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  #31  
Old 10-18-2017, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by fordtruckin View Post
So studs don't contribute to the loss of any dry traction?
Why would they? They do not elevate the tread away from contacting the ground. The pockets they recess into also flex and conform to surfaces just like the rest of the tire. I think the only drawbacks are noise and pavement wear, but I could really give a hoot about pavement wear when safety is improved. Pavement is a wear item just like brake pads and tires.
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  #32  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:08 AM
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So studs don't contribute to the loss of any dry traction?
Not appreciably... They do change driving feel a bit for sure and people misinturpret that often, but all the rubber is still in contact with the asphalt. The studs do not support the weight of the vehicle and compress in the tire when on hard surfaces. The pin is is only ever so slightly protruding past the tread to begin with.
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  #33  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Why would they? They do not elevate the tread away from contacting the ground. The pockets they recess into also flex and conform to surfaces just like the rest of the tire. I think the only drawbacks are noise and pavement wear, but I could really give a hoot about pavement wear when safety is improved. Pavement is a wear item just like brake pads and tires.
Agreed. In places like Alberta we are replacing our road surfaces because of damage from frost heave etc long before the extra wear factor of studs ever becomes an issue...
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  #34  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:24 AM
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Not appreciably... They do change driving feel a bit for sure and people misinturpret that often, but all the rubber is still in contact with the asphalt. The studs do not support the weight of the vehicle and compress in the tire when on hard surfaces. The pin is is only ever so slightly protruding past the tread to begin with.
Tirebob, do allseasons (like the BFG a/t/etc), that people get studded, do they have the same "give" below the studs? Just curious.
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  #35  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:46 AM
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Tirebob, do allseasons (like the BFG a/t/etc), that people get studded, do they have the same "give" below the studs? Just curious.
There will be no real difference that would be detectable to the driver when comparing winter vs all season casing structures when comparing the amount of stud compression. You have a vehicle weight multiple thousand of pounds spreading that entire weight across a small rubber surface over a cushion of air. The tiny tip of a tire stud is not going to support that kind weight without compressing the rubber and air cushion underneath period.

I am sure if you could measure the difference with a nuclearthingamabobweightmonitor blah blah there could potentially be a .0000000001 of a gram variance (my layman scientific term lol), but in application of real life, it just isn't so...

You will experience far greater losses of traction from rubber compound changes due to temperatures than you will ever experience from the studs in a tire...
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  #36  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:06 AM
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Duratracs suck in winter, no way, no need for studded if living city, rural, though, yes
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  #37  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:10 AM
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Duratracs suck in winter, no way, no need for studded if living city, rural, though, yes
IMHO, I would rather have the added traction of studs to move away from a dangerous situation, which usually happens more in the cities, even though they "plow/sand/etc".

But yes, ice is usually not dealt with in the country, so a must have for sure.
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  #38  
Old 10-19-2017, 06:20 PM
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Nokian hakkapelittas and studded for me. This sets on a 3/4 ton diesel have tried a few of the other premium studded winters and for me these are still the best. I drive about 100kms a day hwy and this will be my 4th winter on this set so they wear very well, ran the last set on my gas job for 5 seasons
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  #39  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:48 PM
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I used studded Firestone Winterforce LT on my truck, and it was great. Excellent winter tire, I found they had larger voids vs all other dedicated winter tires, so they would clear deeper snow better. I never had any issue with traction (except the self-inflicted kind), even through some of the worst storms over the passes.

I should say, that was a 2014 F150HD, that I didn't tow with in the winter, but I don't imagine that tire would have any issues at all.
I ran these as well (studded) on a 3/4 T GM Savanna, when I was in the field. Bit of weight in the back and they provided very good traction.
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  #40  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Why would they? They do not elevate the tread away from contacting the ground. The pockets they recess into also flex and conform to surfaces just like the rest of the tire. I think the only drawbacks are noise and pavement wear, but I could really give a hoot about pavement wear when safety is improved. Pavement is a wear item just like brake pads and tires.
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Not appreciably... They do change driving feel a bit for sure and people misinturpret that often, but all the rubber is still in contact with the asphalt. The studs do not support the weight of the vehicle and compress in the tire when on hard surfaces. The pin is is only ever so slightly protruding past the tread to begin with.


So how come law enforcement doesn’t run studs on their vehicles in the winter??l
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  #41  
Old 10-20-2017, 06:36 AM
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Because those guys know how to drive. Fleet taxis and buses run the same tires year round for the same reason. I haven't bothered with winter tires in years as everything I own is 4wd, even in the old rwd days, for city and main hiway driving all seasons were fine. I think tire companies have done a good job of creating a need, and making money on extra wheel sets, storage and change overs, very clever.
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  #42  
Old 10-20-2017, 06:45 AM
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Because those guys know how to drive. Fleet taxis and buses run the same tires year round for the same reason. I haven't bothered with winter tires in years as everything I own is 4wd, even in the old rwd days, for city and main hiway driving all seasons were fine. I think tire companies have done a good job of creating a need, and making money on extra wheel sets, storage and change overs, very clever.
I was going to post a reason as to how 1977 this thinking is, but it think I'll go talk to the wall instead.
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  #43  
Old 10-20-2017, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fordtruckin View Post
So how come law enforcement doesn’t run studs on their vehicles in the winter??l
Studded tires are not approved for high speed pursuit. They do not carry high enough speed ratings. I will note I have many police officers as clients who wish they were allowed to run studded tires, but that is neither here nor there if they are not allowed by their own regulations.

