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  #241  
Old 07-23-2014, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
And then they return to their home province , and hunt as residents there as well. Some people do this year after year.
Exactly....

There has to be a way to keep track of and police these sort of "loopholes". I have talked to guys who brag about shooting moose here and one "back home" in the same year.

Which is fine if you do it legally, you can't technically be a resident of two places at the same time....

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  #242  
Old 07-23-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
So if you and your two kids want to apply for mule deer (antlered and antlerless) and elk. Just fork over $225 to throw your names into the draw. Might not even be drawn. If you are, add license costs. Oh, and want to 999 a bunch for hunts in future years, throw in a few hundred $ more. Somehow paying a grand every year to the Alberta Government general revenue fund will make everything all better for hunters.

Crazy solution to an undefined, possibly non-existant problem. I have bought and hunted every license opportunity I've ever been drawn for. You are doing a pretty poor job of convincing me why I And other reponsible, planful hunters should have to pay several times more to the government than at present.

I've got a great idea to lower traffic fatalities. Let's charge $5000 a year for a license plate. I can afford it, but many can't, so we will have fewer cars on the road and a more safe environment for everyone.
And this is part of the reason we are where we are today. As long as our fishing and hunting lisc. Money, and our draw money go into general coffers we are hooped. There has been no taste in the last 3-4 elected provincial governments to maintain a decent budget for ESRD . Little to nothing goes into enforcement or habitat protection anymore. And we as Albertans have let slide the mandate to do so. Progress gets in the way apparently. There was a time when orginizations like Alberta F&G had some political bite , but more and more one by one all our orginizations meant to represent us are stuck with in fighting amongst each other instead of looking for the common good. We see it everyday on this forum.
Wait times will be a contentious issue for years to come , the only true way to fix it or slow down the effects of more people in this province , is to send mandate to the next elected government. Time too come together as outdoorsmen and say we have a voice and if you won't listen we will find some one that will. What does that mean? It's time to restrengthen our numbers in AFGA , ABA, SCI , DU... You get the idea , these orginizations need new blood new ideas and most of all semblance of some common ground.
Can an increase in $ required to enter a draw help make people think and plan there hunts better ? Absolutely but only if the extra money goes back into conservation and enforcement .
Can we do this and avoid elitism, and paid hunting? I truly believe so.
Is a primary concern that can have a immediate effect find people abusing the system by either having multiple cards , not a resident, putting in for people that will never hunt. Yep should be priority # 1 for ESRD but its likley not in the budget.
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  #243  
Old 07-23-2014, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by super7mag View Post
And this is part of the reason we are where we are today. As long as our fishing and hunting lisc. Money, and our draw money go into general coffers we are hooped. There has been no taste in the last 3-4 elected provincial governments to maintain a decent budget for ESRD . Little to nothing goes into enforcement or habitat protection anymore. And we as Albertans have let slide the mandate to do so. Progress gets in the way apparently. There was a time when orginizations like Alberta F&G had some political bite , but more and more one by one all our orginizations meant to represent us are stuck with in fighting amongst each other instead of looking for the common good. We see it everyday on this forum.
Wait times will be a contentious issue for years to come , the only true way to fix it or slow down the effects of more people in this province , is to send mandate to the next elected government. Time too come together as outdoorsmen and say we have a voice and if you won't listen we will find some one that will. What does that mean? It's time to restrengthen our numbers in AFGA , ABA, SCI , DU... You get the idea , these orginizations need new blood new ideas and most of all semblance of some common ground.
Can an increase in $ required to enter a draw help make people think and plan there hunts better ? Absolutely but only if the extra money goes back into conservation and enforcement .
Can we do this and avoid elitism, and paid hunting? I truly believe so.
Is a primary concern that can have a immediate effect find people abusing the system by either having multiple cards , not a resident, putting in for people that will never hunt. Yep should be priority # 1 for ESRD but its likley not in the budget.
There in lays another issue. Alberta Fish and Wild life's operational budget is through the Solicitor General, not Environment or Sustainable Resources. This budget covers all provincial law enforcement and provincial penitentiary's. That's a pretty heavy drain on the overall allotment. Fish and wildlife is not a priority for our failing government.
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  #244  
Old 07-23-2014, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by super7mag View Post
And this is part of the reason we are where we are today. As long as our fishing and hunting lisc. Money, and our draw money go into general coffers we are hooped. There has been no taste in the last 3-4 elected provincial governments to maintain a decent budget for ESRD . Little to nothing goes into enforcement or habitat protection anymore. And we as Albertans have let slide the mandate to do so. Progress gets in the way apparently. There was a time when orginizations like Alberta F&G had some political bite , but more and more one by one all our orginizations meant to represent us are stuck with in fighting amongst each other instead of looking for the common good. We see it everyday on this forum.
Wait times will be a contentious issue for years to come , the only true way to fix it or slow down the effects of more people in this province , is to send mandate to the next elected government. Time too come together as outdoorsmen and say we have a voice and if you won't listen we will find some one that will. What does that mean? It's time to restrengthen our numbers in AFGA , ABA, SCI , DU... You get the idea , these orginizations need new blood new ideas and most of all semblance of some common ground.
Can an increase in $ required to enter a draw help make people think and plan there hunts better ? Absolutely but only if the extra money goes back into conservation and enforcement .
Can we do this and avoid elitism, and paid hunting? I truly believe so.
Is a primary concern that can have a immediate effect find people abusing the system by either having multiple cards , not a resident, putting in for people that will never hunt. Yep should be priority # 1 for ESRD but its likley not in the budget.
X1000% Probably the best post in this discussion so far in my opinion
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  #245  
Old 07-23-2014, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by super7mag View Post
And this is part of the reason we are where we are today. As long as our fishing and hunting lisc. Money, and our draw money go into general coffers we are hooped. There has been no taste in the last 3-4 elected provincial governments to maintain a decent budget for ESRD . Little to nothing goes into enforcement or habitat protection anymore. And we as Albertans have let slide the mandate to do so. Progress gets in the way apparently. There was a time when orginizations like Alberta F&G had some political bite , but more and more one by one all our orginizations meant to represent us are stuck with in fighting amongst each other instead of looking for the common good. We see it everyday on this forum.
Wait times will be a contentious issue for years to come , the only true way to fix it or slow down the effects of more people in this province , is to send mandate to the next elected government. Time too come together as outdoorsmen and say we have a voice and if you won't listen we will find some one that will. What does that mean? It's time to restrengthen our numbers in AFGA , ABA, SCI , DU... You get the idea , these orginizations need new blood new ideas and most of all semblance of some common ground.
Can an increase in $ required to enter a draw help make people think and plan there hunts better ? Absolutely but only if the extra money goes back into conservation and enforcement .
Can we do this and avoid elitism, and paid hunting? I truly believe so.
Is a primary concern that can have a immediate effect find people abusing the system by either having multiple cards , not a resident, putting in for people that will never hunt. Yep should be priority # 1 for ESRD but its likley not in the budget.
Yes, this sums it up. I would like to add that all the groups need to work together instead of banning things to better there cause. Helping just there cause is only a short term solution.
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  #246  
Old 07-24-2014, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by leo View Post
There in lays another issue. Alberta Fish and Wild life's operational budget is through the Solicitor General, not Environment or Sustainable Resources. This budget covers all provincial law enforcement and provincial penitentiary's. That's a pretty heavy drain on the overall allotment. Fish and wildlife is not a priority for our failing government.
Yep another brilliant move by our current sitting Gov.
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  #247  
Old 07-24-2014, 05:51 AM
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How much do people spend on booze, cigarettes, or take out in a year? I would suggest people are pricing themselves out of opportunity.
$0, $0 and perhaps $50 for the family in a year. There, now I find your arguments invalid. Do I still have to be included in your voluntary tax hike, because they are already taking a staggering amount as it is...

