Five reasons to BAN Spears and Atlatls

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by dogslayer403

Not asking for opinions just telling us how it is? Did you spend some time in the liberal govt by chance. I do not use spears nor will I ever but I like that I have the option its called freedom. You cant spew that load of crap out and not get opinions so if your not asking dont post maybe.

X1000


Sorry for the confusion. I simply decided to start this thread with the explanation expressed to me by the ABA. I have the same distaste after hearing the reasoning and concerns supporting this ABA resolution.


Be sure to write those emails to let the people responsible for this resolution know how you feel. Thanks.

[dogslayer403]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

WB's post was a bit tongue and cheek making a point that "someone else" was pushing it through for these reasons not him specifically.... It had a hint of sarcasm in the OP.

LC

I jumped the gun and missed the sarcasm my appoligies to WB please disregard my first post.

[dogslayer403]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

X1000


Sorry for the confusion. I simply decided to start this thread with the explanation expressed to me by the ABA. I have the same distaste after hearing the reasoning and concerns supporting this ABA resolution.


Be sure to write those emails to let the people responsible for this resolution know how you feel. Thanks.

I will do that just read the first post and got hot in the head and missed the sarcasam LOL glad to see you feel the same way thanks for passing the info along.

[greylynx]

Walking Buffalo:

Do you have an address for the correct Assistant Deputy Minister for me to pester?

Thank you.

[JohnB]

I'm thinking they should rename the ABA to BWBA.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

It all depends on just who is doing the shooting!
You cannot make a blanket statement and say say that one type of weapon kills better than another.
The operator is the biggest variable in anything.
You may not be able to kill a white tail at 150 yards with a patched round ball muzzle loader or a deer at 30 yards with a long bow, or a moose at 400 yards with a rifle but many can and do.

If one wants to start a big fight all one has to do is say that a particular cartridge - take the .223 for example , is unethical and not good for killling deer, then watch what happens!
Cat

Kanati listen to these words...you'll turn out alright!

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by JohnB

I'm thinking they should rename the ABA to BWBA.

Now lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater....I think the ABA has done alot of posititve things for bowhunting in the province. Now you say "yes, for bowhunters only" Well it is a special interest group is it not? Same goes for shotgun and ML clubs...all groups should colaberate and find compromise where the interests of all parties are addressed. To slam the ABA for the opinion of one member (even though he happens to be pres.) is foolish. The vast majority of membership likely does not share his sentiment, and would much prefer to see hunters working together, rather than against each other. A new president may be in order for the club, but the organization should definately remain.

[Ryry4]

I think we should start to ban banning things.

[dmcbride]

Brent,

I have just came to learn that the ABA is trying to make spears and atlatls illegal for hunting big game in Alberta. I have read the proposed regulation change for 2013.

I do not understand your reasoning for this change. Spears and Atlatls have been used for thousands of years along with Bows and arrows. They all have the means to dispatch an animal. I do realize that it does require a great deal of practice to become effective. The same can be said for the use of traditional archery equipment. Should we ban traditional archery equipment? While we are at it maybe we should ban bows and arrows all together and just use rifles. Every year we all hear stories of animals being wounded from an arrow. Heck I've seen a moose with a arrow sticking out of his hind quarter.

Fact is-Bad shots happen with rifles, bows, spears and atlatls. Just because someone isn't effective with a bow doesn't mean they aren't effective with a spear. What gives you the right to determine what is effective at dispatching an animal. Everybody has a different method to which they are effective.

If anything maybe you should be pushing for a standard for spears and atlatls, Just like arrow, length and broadhead size.

In the end us hunters need to stick together, not fight against ourselves

[Pudelpointer]

Hmmm, so let me see if I understand this dude's argument:

"I can't/won't/don't use a spear/atlatl";

"If some anti individual/group/organization argues that killing animals with bladed projectiles is not humane, they may realize broadheads are also bladed projectiles, and I will have difficulty arguing my morally superior view of the world";


What on earth is wrong with this guy? Doesn't he realize that the exact same argument can be made for banning selfbows/longbows/recurves and even compounds? If anything I would expect the president of the ABA to take a position vehemenently against this proposal if for no other reason than what a slippery slope we will find ourselves on!

Seriously, how many 1st world spear hunters are there?!!! Divide that number by 25 and you are probably over estimating the number of atlatl hunters.

