Letter to the ministers to reduce draw wait times.

[lilsundance]

Originally Posted by chuck

I am not complaining. I'm offering a solution. And for the 100th time. Why does a $10 application fee and a $150 licence cost make it a rich mans sport?

Because as it is some people have to scrimp and save all year long in the hopes they can afford the tag and the gas money to go out for a few days or a couple weekends hunt in the hopes they can harvest enough meat to last most of the year. Some people work for min wage or just above and most of their money goes to rent and food. They deny themselves luxuries for most of the year so they can take a chance (and a much needed holiday) for a hunting trip. And before you say they should get a better job or an education to get a better job. Well maybe they are getting that education, hence no money for over priced tags. If your just a meat hunter I highly doubt anyone with a low income will pay $150 for a tag. Hence by charging that much for a tag you just took a portion of the hunting community out of the equation making it "a rich mans sport". I understand what you are trying to do, but your thoughts about how to do it are highly flawed in my opinion.

[spoiledsaskhunter]

well chuckie...............from someone who doesn't know how to put a sentence together (sounds like I can put my thoughts together or so many of us wudn't agree), guess u'd better go back to the drawing board and try a different way of whining.

ur being shouted down here, so try again....hee, hee!

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Because as it is some people have to scrimp and save all year long in the hopes they can afford the tag and the gas money to go out for a few days or a couple weekends hunt in the hopes they can harvest enough meat to last most of the year. Some people work for min wage or just above and most of their money goes to rent and food. They deny themselves luxuries for most of the year so they can take a chance (and a much needed holiday) for a hunting trip. And before you say they should get a better job or an education to get a better job. Well maybe they are getting that education, hence no money for over priced tags. If your just a meat hunter I highly doubt anyone with a low income will pay $150 for a tag. Hence by charging that much for a tag you just took a portion of the hunting community out of the equation making it "a rich mans sport". I understand what you are trying to do, but your thoughts about how to do it are highly flawed in my opinion.

Well said. There are many kids right out of high school that are working for minimum wage. Have to pay rent and all the bills. They are surviving. Not cool to price them out. I know of a couple people who love the sport, but are disabled and can't work. They also have a minimum income.
You want more opportunity? How about NO tags for non residents in the draw system? No more landowner tags? ( or would that be less opportunity for YOU?) How about a dual draw system? One that is lottery only for 25% of the tags, and one that you wait your turn. Let the lottery tags be the ones with a high price tag. Opportunity for all. Albertan's that is.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Because as it is some people have to scrimp and save all year long in the hopes they can afford the tag and the gas money to go out for a few days or a couple weekends hunt in the hopes they can harvest enough meat to last most of the year. Some people work for min wage or just above and most of their money goes to rent and food. They deny themselves luxuries for most of the year so they can take a chance (and a much needed holiday) for a hunting trip. And before you say they should get a better job or an education to get a better job. Well maybe they are getting that education, hence no money for over priced tags. If your just a meat hunter I highly doubt anyone with a low income will pay $150 for a tag. Hence by charging that much for a tag you just took a portion of the hunting community out of the equation making it "a rich mans sport". I understand what you are trying to do, but your thoughts about how to do it are highly flawed in my opinion.

How many of theses guys saving and scrimping to fill the freezer are putting in for coveted tags such as suffield antlered elk, mountain moose, Trophy sheep draws? I would think if they are that hard up they would be hunting meat animals that are more of a guaranteed harvest and would be after cow elk, cow moose, antlerless deer etc so would an increase on trophy tags would really affect them would it??

[purgatory.sv]

Hunting is now a privilege?

I do not know how to make it balanced?

This thread is not offensive.

It’s just another point of view.

I am not an original being but grew up in Alberta.

At one point in my journey I made the decision to become an Albertan.
The federal government asked me.

[MathewsZ7]

Another question to ask is why there isnt there a late season tag in all WMU's that border a park or sanctuary?? Lots of places that would sustain this and give the opportunity at great rams such as they kill in 438. Section off the WMUs just like 438 is to take the pressure off the rest of the zone and just have them border areas in the open Nov. season.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Another question to ask is why there isnt there a late season tag in all WMU's that border a park or sanctuary?? Lots of places that would sustain this and give the opportunity at great rams such as they kill in 438. Section off the WMUs just like 438 is to take the pressure off the rest of the zone and just have them border areas in the open Nov. season.