After mentioning $50 Macdonalds outings and alluding to the cost of addictions annually you mention:
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
As an aside, this would be completely unnecessary if people had some semblance of self control.
So if not everyone has the same problems you face, how would others having self control and having to pay substantially more for their hunting opportunities solve anything? Just pay more for the heck of it? Why? Raising tag costs to try to make people have self control in their life and spending is backwards.
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  #248  
Old 07-24-2014, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Many people that work in Alberta that purchase resident tags, don't even have an Alberta drivers license. Many of them just work here, and their principal residence is in another province, but because our regulations are so lax, they just provide an Alberta address, and purchase resident tags. If you lived and worked in Fort McMurray, you would realize just how many people are doing this.
I did live and work in Ft Mac for 7 years, I could count the number of guys on one hand that hunted virtually everyone went home to the East Coast on their days off. I would bet if you tightened up the system 100% it would not reduce the number of "resident" hunters by much. Like you said many keep a NFLD drivers licence but almost all of them pay Alberta Income tax and save themselves 20%. For the ones that do buy a resident licence illigitimatly I would assume they are mainly hunting around the northern zones around Ft Mac anyway which really has no impact on the majority of hunters in the province. Should they be doing it absolutly not but I dot ink is the answer to significantly reducing draw times
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  #249  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:03 AM
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$0, $0 and perhaps $50 for the family in a year. There, now I find your arguments invalid. Do I still have to be included in your voluntary tax hike, because they are already taking a staggering amount as it is...

