crossbow season?

It started when the late great Howard Hill shot an elk at 175 yards with his longbow. Now find fault with that Russ.

[russ]

I ask for answers and all I get is deflections.

[Stinky Coyote]

Because your question is......uh.........dull.

I can't believe your actually being serious.....your not seeing the 'advertising hype' that you see for just about every product?

Groups at range are one thing....energy, arrow flight time, and the SKILL level to make it happen have already been argued!

Just like Howard and his 175 yrd elk.....most of the hunters will have a useful range capability that is fractions the distance of that.

Rifles can shoot game to 1000 yrds these days (and lots further depending what forum you end up at) but the average hunters kill all their game inside 200 yrds and probably 98% inside 300 yrds.

So once again, up to the nut behind the wheel to figure out how far he's going to push himself with chosen gear. But in this case the gear is so close in capability to a compound bow that it is MOOT. It is/should be considered a.......BOW!

Somehow you think because of some advertising hype that average joe who'd have trouble with a 250 yrd shot with his rifle is going to be a superstar 100 yrd champ with a crossbow?

You'd better ease up on that stuff your smokin.

[russ]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Because your question is......uh.........dull.

I can't believe your actually being serious.....your not seeing the 'advertising hype' that you see for just about every product?

Groups at range are one thing....energy, arrow flight time, and the SKILL level to make it happen have already been argued!

Just like Howard and his 175 yrd elk.....most of the hunters will have a useful range capability that is fractions the distance of that.

Rifles can shoot game to 1000 yrds these days (and lots further depending what forum you end up at) but the average hunters kill all their game inside 200 yrds and probably 98% inside 300 yrds.

So once again, up to the nut behind the wheel to figure out how far he's going to push himself with chosen gear. But in this case the gear is so close in capability to a compound bow that it is MOOT. It is/should be considered a.......BOW!

Somehow you think because of some advertising hype that average joe who'd have trouble with a 250 yrd shot with his rifle is going to be a superstar 100 yrd champ with a crossbow?

You'd better ease up on that stuff your smokin, its steerin ya funny man.

Still deflecting & belittling rather than facing the obvious contradictions.

[Stinky Coyote]

your the one deflecting.......this entire issue is deflecting right off your head

no one is deflecting, your grasping at straws with this, its pretty hard to give you a serious answer at this point

its a bow that fits with the rest and would benefit Albertans much better that way, all the argueing is done, all the data is is there......now its just time to swallow it and accept it.....something your obviously having a hard time doing.......is it just pride keeping you going on this? its the only thing that makes sense to me.....get over it already.....move on.......let it go.....its just a bow

[russ]

deny deny deny, that's all you ever do.

[209x50]

deflect! We are talking about crossbows and you want to argue about advertising, now come on just who is deflecting now?

[russ]

Since this whole crossbow thing is all about marketing 209x50 why not answer my original question?

Nah, you'll just call me names and deflect.

[209x50]

Funny Russ I thought it was about hunting, as in I wanted to hunt during bow season with my bow.
Edited to add:
I disremember calling you names?

[mybuckstory]

Trying to get into crossbow hunting. Can you recommend a crossbow?

Originally Posted by mybuckstory

Trying to get into crossbow hunting. Can you recommend a crossbow?

Excalibur

[Rob Miskosky]

http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/

[wbl170]

just new at posting on this forum (which is great by the way ), but why should they have a seperate season! Is is it similiar to the primitive muzzleloaders with thier own season? (a pretty accurate weapon out to 200+ depending who's behind the wheel!!)

[whitetail Junkie]

I would love to see crossbow hunting in alberta,say in an october season,i'd probabley be the first guy to go buy a new excalibur.however i'm worried that if a crossbow season is opened to many more deer will be killed and that could possibly hurt the populations,so maybe its a good idea to leave things as is.(I'm not an archery hunter,only rifle)

[davvoe]

can anyone tell me, can the undersubscribed licenses be applied for online and by phone at the same time, or is it the person who can type the fastest who gets the first tags? If you apply on line do you know right away if you are drawn? does any one know??