Besides the stupidity of banning something no one / very few individuals are doing or will ever do, I have another concern: how do you legislate this? Do you simply ban bladed weapons for the taking of big game? Watch out bowhunters...

Do you ban all weapons except for "approved weapons"? Be careful what you wish for.

If you try and ban all bladed weapons other than an "approved arrow", what about knives? Do you ban hunting with knives? Afterall, a spear is simply a knife on the end of a stick. If you ban "hunting" with knives, what is the legality of cutting the throat of a wounded deer? I assume it would be the same as "dispatching" an arrow wounded deer with a rifle... illegal.

This proposal is full of potential pitfalls.

Why don't we start with banning rocks and sticks/clubs and see how it goes....

[6.5 shooter]

Five emails sent. Even though I am not a member of the ABA I will be, if for no other reason then to make sure this guy is NOT re elected.

We need to stick together on this one. The mice are not only chewing at the edges of the cheese, they are also working from within.

If we don't learn to get along (as hunters in general) they will take all our rights from us.

[evil72]

Really ABA???
Are they not the same group that said Crossbows were not primitive weapons. Wow, Crossbows date nearly as old as Longbows!!! I think they are scared of competition???
If you do not agree with the use of a particular method, Do Not use it. I do not agree with shooting Bows over 40 yards, so I do not do that. But I will defend the privilege of doing so. That is something that we as Hunters, Fishers, and Outdoors Persons must realize, all we do in the outdoors is a privilege, NOT A RIGHT!!!
So let us start standing together as one voice. Not fighting with each other, just as the Gov't. & Anties want. So while we are busy Bickering, not paying attention, they are taking away OUR privileges.(Grizzly Hunting) All in the guise of ethic,or you could say not flattering,or in poor taste. OMG REALLY
Stand as one or take up Knitting!!!!
Latter:Evil72
Shoot Lots & Shoot Well!

[rem338win]

It is taking this to help people see the issue with the ABA?
Anyway, I am always in on a good jabbing at the crossbow crowd, and I do believe that adding them to the acceptable list for an archery season would kill the archery season (its already dying).
But this is foolishness that should be expected from a protectionist group that has barely a layman's grasp on politics.
Wake up Brent, and stop fighting battles that don't exist. Maybe put some effort into gathering credible, factual harvest information on the archery seasons that just went draw for mule deer......

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Maybe put some effort into gathering credible, factual harvest information on the archery seasons that just went draw for mule deer......

If they did that they would get a membership out of me.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by evil72

Really ABA???
Are they not the same group that said Crossbows were not primitive weapons.

Oddly enuf,in his proposal he calls shotguns primitive weapons??

[timsesink]

I've been using a blowgun and Stanley hammer for the last several years, takes a few well placed shots and then a good head blow with Stanley but they always go down. Planning to ban that to?

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by timsesink

I've been using a blowgun and Stanley hammer for the last several years, takes a few well placed shots and then a good head blow with Stanley but they always go down. Planning to ban that to?

As an example of how stupid and paranoid people are: BLOW GUNS are PROHIBITED WEAPONS in Canada.... which was clearly a justified response to the high number of blow gun related homicides in the early 70's.

[st99]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I have always advocated getting rid of all the special seasons and letting it go to one big one, that way everybody could hunt wit what they wanted.
Cat

X2

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Walking Buffalo:

Do you have an address for the correct Assistant Deputy Minister for me to pester?

Thank you.

Flint, Shannon
Assistant Deputy Minister
Policy Division
Environment and Sustainable Resource Development
E-mail: shannon.flint@gov.ab.ca



Honourable Robin Campbell
Minister of ESRD
Email: west.yellowhead@assembly.ab.ca


Werry, Bill
Deputy Minister
Office of the Deputy Minister
Environment and Sustainable Resource Development
E-mail: bill.werry@gov.ab.ca

[NBFK]

I believe this whole prosal is to prevent an uproar from the anti-hunting community. A few videos and pictures of animals getting speared to death and all of a sudden all legal forms of hunting are under scrutiny, especially bowhunting. If you don't like it then join the ABA or your local fish and game association. Come up with proposals and input. It's way too easy for everyone to be sideline quarterbacks while a few actually go to bat to make sure hunters have plenty of opportunity and healthy game populations. For the record most ABA members and executive members are hunters. So please don't paint us with the brush of being elite over others. We are a special interest group so bowhunting is the goal of the ABA. Most people don't realize how much money and time the ABA puts back into the hunting community.