I am not saying studded tires feel and handle identically to non studded tires. I am saying that for normal driving situtations they do not have an appreciable dry weather tration loss due to the tire studs, plain and simple. So much BS floats around from the days when studs were villified by governments (mostly south of the border) because of the extra costs associated to the wear and tear on highways etc, and they fell out of favour. Stud and tire technology has changed a lot and it not the issue as much as it once was, and thanks to northern countries all over the world recognizing the benefits vs the drawbacks, they have been making a resurgence and it helps.

By no means is it a magic bullet, but it is an added layer of ice control. It isn't for everyone, but it definitely is for others. I personally.do not NEED studs in my winter tires, but I sure do enjoy having them driving in on township roads in the dead of winter!

Last edited by tirebob; 10-20-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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  #44  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:11 AM
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I was going to post a reason as to how 1977 this thinking is, but it think I'll go talk to the wall instead.
Birds of a feather.
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  #45  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:34 AM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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Love the Haks, theyre a fantastic winter tire. I run Toyo Observes myself, a 2014 F150 4x4, and I ran them on my last chevy, especially since most of the new trucks are getting so much better performance and lighter as the years go by, its not a great recipe for traction. Ive been a huge advocate for winter tires on every vehicle that operates in winter conditions, and mostly for the ice, since most of our truck tires are M+S and will chew through snow, for the most part. Remember, 4x4 just makes you go forward better, not stop before the sudden stopping driver before you, or turn on that wind blown ice sheet we all know and love on the highways.
As for studs, I dont run them personally, but I never have, so I cant say anything about them, I just carry a set of chains for the really ugly moments.

Cheers.
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  #46  
Old 10-20-2017, 09:10 AM
.257Weatherby .257Weatherby is offline
 
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Originally Posted by J0HN_R1 View Post
For dedicated winter tires, you can't go wrong with either Nokian ___ or Bridgestone Blizzaks. Preferably studded.

I run General Grabber AT2 on my Tacoma though, year-round... Studded too !
Running studded Snow tires year round?
Really....
Rob
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  #47  
Old 10-23-2017, 10:23 PM
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Been happy with my All Terrain T/A KO/2's on my diesel Chevy..
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  #48  
Old 10-23-2017, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fordtruckin View Post
So how come law enforcement doesn’t run studs on their vehicles in the winter??l
Because I'm not the quartermaster? I was just thinking of LE tires recently, especially those on rural RCMP vehicles and how much more important premium traction is when other emergency services are far away. They should be getting the best winter tires available, cost be damned. I'd sooner see them on Nokian's than some budget winter tires form China. When they have to be out in the worst weather to help those who probably should have stayed home (the perpetually unprepared in both equipment and driving skill) they should have excellent tires.

As for what LE chooses I know you're in Montana, but what do Alaska Statey's run on their buggies? One might rationalize that they might opt for something a bit better.
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  #49  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
Studded tires are not approved for high speed pursuit. They do not carry high enough speed ratings. I will note I have many police officers as clients who wish they were allowed to run studded tires, but that is neither here nor there if they are not allowed by their own regulations.



I see way more people running studs here in Montana then I’ve ever seen growing up and going to high school in Alberta.



I am not saying studded tires feel and handle identically to non studded tires. I am saying that for normal driving situtations they do not have an appreciable dry weather tration loss due to the tire studs, plain and simple. So much BS floats around from the days when studs were villified by governments (mostly south of the border) because of the extra costs associated to the wear and tear on highways etc, and they fell out of favour. Stud and tire technology has changed a lot and it not the issue as much as it once was, and thanks to northern countries all over the world recognizing the benefits vs the drawbacks, they have been making a resurgence and it helps.

By no means is it a magic bullet, but it is an added layer of ice control. It isn't for everyone, but it definitely is for others. I personally.do not NEED studs in my winter tires, but I sure do enjoy having them driving in on township roads in the dead of winter!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Because I'm not the quartermaster? I was just thinking of LE tires recently, especially those on rural RCMP vehicles and how much more important premium traction is when other emergency services are far away. They should be getting the best winter tires available, cost be damned. I'd sooner see them on Nokian's than some budget winter tires form China. When they have to be out in the worst weather to help those who probably should have stayed home (the perpetually unprepared in both equipment and driving skill) they should have excellent tires.

As for what LE chooses I know you're in Montana, but what do Alaska Statey's run on their buggies? One might rationalize that they might opt for something a bit better.
I just know out of all the local agencies including mhp here in Montana’s snow belt, mine is the only one that runs studs and it’s on a 3/4 ton truck. I also am the only one that is fully decked out with recovery equipment chains all around and a 12k winch. When I showed up with studs everyone looked at me odd. I just always figured except on ice you lose traction with studs ... dry pavement etc... personally I’m not a fan but hey I won’t turn down new tires for a work truck when it’s not coming from my budget.
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