[zonker892]

I dont think that crossbows should be allowed in the archery season. crossbows are not archery and crossbows do have advantages over bows, one being that a crossbow can be held at "full draw" those who bowhunt know this is a huge advantage. Another advantage is the out of the box accuracy that crossbows have, taking less time and skill to master. Aswell once the bow harvest rate is at 10-15% the season and limits are shorted. crossbows have a place but not durring archery season.

[uglyelk]

I have not read this whole tread yet , but still feel the need to chime in. I will eventually read all 17 pages.

Originally Posted by zonker892

I dont think that crossbows should be allowed in the archery season. crossbows are not archery and crossbows do have advantages over bows, one being that a crossbow can be held at "full draw" those who bowhunt know this is a huge advantage. Another advantage is the out of the box accuracy that crossbows have, taking less time and skill to master. Aswell once the bow harvest rate is at 10-15% the season and limits are shorted. crossbows have a place but not durring archery season.

Think I'll have to disagree mate.

What about folks who may have joint damage or disease, should they stop bow hunting because they can no longer hold a full draw? You want to relegate us old geesers to rifle only season? Thank's but no thanks. Besides the colder it gets the tougher it is for the arthritic folks. They should hunt early because they hardly function in the cold.

I'll hunt when the law will allow me too. What makes you so friggin special that you get exclusive rights on the early season.

I'm entitled to a bow permit because my elbows are shot, full of bone chips and arthritis. I can hold a full draw, but then the next week I'm pretty much screwed because of all the pain and swelling in my elbows. I can hardly manage to drive my truck, makes working kind of tough. That's not going to stop me however. I'm planning to get fitted with a bow. And when my body shuts down because of a day of hunting or a day of practice, I'll take the cross bow out!

I lost most of rifle season last year because the arthritis moved into my eyes. I could not see the end of my rifle barrel and spent the month of November sitting in a dark room because the sun was definetly something to be feared.

I can see fine now but the elbows are gone for ever. So I expect I'll be doing lots of cross bow hunting and my son will suddenly own a compound bow.

Zonker If you run into an old guy with no hair hunting with a cross bow in 412this year please let him know who you are and that you believe he has no right to hunt this season. Good chance it might be me. If so I'll leave the bow in the tree stand and come down and sort you out on the ground. You'd be surprised just what these folks are capable of who can't hold a full draw.

Dude we got enough issues with the anti crowd without other hunters trying to grab out rights as well. Give your head as shake. I suspect your some Johnny come lately and I was harvesting game long before you were a glint in your papas eye. But remember this, if everyone is against us, why do you need to be too?

In a few years when I get a quad permit to go where and when I wish because I'm maybe not getting around like I use too, I suspect there may be some other zonker types out their who may wish to question my right to do so. I have two words for you, one starts with an f and the other on ends in an f. Gentlemen I will hunt within the law for as long as I am capable. And it is of no concern of yours.

As long as we as a community bicker amoung each other the anti's will take the remainder of our rights. Time we pulled together instead of this eletist bs I see all of the time. We are not the enemy. Stop fighting your own army.

End of rant!

[munyee4321]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

I have not read this whole tread yet , but still feel the need to chime in. I will eventually read all 17 pages.



Think I'll have to disagree mate.

What about folks who may have joint damage or disease, should they stop bow hunting because they can no longer hold a full draw? You want to relegate us old geesers to rifle only season? Thank's but no thanks. Besides the colder it gets the tougher it is for the arthritic folks. They should hunt early because they hardly function in the cold.

I'll hunt when the law will allow me too. What makes you so friggin special that you get exclusive rights on the early season.

I'm entitled to a bow permit because my elbows are shot, full of bone chips and arthritis. I can hold a full draw, but then the next week I'm pretty much screwed because of all the pain and swelling in my elbows. I can hardly manage to drive my truck, makes working kind of tough. That's not going to stop me however. I'm planning to get fitted with a bow. And when my body shuts down because of a day of hunting or a day of practice, I'll take the cross bow out!

I lost most of rifle season last year because the arthritis moved into my eyes. I could not see the end of my rifle barrel and spent the month of November sitting in a dark room because the sun was definetly something to be feared.