[Pudelpointer]

NBFK, so you think handful of YouTube videos of guys with spears is creating an uproar about hunting?

You should spend a bit of time looking at the crap on YouTube, or hell, WildTV if you want to see marginal ethical hunter behaviour.

NBFK, do you support the ABA proposal? Did the proposal go before the general membership in ANY way? What is your role with the ABA (executive)?

As for your "make your own proposals" comment, some of us do, and have. But what purpose does this proposal serve, other than pandering to the ignorant? The end result, much like the ABA's other proposal (making mule deer draws exclusive) is reduced opportunities for all (Albertans) but a select group of bowhunters.

[catnthehat]

A few animals getting speared to death differs from animal running through through town with arrows in them , or jaws blown off how?
I am also an archer, as well as a black powder shooter ad hunter with rifles and shotguns as well as long range, short range, hell any range guns.
One thing I hate is being labelled one thing or another because of a "special interest group" because my special interest is in fact the outdoors.

The associations I belong to are for the good of all sportsmen, not just their own special interests, and to attempt to deflect an attack by anti hunting groups on themselves by suggesting a ban on something a person has no interest in at all is the WRONG way to go about things.
That is not at all how to do it.
I hate black semi auto rifles, but that doesn't mean i want them banned from the ranges I attend or have them banned from hunting, but some do.
As I already said, that is the wrong way to go about things.

Letter campaigns, articles, and lobbying the government is the proper way, but not if it means at the expense of another group of hunters.
However that's just my opinion.
Cat

[NBFK]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

NBFK, so you think handful of YouTube videos of guys with spears is creating an uproar about hunting?

You should spend a bit of time looking at the crap on YouTube, or hell, WildTV if you want to see marginal ethical hunter behaviour.

NBFK, do you support the ABA proposal? Did the proposal go before the general membership in ANY way? What is your role with the ABA (executive)?

As for your "make your own proposals" comment, some of us do, and have. But what purpose does this proposal serve, other than pandering to the ignorant? The end result, much like the ABA's other proposal (making mule deer draws exclusive) is reduced opportunities for all (Albertans) but a select group of bowhunters.

When did the ABA support the mule deer draw? We had a committee together to bring factual information forward from hunters to try and fight it. From my understanding at the first agmag meeting Srd had their minds made up before they even sat down. Unless you are talking about making an archery only draw? Yes after bowhunters lost general opportunities we would like a kick at the cat.

Yes I am an executive member.

Yes I support this proposal 100% why would I want to bludgeon an animal to death with a pointy stick.

I would have to double check emails but I'm sure these proposals either go out in newsletters or emailed through the members list.

So I commented stating my opinion and you saw my neck and now your going for the finishing blow?

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Flint, Shannon
Assistant Deputy Minister
Policy Division
Environment and Sustainable Resource Development
E-mail: shannon.flint@gov.ab.ca



Honourable Robin Campbell
Minister of ESRD
Email: west.yellowhead@assembly.ab.ca


Werry, Bill
Deputy Minister
Office of the Deputy Minister
Environment and Sustainable Resource Development
E-mail: bill.werry@gov.ab.ca

Thank you Walking Buffalo.

I like the hand written and phone call stuff.

I no longer need any help.

Thanks again.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by NBFK

When did the ABA support the mule deer draw? We had a committee together to bring factual information forward from hunters to try and fight it. From my understanding at the first agmag meeting Srd had their minds made up before they even sat down.



Yes I support this proposal 100% why would I want to bludgeon an animal to death with a pointy stick.

For the same reason I support people who hunt with compounds and the very same reason some of the rifle hunters I know are dead set against bow hunting
altogether.
Cat

[3blade]

thoughts:

1. This is a response to some thing/event not commonly known. What does anyone have to gain by starting this? Nothing. So that means it started before the proposed ban.

2. This is not the ABA as a whole. It may be one guy who got mad about something on YouTube.

3. Someone is mad about the potential archery mule deer draws, or not getting his way with the crossbow thing. brought this up as a way to smear the ABA. The timing is highly suspicious and i dont believe in coincidence. I would like to believe WB is above that, based on his previous posts, and i am certainly not accusing him of anything.

