boundaries not just arbitrary 49th parallel type boundaries that have never been re-examined and modified based on current species ranges. I think B&C has missed the mark by not staying current with real species boundaries. I don't agree with high fence North American hunting, and having everything in the record books from baboons to high fence animals but they do push hunters rights hard, something hat B&C has failed to do at the level SCI has.
As for the "inflated scores" its two different scoring systems, one is for total inches one rewards an animal based on symmetry.
The reason why their minimums are lower in my opinion is that people like recognition. Lower min scores mean more people are eligible for recognition. This is obviously a strong driver/motivation as their membership and coffers far exceed B&C. If B&C want to make headway with modern hunters they are going to have to start having an annual convention in Vegas like the rest of these groups and generate interest in the club. Remember B&C was once a rich man's good old boy club run out of the East as well. The founders were all the richest of society at the time.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

I won't say they have done nothing good for our heritage, but in my opinion they have done more to hurt it. They originated as a few wealthy Americans whose goal largely was pattinghemselves on the back for their trophies. Now I have no issue with trophy shows as most of them are, but the majority follow the scoring system set out by B&C. They were the first conservation group and the pioneers in scoring animals for comparison. Their system might not be perfect, but it IS the best available.

The folks at SCI seemed to want to make it easier. They created their own system....based loosely on B&C but with lower minimums to make up for what they were lacking. Rich guys making their own rules when they couldn't succeed at the game already in existence.

Take it a step further...they then started farming animals to grow trophies they couldn't obtain any other way. In my mind it isn't a stretch to think that if their "estate" category for pet shoot farms didn't exist, game farming wouldn't exist....and therefore CWD might not be spreading across the continent like it has including here in Alberta.

Without derailing another thread, some even want to redefine boundaries on what animal lives where. The only reason for it.....make something sound bigger than it is. There are no Shiras moose in Alberta. B&C named them and laid out boundaries years ago.





You're absolutely correct Kyle. B&C was the first conservation group and the guys that created scoring heads. A moose from Wyoming and a moose from the Yukon carry the same DNA. The Yukon bull will be bigger and B&C realized it's not a fair comparison. They got it right. But along came SCI...a bunch of dudes with plenty of money but lacking in hunting skill. Roosevelt warned of men willing to buy but they couldn't acquire through hard hunting. They made their own rules because they couldn't meet the requirements of the real guys. It's the " participants" who couldn't actually win that tried to change the rules. If you're ok with rearranging the rules so you can win then sure...Shiras are in Canada....but me, I golf from the lack tees too. Moose in Canada are Canadians.

The regular few can feel free to call me an idiot...I don't care. This crap makes the hardcore guys shake their heads in disgust. It's like the dudes all over the Internet stretching their arms out for pics, posting ridiculous inflated measurements and the like. If you shot an animal you're proud of them by all means smile big and show him off. Just don't lie about what it is.

I fail to see in you post where SCI has harmed the hunting community. They never tried to get Pope and Young or Boone and Crockett To change the way they score. They simply made their own club with thier own scoring rules. If you do not like the club do not support it.
Boone and Crockett may have done more harm than SCI creating poachers that want their name in the book. SCI puts a lot of money into habitat and the hunting community. Fights for hunters rights. Keeps hunting public in a positive light.
As for the fenced hunting aspect of things if people want to hunt this way they can go ahead it's just not for me. Would I be jelous that someone killed a bigger animal then me in a fenced compound, of coarse not. I also believe that contributed to CWD and I also believe baiting in Saskatewan is an aid in spreading it.
I don't believe in trashing someone for hunting different than me as long as it is done legally and safely. Some people think they are better than everyone else and if you do not agree with them 100% of the time they get upset.
For me I think every organization we can support the better but I am for keeping hunting viable for all not just a select few. Support who you like and don't worry about everyone else.