Rod vs. Reel

[Geezle]

Seeing huntinfishincampin's Rod Suggestions thread (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=47535 ) I got to thinking. What is more important...a higher end rod, or reel?

I know both are most important, but I realize that there's a huge variance in quality for both rods and reels.

Do you see the reel as an important part of the combo, or is it just a place to store your line?

What about rods? What benefits do you get with a higher quality rod (setting aside things like warranty)?


Since I'm ballin' on a budget, most of my stuff is in the lower middle of the price range I think. Everything I have is DECENT, but definitely nothing fancy. Right now I couldn't even imagine spending $150+ on just a rod for example. Of course it's always nice to have 'better' stuff, but how necessary is it?

[cutthroat666]

Are we talking about spinning gear? What is the most common expected use for this rod and reel?

I know everyone wants to have a multi-use setup but the expected main use will change a lot of the responses you will get here. If you can guide us all a bit more I will give you my two cents and I'm sure a lot of other fellas will chime in also.

It would also help to know if you are on a similar budget to that seen on the other thread. Are we talking about $100 - 150 reels and rods here?

[Cal]

I'd rather have a $50 reel on a $10 dollar rod than the other way around if thats what your asking. If I remember corectly you already have a Shimano Sojourn dont you Geezle? Just spend $50 or so on a higher end shimano or phlueger reel and thats all the rig you will ever need and then some IMO, I've been fishing pretty avidly since I was 8 years old and I have maby owned 2 or 3 rigs that were worth much over $60. If your talking about ice fishing wrap some line around a stick and be done with it.

Really depends on the use the rod/reel will see. For jigging, the rod is far more important but for trolling the reel is the critical component. You need to look at what it will be used primarily for.

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Really depends on the use the rod/reel will see. For jigging, the rod is far more important but for trolling the reel is the critical component. You need to look at what it will be used primarily for.

Good Point ade here! If your a jigging kinda guy I feel a sensitive rod (better quality) would take presedant over the reel. And if your a big bait caster I'd say reel. Jay I think we chatted about this a bit. I'd say for the average angler split the difference. Myself the Abu Garcia Ultracast 4000 on 7'rod from the fishing hole was $50 add 15-20$ for decent line and I'd say your set. Just my 2 cents

[camshaft]

My thought has always been that the most important piece of equipment between the two is the reel. Spend the money on a decent reel, as a "good" reel may last a lifetime.

The rod can always be upgraded as time goes on.

Many people have way more rods than they do reels. I spend good money on a few sized reels cuz I know I can use them on any rod. I only have a few reels but I have them in 1000, 2000, and 2500 sizes. This pretty much covers 99% of the fishing "I" will ever do, especially here in Alberta.

The rods just become a novelty at some point. Buying them for specific purposes....ie jigging, trolling, cranks, ect. Once u start to do this, u find yourself having a dozen rods soon. A good reel can universally be used for almost any type of fishing. Obviously this is where the whole spinning vs baitcasting debate may come in....

I'm a big believer in "u get what u pay for". I'm fishing on average between 30-40 times a year and want to know that my components will last over time. With this reliability obviously comes an increase in price.

More $ spent on a reel gives me better components, ie # of bearings and "type" (probably as important if not more), construction used in the reel(plastic vs metal vs aluminum vs magnesium ect), quality of drag (in terms of lbs and waterproof vs not), type of gears ect... which all adds up to the "smoothness" of a reel.

I also see the reel more important than simply line storage cuz it is whats used to actually bring in the fish. Without a good drag system...the fish will be lost or will snap off. Hence why it is so important to have your drag set properly. Much more R & D is spent by manufacturers on reel design and improving drag systems than on their rods. Rods are pretty basic by design and all do what they are intended for fairly well.

That being said, I do whole heartedly belive u will catch more fish with a higher end rod than a cheap one. Benefits of a better rod are that egonomics is better (lighter rod, better balanced), components are better (guides, reel seats, type of cork), and most importantly a better rod is constructed of a better "blank" (fiberglass vs graphite, im6, 7,8,9,10) which allows u to feel the bottom and tiny strikes better. And yes, most higher end rods have better warranties.

So in conclusion, IMO, the reel is way more important...spend the $ there.