I can see fine now but the elbows are gone for ever. So I expect I'll be doing lots of cross bow hunting and my son will suddenly own a compound bow.

Zonker If you run into an old guy with no hair hunting with a cross bow in 412this year please let him know who you are and that you believe he has no right to hunt this season. Good chance it might be me. If so I'll leave the bow in the tree stand and come down and sort you out on the ground. You'd be surprised just what these folks are capable of who can't hold a full draw.

Dude we got enough issues with the anti crowd without other hunters trying to grab out rights as well. Give your head as shake. I suspect your some Johnny come lately and I was harvesting game long before you were a glint in your papas eye. But remember this, if everyone is against us, why do you need to be too?

In a few years when I get a quad permit to go where and when I wish because I'm maybe not getting around like I use too, I suspect there may be some other zonker types out their who may wish to question my right to do so. I have two words for you, one starts with an f and the other on ends in an f. Gentlemen I will hunt within the law for as long as I am capable. And it is of no concern of yours.

As long as we as a community bicker amoung each other the anti's will take the remainder of our rights. Time we pulled together instead of this eletist bs I see all of the time. We are not the enemy. Stop fighting your own army.

End of rant!

Just a note, if one suffers from such unfortunate problems and cannot hold a bow at full draw. A special permit can be obtained for the use of x-bows in the archery season, head to your local F&W and let them know of your situation and it will be up to them to decide if you qualify for a permit.

Good on ya, uglyelk. I'm with you mate.

This thread has now enjoyed in excess of 26,478 views and 495 responses to date; apparently one of largest counts of any topic in the history of this forum. One regular poster dutifully reminds us that the thread has been ongoing since 2006 without apparent resolution. I suggest that the enormous interest obviously generated by this topic has to be a reliable indicator of the hunting public pulse on the issue. And again I respectfully submit some more aspects to the discussion that I believe deserve further deliberation.

Whilst some will continue to argue that the crossbow has a longer and therefore ‘unfair’ range, the International Archery Federation (FITA) states that the longest target distance for a vertical bow shall be at 90 metres (98.424 yards).

As some still argue about ‘ethics’ and unfair distances, there are no doubt many of us who will admire the late great Howard Hill for apparently shooting a bull elk at some 175 yards distance no less; albeit after several tries with his longbow.

Others argue that notwithstanding ‘access’, bowhunters and Sunday hunting can take care of harvesting sufficient ungulate numbers in accordance with biological goals. But even so, there are now estimated (by F&W aerial survey) to be 900 plus elk in an area of WMU 212 north of Black Diamond. And according to the Area Biologist, this number is to be reduced to a more ideal biological goal of approximately 400 as soon as possible. Apparently even the subsequent rifle and primitive weapon hunts for “Antlerless Elk” have not yet met F&W harvest objectives in this normally “Archery Only” area.

And despite that some continue to argue that crossbows are not bows, the fact of the matter is that the Archery Trades Association agrees that they are.

Then there are those who proclaim that the crossbow provides ‘unfair advantages’: But who was ever elected to decree what is and is not fair? And to whom: hunter or animal? Not everybody wants to hunt for horns, as the expression has it. Nor just for the need to be recognised for having ‘done it the hard way’ either. Some of us simply want to harvest some wild meat which is known to be better for us (CWD etc., notwithstanding).

When alternative and proven “primitive” tools are known to exist, nobody should be forced by unwarranted regulation to consider a hunting instrument that does not best serve their own expert standards. Many landowners and other folks, especially those whose daily lives bring them in contact with birds or animals, are well versed in the production of food and are most particular about the way an animal ought to be cleanly killed and processed. And they (or through their agent) also deserve the right to use an efficient tool that they can be entirely comfortable with; especially on their own currently “Archery Only” land.

Whilst some elected representatives and others will suggest that the so-called primitive weapons seasons provide an opportunity to kill something with a crossbow, there are some of us who have no need to prove anything in this regard. It’s simply a matter of allowing an appropriate tool with which to do the job efficiently at an opportune time! Appearance, noise, range and efficiency are but some of the legitimate non-participant public concerns. Notwithstanding known air-weapons, an “authorised” crossbow that delivers the accepted “sharp blade” is the only tool that meets all of the criteria so often demanded; and which will assist in doing that job as well as we honestly know how to.