And actually follow the Sheep Management Plan?

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

And actually follow the Sheep Management Plan?

They are so far out to lunch on any management plan in Alberta that hopes of them ever following one is nothing but an empty dream!!

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by chuck

I am not complaining. I'm offering a solution. And for the 100th time. Why does a $10 application fee and a $150 licence cost make it a rich mans sport?

I might not agree with everything exactly as you wrote it I am certainly on board with this. I would certainly like to see the application fee even higher than $10. $4 is not enough to even come close to making people think about what or where they want to hunt or what is involved. Sick of people just randomly putting in for tags they never really intend to hunt. See it all the time and not just here...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

How many of theses guys saving and scrimping to fill the freezer are putting in for coveted tags such as suffield antlered elk, mountain moose, Trophy sheep draws? I would think if they are that hard up they would be hunting meat animals that are more of a guaranteed harvest and would be after cow elk, cow moose, antlerless deer etc so would an increase on trophy tags would really affect them would it??

Well said!

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Jack the draw/tag prices up. Need alberta health care or drivers license and minimum one year residency before being eligible for hunting in AB. Cut out all non resident hunting.

Protect the resource for albertans.

[Scopithorne]

I think its a bit ridiculous so what it takes a while to get certain draws if you do your research invest that money you are talking about spending on draws and increased licence fees and put it towards gas to travel to.different parts of the province.and hunt general areas... they still exist

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Scopithorne

I think its a bit ridiculous so what it takes a while to get certain draws if you do your research invest that money you are talking about spending on draws and increased licence fees and put it towards gas to travel to.different parts of the province.and hunt general areas... they still exist

Here is a good point. Although I contend that it is much cheaper to increase fees.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Good grief Chuck!

This concept of eliminating the lower income brackets of society as a way to increase licence availability for others is completely against the sole reason we even have Wildlife as a publically owned and available resource.

Hunting is NOT a "Sport" for many people. Big game are NOT "sport" animals.


While there is merit in having people pay a fair share for the cost of wildlife management and the access to this Publically owned resource, managing hunter numbers through economics only leads to one conclusion, limited access available only for those who can pay the highest price.


So Chuck, How many Minister's Big Horn Special Licences did you buy?

If so many people are so readily willing to pay $100 for the chance to draw a Cadomin tag, why aren't they buying the Raffle tickets? Most years a pile of these tickets are sold to one or two benefactors in order to sell them out. It doesn't add up that people want to pay $25 a shot for a chance when they are passing this opportunity by.

---------------------



There are many much more effective and sound changes to current wildlife management practices that will result in more hunting licences which will result in lowering the priority required to draw a tag. Here's one.



Anybody want a quick easy way to double the number of draw licences available for many of these "trophy" hunts?


GET RID OF THEM!


If we simply got away from this "Trophy" management mentality there would be many more licences available, especially for species such as Mule Deer.

Instead of offering a harvest of 3-5% of the population as is done for a "trophy" Mule deer area, lets issue the 10-15% that the population can biologically withstand thus maximizing the licence availability while reducing the draw wait times.


Yes, I can hear the hard core Antler hunters.....

I can hunt cows or does now every year to my hearts content.

As far as eliminating lower "income brackets". What a rediculous notion. And so far no one can provide the math to back this up.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Because as it is some people have to scrimp and save all year long in the hopes they can afford the tag and the gas money to go out for a few days or a couple weekends hunt in the hopes they can harvest enough meat to last most of the year. Some people work for min wage or just above and most of their money goes to rent and food. They deny themselves luxuries for most of the year so they can take a chance (and a much needed holiday) for a hunting trip. And before you say they should get a better job or an education to get a better job. Well maybe they are getting that education, hence no money for over priced tags. If your just a meat hunter I highly doubt anyone with a low income will pay $150 for a tag. Hence by charging that much for a tag you just took a portion of the hunting community out of the equation making it "a rich mans sport". I understand what you are trying to do, but your thoughts about how to do it are highly flawed in my opinion.

There are plenty of tags available outside of what I'm talking about.