[jeprli]

I've covered every type of water with this setup, Shimano Clarus(steelhead series) 8'6" 3/8-1oz medium heavy fast action(bought it 5-6 years ago for $88) and a shimano symetre 2500 with front drag.

With this combo i only use artificial lures, never put a baited rig on it, it's too fine for that(not that it can't handle it...). Instead it's always plugs and jigs, you can detect the bottom and read it like a blind man reads Braille, or feel every move your plug makes upon retrieve. From 1/8 jigs to 2oz plugs it casts them all, it gets a little tough to make a decent hookset with bigger lures but it's doable. Casts like a dream, 100ft with 3/4oz lure, no problem.

From Grand Forks walleye, bow river browns/rainbows, crawling valley pike, highwood river bull trout, bassano pike/walleye, saskatchewan monster carp and so on...for this year plan is to hit BC and get a bass or two on that rod, after that i'll retire it. Once i managed to pull a 30-40lb log out of Glenmore reservoir, the rod bent beyond recommended and some of the wrapping/epoxy cracked that day but it still casts and feels like the day I bought it.

You missed on a helluva deal at Russels, last time I was there they had a St.Croix scIII avid 9'6" medheavy/fast action for $114(usually about $230-$250 )
and a St.Croix Wild River SCII 3/8-2oz in 8'6" for $75(usually $150).
First for trout/walleye and second for pike, crazy deal for $204 tax included.
Too bad there is none left for you.

Whatever combo you decide on, remember that higher end rods are more sensitive and they are not as forgiving as lets say an uglystick, but they will definitely help you catch more fish. With a sensi rod you need equivalent reel that will compensate for rods stiffness(something with a smooth drag), shimano symetre is ideal, it offers technology of higher end brethren but is way cheaper.

Just make sure you match your reel/rod combo properly and you'll be a happy fisherman!

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by cutthroat666

Are we talking about spinning gear? What is the most common expected use for this rod and reel?

I know everyone wants to have a multi-use setup but the expected main use will change a lot of the responses you will get here. If you can guide us all a bit more I will give you my two cents and I'm sure a lot of other fellas will chime in also.

It would also help to know if you are on a similar budget to that seen on the other thread. Are we talking about $100 - 150 reels and rods here?

Oops...I should have stated, I'm thinking mainly of spinning gear.

My personal budget is kinda small, but this topic is just kinda general...not tailored to me specifically, so yes, we can be talking about $100+ reels.

That being said I think my most expensive rod/reel setup together was just over $100, with my others obviously being less.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by Cal

I'd rather have a $50 reel on a $10 dollar rod than the other way around if thats what your asking. If I remember corectly you already have a Shimano Sojourn dont you Geezle? Just spend $50 or so on a higher end shimano or phlueger reel and thats all the rig you will ever need and then some IMO, I've been fishing pretty avidly since I was 8 years old and I have maby owned 2 or 3 rigs that were worth much over $60. If your talking about ice fishing wrap some line around a stick and be done with it.

Yep, I do have a 6'6" Shimano Sojourn...you have a good memory I also now have a 7' medium/heavy Rhino rod, and a 6'6" light action Ugly Stick. I got the Shimano rod as part of a combo with a Shimano Sidestab 2500 which I really enjoy. The Rhino has a Shimano Solstace 3000 which isn't bad but I like the Sidestab a little more. The Ugly Stick just has an inexpensive (on sale for $20) Quantum reel that seems to do the trick pretty well also.

As for ice fishing, I'm using the Quantum reel and the Sidestab, as well as a little Daiwa ice reel, but you're absolutely right, for ice fishing you don't even really need that...just a chunk of wood and some line

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Really depends on the use the rod/reel will see. For jigging, the rod is far more important but for trolling the reel is the critical component. You need to look at what it will be used primarily for.

Good point. In my case I'm typically shorebound, so casting ability I think would be the main thing I'd be looking for.