And then there are those who believe that there is a crossbow use provision available to anyone who can provide a medical doctor’s signature to the effect that they (and I quote) ‘suffer from any physical condition, affliction or handicap that is permanent in nature’ and, ‘upper limb paralysis or amputation which prevents them from utilizing conventional archery equipment’. This is in fact subject to a Fish and Wildlife officer’s final approval: no matter what any learned MD may have signed his name too!

Whilst much of the opposition to more liberal crossbow regulations appears to come from the younger set, many of the hunting and fishing fraternity are entering a time in their lives where certain physical activities become harder and harder to perform. Some are already at this stage and, perhaps because of age related problems, they are dropping out of the game. Medical doctors regularly prescribe new drugs to address such maladies and, regretfully, there can be significant side effects along with any life prolonging benefits. Prescription drugs are known to effectively control bad cholesterol, but limb joint and muscular pain as a result of their use can be debilitating enough to curtail the use of conventional archery equipment. It’s about time that Alberta regulators and some other stubborn stakeholders in this issue reflect a more enlightened approach.

And finally: There are many of us who have long paid our dues, so to speak. After a law abiding productive life of providing for families and paying taxes, some of us are a bit worn out: And for anybody or group to stand in the way of any legitimate attempts to let us stay in the game, close to home with tools we can still use, is something to be truly ashamed of. Science, not selfish sentiment, should rule; just as it did when bowhunting in Alberta was first accepted by those in charge at the time. Who's in charge now?

Sharpedge

[russ]

Originally Posted by Sharpedge

Whilst some will continue to argue that the crossbow has a longer and therefore ‘unfair’ range, the International Archery Federation (FITA) states that the longest target distance for a vertical bow shall be at 90 metres (98.424 yards).

Since when did 90m become an ethical hunting distance? The 10 ring is the size of a CD Rom for crying out loud and trust me, it takes PERFECT form, top end equipment and weather conditions to consistently hit the yellow at that distance.

[zonker892]

UglyElk I said nothing about not letting disabled people hunt with a crossbow, I simply ment that they should not be allowed to be used in archery season beacause of the advantage. Should rifles be allowed in archery season? of course not. And for the folks that think you can shoot an elk at 175 yard with a bow should get their facts straight, a bullet will travel 5 miles, can you kill an elk at five miles? doubt it. I think that was a sad way to debate something on the forum uglyelk, by calling me out. Talk about sticking together PFFFT!

[outbackpat]

I would shoot my compound against anyone that has a crossbow anytime! I wonder if they did have a crossbow season if the auto to deer related accident's would go down any. I know rifle hunter's that have harvested less game than me and my poor little compound bow! Their the one's who don't hunt in the rain or the cold, you know the excuse t-shirt type's.

[russ]

Originally Posted by outbackpat

I would shoot my compound against anyone that has a crossbow anytime! I wonder if they did have a crossbow season if the auto to deer related accident's would go down any. I know rifle hunter's that have harvested less game than me and my poor little compound bow! Their the one's who don't hunt in the rain or the cold, you know the excuse t-shirt type's.

you haven't kept up with the technology have you? 3" groups @ 100 yds and you think you can beat that?

Originally Posted by russ

you haven't kept up with the technology have you? 3" groups @ 100 yds and you think you can beat that?

According to your myopic thinking, Howard Hill and his ilk would not be allowed to hunt today, because of their uncanny and thus "unfair" accuracy!

People will always push the limits of any tool. That's how we've advanced from the stone-age.

Sharpedge

[russ]

Originally Posted by Sharpedge

According to your myopic thinking, Howard Hill and his ilk would not be allowed to hunt today, because of their uncanny and thus "unfair" accuracy!

People will always push the limits of any tool. That's how we've advanced from the stone-age.

Sharpedge

the only one with myopic thinking is you. For you it's always about the easiest path, the quickest way to self satisfaction, the fast path to the top no matter the cost.