[H380]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

How many of theses guys saving and scrimping to fill the freezer are putting in for coveted tags such as suffield antlered elk, mountain moose, Trophy sheep draws? I would think if they are that hard up they would be hunting meat animals that are more of a guaranteed harvest and would be after cow elk, cow moose, antlerless deer etc so would an increase on trophy tags would really affect them would it??

So true , this talk of saving money by hunting wild meat is a joke .

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Dear Minister,

I didn't get my draw this year so I'm writing to complain to you that the current system is broken. In order to ensure that I get drawn more frequently, could you please increase the cost for draws. That way people that cannot afford the increased cost will stop putting in for as many draws and those of us that can afford it will get drawn more frequently.

It's a good plan and I think that it'll work.

Sincerely,

Chuck

I 999'd all my applications this year.

[ratherbeoutside]

I could go on a long rant about all the ways chucks logic is flawed and how those changes wouldn't help but it sounds like it's all been done already
All I'll say is this - stop complaining about the wait. Not enough animals for the hunters in the province so it's got to be rationed. Now cutting out more non-residents and issuing a reasonable # of tags - that would be a better solution

[Pathfinder76]

People need to realize that I am not complaining about the wait times as they are. Look ahead to what is coming.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by chuck

I'm going to send a letter to the Minister of SRD and Finance in regards to wait times for draws. I have the support of several like minded individuals and will be getting their signatures on the letter. If anyone has a suggestion on any additions let me know. Here are the points I will be making or requesting a change to.

1. Increase draw application fees with a suggestion of $10. This will insure those that feel the need to apply for themselves, their dog, their wife, and their aunt Gertrude just because they can to cover all bases and see what they can draw for will at least think about it first. And maybe they will decide what species they really want to hunt. It will also encourage a bit of research into the tag being applied for.

2. Increase tag fees for special licence "trophy" animals with a suggestion to start at $150. This will also ensure a second thought on what they want to hunt as well. It will also have me personally staggering draws to stay married and solvent. This in and of itself will decrease wait times. Despite the opinion of the 999 detractors. Again, this will also encourage a bit of research into the tag being applied for.

3. Either a mandatory purchase of the tag successfully drawn for within a certain time frame or a mandatory requirement to leave a CC # at the time of application and the automatic purchase upon successful application.

4. The mandatory reporting of harvest or non harvest and use of your tag. You will have to report within 30 days of the close of your season or will automatically forfeit your ability to apply for any draw or purchase of any tag the following year. If you forget, to bad, and you likely won't do it twice.

I support it all, other than the $150 tag fee for some of the special licences. It sould be $1000 - $2000 for some of the premium tags like 438 sheep, Bison, Goat. Thats what they do in several of the states. maybe the $150 tag fee could be applied for the other P10 or higher draws for the balance of the species or if we wanted to get real fancy have a graduated scale for draw tag fees. If it takes a P0 to draw it is $30 or $35, as more and more points are required to pull the tag the cost of te licence goes up with it incrementally. P10 tags might be worth $1000. Would deff make people re-prioritize what they put in the draws for.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

How many of theses guys saving and scrimping to fill the freezer are putting in for coveted tags such as suffield antlered elk, mountain moose, Trophy sheep draws? I would think if they are that hard up they would be hunting meat animals that are more of a guaranteed harvest and would be after cow elk, cow moose, antlerless deer etc so would an increase on trophy tags would really affect them would it??

agreed, if your a meat hunter or that hard up you are not going to spend thousands on a sheep hunt, or any other expensive hunt requiring a lot of $$ regardless of the tag cost. The tag cost isn't even on my radar for cost when i go hunting. Fuel, food, gear, guns, accomodations if required are what cost you not the $10 chuck is proposing to enter a draw or a $150 tag cost if that were the case.

Not trying to reduce anyones hunting opportunities but lets be realistic if someone can't afford a $10 draw and a $150+ tag, how are they supose to execute a 438 sheep hunt or a mountain goat hunt??