Originally Posted by mooseknuckle

Good Point ade here! If your a jigging kinda guy I feel a sensitive rod (better quality) would take presedant over the reel. And if your a big bait caster I'd say reel. Jay I think we chatted about this a bit. I'd say for the average angler split the difference. Myself the Abu Garcia Ultracast 4000 on 7'rod from the fishing hole was $50 add 15-20$ for decent line and I'd say your set. Just my 2 cents

Yeah, I think splitting the difference is pretty much where I went with my open water setups. For my beefy sturgeon setup I spent a little more on the reel than the rod, but for my light setup I spent a little more on the rod than the reel. The in between-y one I think was pretty evenly balanced as far as cost goes.

And line is another story entirely

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Geezle

Yep, I do have a 6'6" Shimano Sojourn...you have a good memory I also now have a 7' medium/heavy Rhino rod, and a 6'6" light action Ugly Stick. I got the Shimano rod as part of a combo with a Shimano Sidestab 2500 which I really enjoy. The Rhino has a Shimano Solstace 3000 which isn't bad but I like the Sidestab a little more. The Ugly Stick just has an inexpensive (on sale for $20) Quantum reel that seems to do the trick pretty well also.

As for ice fishing, I'm using the Quantum reel and the Sidestab, as well as a little Daiwa ice reel, but you're absolutely right, for ice fishing you don't even really need that...just a chunk of wood and some line

Well heck, you've got things covered better than I do on the spinning rod side of things. You've got servicable gear ranging from light to med heavy so why even worry about spinning stuff. If you realy want another rod I'd recomend looking into some fly fishing gear or even better save your pennies and get a canoe or a fishing kayak. My success rate went WAY up when I bought my first canoe for 100 bucks. Its going to make a way bigger difference than adding another rod to an arsonal that already covers any freshwater fishing you'd want to do and then some.

[cutthroat666]

I think "split the difference" is sound advice for a multi-use setup. Personally, I have some very inexpensive gear as well as some terribly expensive gear. If someone were to make me choose to use only one piece of high end gear at a time and pair it with one low end piece, my choice would depend entirely on what type of fishing we were doing.

If I'm tossing a tiny lure to picky trout or walleye for example, I may choose to put any old reel on a high end rod so that I could take advantage of the ability to feel the slightest tick at the end of the line. If I'm pike fishing in "untouched" waters in Northern Alberta I would rather put a high end reel onto an Ugly Stick. Performance from the rod in that case is not critical but the reel is going to see some extensive use.

If a person has to stay down in price when purchasing equipment for a multi-purpose setup, I would say that person is most likely to enjoy the setup if neither of the components is comprimised more than the other. The alternative would be to buy one high end piece if you know that you will be able to invest in the other within a reasonable amount of time. Either way - the equipment will not catch fish for you. It may help to catch a few more, and you may enjoy the process more having better equipment but for the most part, the fish will still be caught by the angler.

[honker_clonker]

+1 for the 8'6'' clarus', I own 5 of them! Love those things. Chase salmon, pike, walleye, trout, steelhead, small tuna, smaller dorado, basically anything inshore with them. Pretty formidable stick for right around $100. There are better rods out there and there are worse but this line up has treated me well.

Your cheap rods tend to be general. UL, L, M, H. Thats the line up. Knock off reel seats and cheap guides are OK but I've had many of them start burring, frame breaks and I've broken a reel seat or 2 from cheap rods. Better rods have better components which last longer and perform better. The guides on the clarus are designed to give longer casts by quickly decreasing in size to reduce line slap on the blank. This really does work and you get the benefits of having longer casts.

You have to think about it as an investment. I bet you enjoy fishing and with your ugly stick and rhino rod its a good time. They tend to be kinda noodly in detecting hits. If you got yourself a nice graphite rod and some braid its a whole new world of feel. I can feel the tail kicking on 3" twister tails with the clarus and braid. Takes yourself to a new level of awareness.

As for reels I think i can say i've owned the entire price range. From $7 specials to my Stella, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Sure a $50 reel is smooth for a few seasons, but then the bail spring goes, and then some sort of clicking and all of a sudden anti reverse is gone (many a reel has had its demise in my hands). I favor $200 reels up now because you truly do get what you pay for.