Howard Hill? Good editing and story telling, no different than Wyatt Earp, Daniel Boone, Davey Crockett and Jim Bowie.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by russ

you haven't kept up with the technology have you? 3" groups @ 100 yds and you think you can beat that?

not that you shoot groups at critters but they do tell you a bit about your tune....i pulled my bow out a few weeks ago, the last time i shot it was sept. 3rd last season, and set ole bucky up at 56 yrds and put two into the middle of the kill only 1" apart....

what would that group have been at 100?....

who cares

point is....todays archery tackle IS that good, i can put it down for months and months and pick up exactly where i left off, just like a gun, or, wait for it.....a crossbow

and accuracy wise or distance wise with guys that know how to set their shizzo up for maximum potential will be too close, slight edge to the crossbow on the range maybe, but dragging a crossbow around the field would be like dragging around a benchrest rifle compared to a regular sporter.....more than a slight edge to the regular bow there....

keep weighing it out there russ....big picture they are as close to each other as you can get, 10x closer than traditional equipment is to the compound stuff right now

keep on fighting though, stubborness isn't the worst of virtues

Originally Posted by russ

the only one with myopic thinking is you. For you it's always about the easiest path, the quickest way to self satisfaction, the fast path to the top no matter the cost.

Howard Hill? Good editing and story telling, no different than Wyatt Earp, Daniel Boone, Davey Crockett and Jim Bowie.

NO it's NOT about ME Russ. I have only ever wanted to make a difference in the life of a child. And at this time I have the interests of some veterans at heart too! My entire thrust is about inclusion, not exclusion.

And I refuse to believe that the BC, Ontario and some other enlightened hunting legislators, are all fools.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

not that you shoot groups at critters but they do tell you a bit about your tune....i pulled my bow out a few weeks ago, the last time i shot it was sept. 3rd last season, and set ole bucky up at 56 yrds and put two into the middle of the kill only 1" apart....

what would that group have been at 100?....

who cares

point is....todays archery tackle IS that good, i can put it down for months and months and pick up exactly where i left off, just like a gun, or, wait for it.....a crossbow

and accuracy wise or distance wise with guys that know how to set their shizzo up for maximum potential will be too close, slight edge to the crossbow on the range maybe, but dragging a crossbow around the field would be like dragging around a benchrest rifle compared to a regular sporter.....more than a slight edge to the regular bow there....

keep weighing it out there russ....big picture they are as close to each other as you can get, 10x closer than traditional equipment is to the compound stuff right now

keep on fighting though, stubborness isn't the worst of virtues

With your rationale then why limit to just including crossbows? Why not include traditional muzzleloaders?

Once you keep re-drawing the rules to "keep up with the times" you have soon changed the whole intent of the rule in the first place.

Put whatever spin you want on it, the definition of a legal bow and arrow would have to be changed to accomodate the noisy banter of a small group for the inclusion of crossbows.

I am proud of Morton and the current group running SRD that see through the BS put forward from a small group that don't want to play within the rules.

Maybe I should lobby the government so I can hunt with my centerfire rifle during the various primitive weapons seasons in the Province. Afterall They both propel the bullet by the same means....

[russ]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

.i pulled my bow out a few weeks ago, the last time i shot it was sept. 3rd last season, and set ole bucky up at 56 yrds and put two into the middle of the kill only 1" apart....

Missed ya at outdoor FITA provincials - odd thing though at least one Canadian team member was there and strangely no 1" groups @ 50m. And that was with what I would call superior equipment.

hmmmm.

spin spin spin.

not very many 60's shot at 90m (5.25" groups) either, but hey the weather was only perfect for it.

[209x50]

I see the house of cards trembling and even other archery associations are disgusted with the actions of the ABA. Just read the letter to the editor in this month's AO on the sneak attempt by the ABA to get the Federation of Canadian Archers to state publicly that crossbows are not archery equipment. They were denied and the letter writer, the Bow hunting Director for the Ontario Archery Association states and I quote, "The ABA are a selfish lot who are afraid they might have to share some of their generous archery season..."
It is disgusting when the strongest argument the ABA has is that there will be more hunters in the field and that bow permits will have to go on draw.