I think as Chuck has said increasing the draw & or special licence cost even if marginally would make you re-prioritize what you wanted to hunt. I know i would drop 4 - 6 of the 10 draws I put in for. General season licences wouldn't be effected so don't see the issue myself. I have never pulled a tag and am waiting my turn in the draws like everyone else in the mean time I have had no issue finding things to hunt in general season. Sheep, elk, deer, bear lots to choose from.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

I support it all, other than the $150 tag fee for some of the special licences. It sould be $1000 - $2000 for some of the premium tags like 438 sheep, Bison, Goat. Thats what they do in several of the states. maybe the $150 tag fee could be applied for the other P10 or higher draws for the balance of the species or if we wanted to get real fancy have a graduated scale for draw tag fees. If it takes a P0 to draw it is $30 or $35, as more and more points are required to pull the tag the cost of te licence goes up with it incrementally. P10 tags might be worth $1000. Would deff make people re-prioritize what they put in the draws for.

This is the reality. This thread proves it in spades.

[farmsniper]

As said previously, careful what you wish for! It won't be long till someone will be crying over how much money the application fee is and the tags cost! I'm sure changes are on the way and when they arrive more people will be disappointed then happy with them.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by farmsniper

As said previously, careful what you wish for! It won't be long till someone will be crying over how much money the application fee is and the tags cost! I'm sure changes are on the way and when they arrive more people will be disappointed then happy with them.

Thats mainly due to ESRD's inability to make changes to wildlife management that actually help the wildlife!!

As for cost it could go up $.50 and more people will be disappointed, its all about more entitlement with no cost in Alberta. Rape and pillage and then complain when its gone. More tags!!! More Tags!!! More Areas!!! More Areas!!! Less Money!!! Less Money!!!! Very very sad!

[leo]

Originally Posted by chuck

People need to realize that I am not complaining about the wait times as they are. Look ahead to what is coming.

I agree with your fore warning Chuck, and I applaud the fact that you choose to speak up about it. The province is booming again and population will rise accordingly, although a goodly number of the population is transient and should not be granted resident hunting privilege. I can't comment on wait times in the areas other people hunt, only on the allocations in the area I hunt. I've been drawn for early cow elk 2 years in a row, the bull elk is a 3 point general season consecutive in this WMU. Moose draws tend to take a priority 2, mule deer a priority 3 or better, but you wont find that many trophy class animals in that WMU either! These wait times aren't that bad, but mounting pressure will undoubtedly make wait times longer and more difficult to get drawn. Of course, I feel the best way to lessen wait times, is to make it mandatory for tag holders to have had their "Primary place of residence" in Alberta for 18 months minimum. The only exemption should be for members of our military or RCMP.

[pikergolf]

Meat hunter, trophy hunter, just another wedge by those trying to improve their chances at the expense of others.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

I support it all, other than the $150 tag fee for some of the special licences. It sould be $1000 - $2000 for some of the premium tags like 438 sheep, Bison, Goat. Thats what they do in several of the states. maybe the $150 tag fee could be applied for the other P10 or higher draws for the balance of the species or if we wanted to get real fancy have a graduated scale for draw tag fees. If it takes a P0 to draw it is $30 or $35, as more and more points are required to pull the tag the cost of te licence goes up with it incrementally. P10 tags might be worth $1000. Would deff make people re-prioritize what they put in the draws for.

Nice to see someone gets it.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

Nice to see someone gets it.

X2

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

I support it all, other than the $150 tag fee for some of the special licences. It sould be $1000 - $2000 for some of the premium tags like 438 sheep, Bison, Goat. Thats what they do in several of the states. maybe the $150 tag fee could be applied for the other P10 or higher draws for the balance of the species or if we wanted to get real fancy have a graduated scale for draw tag fees. If it takes a P0 to draw it is $30 or $35, as more and more points are required to pull the tag the cost of te licence goes up with it incrementally. P10 tags might be worth $1000. Would deff make people re-prioritize what they put in the draws for.

Oh boy, when we price point a species we might as give up on our future

[bpk1982]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Meat hunter, trophy hunter, just another wedge by those trying to improve their chances at the expense of others.

Agreed...

this thread is sad...these ideas are simply trying to price people out of hunting to reduce "my" wait times for tags. No matter what reason or rational is given, this is what it boils down to.

As has been said:
1 define and enforce residency
2 no out of province or outfitter tags
Now these ideas can make a difference while being fair to all.