Shimano stradics + are what I have found to my liking, because I have tried dam near everything and in the end they are the ones still kicking with no problems. They are crisp and tight and light. Lots of good features in them and you get what you pay for. I've got a few stradics pushing 5 years old and with minimal maintenance the handles still turn themselves. A $200 reel over say 6 years is like $35 bucks a year, compared to buying a cheapo every couple of years.

Its like everything: Save up, buy a good one the first time instead of getting a few crappy ones and buying the good one in the end anyways!

[Waxy]

To my mind it depends on application -

If you're jigging or live bait rigging, then spend the money on the rod. If you don't have the sensitivity to work the bait and you can't feel the bites, you'll never get to the point where you need the reel. IMHO, any decent reel in the $50 range paired with a $100-150+ rod is a better setup than a $50 rod and a $150 reel for this type of fishing.

For any kind of trolling and/or casting of larger lures, then spend the money on the reel. It's far more important in those applications than the rod. The rod can be just about anything from an Ugly Stik to the high end Shimano trolling rods, it'll get the job done. A cheap reel in this scenario will be a nightmare. For trolling, line counters are a must have IMHO.

In the en d, you get what you pay for, and I always encourage people to invest in top quality gear, the best they can afford, and then some lol. It's an investment that will last a lifetime if you do it right the first time, and provide a lot of enjoyment.

Waxy

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by Cal

Well heck, you've got things covered better than I do on the spinning rod side of things. You've got servicable gear ranging from light to med heavy so why even worry about spinning stuff. If you realy want another rod I'd recomend looking into some fly fishing gear or even better save your pennies and get a canoe or a fishing kayak. My success rate went WAY up when I bought my first canoe for 100 bucks. Its going to make a way bigger difference than adding another rod to an arsonal that already covers any freshwater fishing you'd want to do and then some.

I guess I should have said that I'm not really shopping for a rod or reel...just kinda wanted to bring it up as a topic of conversation

And you're right, now that I've pretty much got my bases covered as far as rods and reels go, there are a number of other fishing goodies that I'd like to get. Hopefully a fly rod will be in the budget for next year. A canoe would be awesome too, but right now I don't have a way to transport one, and nowhere to store it

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by cutthroat666

Either way - the equipment will not catch fish for you. It may help to catch a few more, and you may enjoy the process more having better equipment but for the most part, the fish will still be caught by the angler.

Well said! You should see the beat up old rod and hooks that my grandma uses when the season first opens up in Saskatchewan in the spring...and she catches TONS of walleye!

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Geezle

Oops...I should have stated, I'm thinking mainly of spinning gear.

Glad you made the clarification. Cause with fly gear I could fish successfully without a reel at all. Wouldn't be convenient, but possible.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Glad you made the clarification. Cause with fly gear I could fish successfully without a reel at all. Wouldn't be convenient, but possible.

Very true. I think it's more the fly fishermen that say that the reel is more for holding your line than anything else...though I could be mistaken

[mooseknuckle]

Well Jay you should just ask Santa for a new Rod and reel I find pictures laying oddly around the house sometimes gets the message across to him?

[Geezle]

Not likely!

Pretty sure I'll be on my own with this one

[jeprli]

Good to see somebody else using same/similar gear as mine. And wow you've got bunch of different species on it too. What reel did you pair it up with? You also prefer braided line, what a coincidence

The clear reason i prefer steelhead rods is their light construction, very sensitive tips, and enormous power, plus they're long, and for a shore fisherman it's a must.
Last month there was an on-line sale of rod blanks and I managed to get a Lamiglass XMG50 steelhead blank, 8'9" 1/2-1 3/4oz medium heavy/xtrafast, it's all wraped up just waiting for tip top to arrive and she's ready for her first fish. This is an inexpensive way to get the high-end gear without the price you would pay for a finished product. Not to mention all the possibilities you have with the gear available on the market. From superlight guides and reel seats to funky cork of all kinds, shapes and colors. Now i have a 8'9" rod that can handle any fish that this province has to offer, and it weighs in under 140 grams(around 5oz) which for my skinny hands means i can fish all day long and not get fatigued.

Someone mentioned Fenwick, in my opinion one of the best manufacturers when it comes to function, design and quality of work, also the price is undeniably the best for what you get. Rods made to last a lifetime!