4. Lets all go back to bashing APOS and liberals. It really is more fun than attacking ourselves.

For the record I disagree with a spear/atlatl ban

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by NBFK

When did the ABA support the mule deer draw? We had a committee together to bring factual information forward from hunters to try and fight it. From my understanding at the first agmag meeting Srd had their minds made up before they even sat down. Unless you are talking about making an archery only draw? Yes after bowhunters lost general opportunities we would like a kick at the cat.

Yes I am an executive member.

Yes I support this proposal 100% why would I want to bludgeon an animal to death with a pointy stick.

I would have to double check emails but I'm sure these proposals either go out in newsletters or emailed through the members list.

So I commented stating my opinion and you saw my neck and now your going for the finishing blow?

First, don't take anything here as a personal attack against you... unless you happen to be this Brent fellow.

Second, I am not looking to "finish you off", in fact I appreciate you stepping forward to provide some 'light' in dark places.

My Mule Deer comment is in reference to the ABA proposing that an "Archery Mule Deer Special License" be 'exclusive'; ie. you could not apply for / build priority in both the archery and all weapons seasons at the same time.

I am curious as to the membership of the ABA: has the executive ever polled its members to find out how many are solely bowhunters vs. rifle and bow hunters? Is the ABA supposed to represent all its members, or only the ones who are "real bowhunters", you know, the kind that refuse to pick up a rifle come November?

I find your "bludgeon an animal to death with a pointy stick" completely fallacious. Maybe you don't know what a "spear" is? Or maybe you don't want to look at the obvious similarity between an arrow and a spear? You do realize how an animal dies when shot with a broadhead?

[NBFK]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

First, don't take anything here as a personal attack against you... unless you happen to be this Brent fellow.

Second, I am not looking to "finish you off", in fact I appreciate you stepping forward to provide some 'light' in dark places.

My Mule Deer comment is in reference to the ABA proposing that an "Archery Mule Deer Special License" be 'exclusive'; ie. you could not apply for / build priority in both the archery and all weapons seasons at the same time.

I am curious as to the membership of the ABA: has the executive ever polled its members to find out how many are solely bowhunters vs. rifle and bow hunters? Is the ABA supposed to represent all its members, or only the ones who are "real bowhunters", you know, the kind that refuse to pick up a rifle come November?

I find your "bludgeon an animal to death with a pointy stick" completely fallacious. Maybe you don't know what a "spear" is? Or maybe you don't want to look at the obvious similarity between an arrow and a spear? You do realize how an animal dies when shot with a broadhead?

Yes I have seen an animal or two fall from a sharp broad head......I'm not posting on here debating it spear hunting is like bowhunting. I was posting because I was tired of reading a few mis informed posts.

I killed a bison, whitetail buck and antelope in the last 3 years with a thunderstick. I have 7 more animals In those three years with my stick and string. So yes I am a hunter and don't think ill of anyone who hunts without a bow. I really don't know how polling the membership over who hunts with a bow or bow and rifle proves anything. Yes there are full fledged bowmembers in the ABA. If the ABA had the attitude that you cannot be a hunter then I definitely wouldn't be volunteering my time with them.

I don't understand your mule deer comments? Bowhunters became to successful in zones that Srd alloyed 15% for an archery harvest. The general mule deer season was closed for the most part of Alberta and bowhunters were not allowed to have a harvest anymore? If you do not agree with the split season apply for rifle.

There's a general meeting every spring before the banquet where elections, decisions and opinions are voiced by members. So for 35 bucks you can come be a member and have input.

See you all there.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by 3blade

4. Lets all go back to bashing APOS and liberals. It really is more fun than attacking ourselves.

Attacking ourselves? It's interesting that you describe this thread as an attack on the hunting community where some of us see it as the ABA attacking us. The ABA has alienated themselves from the rest of the hunting community all by themselves with s**t like this. Wanting to ban spear chucking is just another example of how the ABA is more than willing to take hunting opportunities away from the rest of the hunting community. Maybe you think that the hunting community should side with the ABA and not the spear chuckers because....well.....because they are special, they represent bowhunters.

And cudos to you Walking Buffalo for bringing this to everyone's attention. A lot of us want to know about attacks on the hunting community and where they are coming from.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by NBFK

There's a general meeting every spring before the banquet where elections, decisions and opinions are voiced by members. So for 35 bucks you can come be a member and have input.

See you all there.

So this is your recruiting strategy? I don't think that you'll have spear chuckers lining up to support the ABA with $35 just to have their voice heard.