My lure box consists of lots of handmade lures that i gathered from Europe, some from Japan, and of course Finland. A lot of them are custom made to my liking and to my preference. To fully enjoy them you have to have a high modulus graphite rod to understand each one of them, their buoyancy, vibration they produce...

[honker_clonker]

Originally Posted by jeprli

Good to see somebody else using same/similar gear as mine. And wow you've got bunch of different species on it too. What reel did you pair it up with? You also prefer braided line, what a coincidence

Baitcaster:
Cabo 30 wide with 30 lb Tuffline XP

Spinners:
Catalyst 30 Generation 1 with 10lb Tuffline XP
Stradic 4000 (white one) with 15 lb Tuffline XP
Stradic 4000 FI with 15 and 20 lb Tuffline XP
Catalyst 40 Gen 2 (garbage) with 30 Lb XP or mainly Shimano Stella SW 8000 with 50lb XP

The stella gets the nod for bigger salty critters or anything i feel like horsing around in the fresh stuff. The stradics are fun for little tunas and reef fish. With the 15 lb XP on the stradic FI I have some casts measured at the 130 yard mark with a 1 oz weight. The long rear grip also is alot less fatiguing because you just let it lever against your arm and its like an extension of your arm. Love those rods.

[WayneChristie]

I agree with the reel being a bit more important, you could manage to land a big fish with a broken rod tip, because Ive done it, but if your reel is messed up forget it. Your Rhino and uglystik should last you for a long time, unless you get excited and step on it like I did, mine had a LOT of years on it without one complaint. From 4 inch trout to something bigger than me at Campbell River. Always going to wonder just what the hell it was too, I never did get to see it)

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

I agree with the reel being a bit more important, you could manage to land a big fish with a broken rod tip, because Ive done it, but if your reel is messed up forget it. Your Rhino and uglystik should last you for a long time, unless you get excited and step on it like I did, mine had a LOT of years on it without one complaint. From 4 inch trout to something bigger than me at Campbell River. Always going to wonder just what the hell it was too, I never did get to see it)

That's kind of what I'm thinking too. Seems *very* generally speaking that a good reel will compensate for poor rod better than a good rod will compensate for a poor reel.

Was it a Rhino or a Ugly Stik that you stomped on? Not that it matters much..pretty sure if my tubby self stepped on either of them it wouldn't be pretty!

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by Geezle

That's kind of what I'm thinking too. Seems *very* generally speaking that a good reel will compensate for poor rod better than a good rod will compensate for a poor reel.

Was it a Rhino or a Ugly Stik that you stomped on? Not that it matters much..pretty sure if my tubby self stepped on either of them it wouldn't be pretty!

it was the ugly stik, I used it for more than 20 years, maybe even 25. I was in a rush to help my son with his first big pike and didnt look where I was going, ******* Oh well, I actually used the top part and the handle and built myself a heavy duty ice rod out of it Going to catch Moby pike with it this Saturday at PCR

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

it was the ugly stik, I used it for more than 20 years, maybe even 25. I was in a rush to help my son with his first big pike and didnt look where I was going, ******* Oh well, I actually used the top part and the handle and built myself a heavy duty ice rod out of it Going to catch Moby pike with it this Saturday at PCR

Funny you say you did that with the broken rod.

Zan who came out with us yesterday had 2 rods built this exact way. The first thing I said was that they looked like really beefy pike rods...didn't even look like they were broken

[WayneChristie]

I did the same thing with a light graphite rod I had too that was broken, made a perch rod out of it. I dont throw stuff out, it will always come in handy for something someday

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

I did the same thing with a light graphite rod I had too that was broken, made a perch rod out of it. I dont throw stuff out, it will always come in handy for something someday

Carefull there Wayne we don't want to see you on that A & E series "horders" it starts with an old rod or pair of windshield wipers and the next thing you know.....

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckle

Carefull there Wayne we don't want to see you on that A & E series "horders" it starts with an old rod or pair of windshield wipers and the next thing you know.....

you just never know I try and just keep the important stuff, anything to do with fishing

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

I did the same thing with a light graphite rod I had too that was broken, made a perch rod out of it. I dont throw stuff out, it will always come in handy for something someday

You remind me of my dad! He keeps EVERYthing!