After mentioning $50 Macdonalds outings and alluding to the cost of addictions annually you mention:


So if not everyone has the same problems you face, how would others having self control and having to pay substantially more for their hunting opportunities solve anything? Just pay more for the heck of it? Why? Raising tag costs to try to make people have self control in their life and spending is backwards.
The self control comes in the form of being honest with yourself about what you can commit yourself to when it comes to draw applications.
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  #250  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:33 AM
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You feel that it makes no difference? So here is a scenario. Antlered mule deer draw lic. available for all of the 100 and 200 series WMU's in 2014 equal approx. 5878 tags total. If the 18% or 1057 mentioned dont purchase their tags that is a $39000 loss towards conservation and conservation enforcement!! That one species and only a portion of the province. Seems like that would make a difference of hundreds of thousands each year to help improve habitat, enforcement and maybe help increase hunter opportunities!!!!!!
I can agree with that. Unpurchased tags would be a revenue loss. But even so how would it increase opportunity.
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  #251  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:56 AM
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I did live and work in Ft Mac for 7 years, I could count the number of guys on one hand that hunted virtually everyone went home to the East Coast on their days off. I would bet if you tightened up the system 100% it would not reduce the number of "resident" hunters by much. Like you said many keep a NFLD drivers licence but almost all of them pay Alberta Income tax and save themselves 20%. For the ones that do buy a resident licence illigitimatly I would assume they are mainly hunting around the northern zones around Ft Mac anyway which really has no impact on the majority of hunters in the province. Should they be doing it absolutly not but I dot ink is the answer to significantly reducing draw times
I find that hard to believe. You should talk to the people around Wandering River about the problems they are having.
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  #252  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:56 AM
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I can agree with that. Unpurchased tags would be a revenue loss. But even so how would it increase opportunity.
It was suggested that it is factored in that people do not purchase all the tags...Unpurchased tags are for sure 0 harvest tags. So the actual tags available are boost to account for the tags not purchased...

More tags equal more opportunity...

In 438 they must add 40% more tags because only 60% of people buy them

LC
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  #253  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:04 AM
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Default What's the goal?

I think that it would be more useful to communicate the desired outcome vs. opinions about what actions to take. What are acceptable wait times? Don't say "as short as possible" because that's not useful. We can help define the goal, the biologists can give tell us what the options and tradeoffs are in achieving that. It's our role to tell wildlife managers what we want, not what to do.
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  #254  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:05 AM
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I find that hard to believe. You should talk to the people around Wandering River about the problems they are having.
Just because wondering river is being flooded by a ton of new people with a funny accent doesnt mean they are not now residents
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  #255  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:09 AM
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I think that it would be more useful to communicate the desired outcome vs. opinions about what actions to take. What are acceptable wait times? Don't say "as short as possible" because that's not useful. We can help define the goal, the biologists can give tell us what the options and tradeoffs are in achieving that. It's our role to tell wildlife managers what we want, not what to do.
Ideal wait time 4 years or less for an average tag. Highly sought after tags like 438 etc... 10 years once in a lifetime. Just my ideal not based on anything.
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  #256  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:29 AM
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And then they return to their home province , and hunt as residents there as well. Some people do this year after year.
^^This is probably the biggest issue in my opinion. With the huge amount of people that work yet don't live in Alberta it is too easy to hunt as a resident. This would be a bigger issue in Alberta than any other province yet it is one of the easiest places to qualify as a resident hunter.

Alberta needs to crack down on what it takes to qualify to be a resident hunter. Most provinces have a wait time for a reason and it is common for 6 month-1 year wait to qualify. Primary residence should be in Alberta to qualify to be a resident hunter. Only exception I would make is for military.

In my opinion this issue is the first one Alberta residents need to push for change. It would be a reasonable request that would most likely pass with little resistance.

You want change start here and take it one step at a time as needed.
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  #257  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:32 AM
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It was suggested that it is factored in that people do not purchase all the tags...Unpurchased tags are for sure 0 harvest tags. So the actual tags available are boost to account for the tags not purchased...

More tags equal more opportunity...

In 438 they must add 40% more tags because only 60% of people buy them

LC
Then if they are already accounted for, lost revenue is a moot point?
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  #258  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:34 AM
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Just because wondering river is being flooded by a ton of new people with a funny accent doesnt mean they are not now residents
Yes, but do they have resident status in other provinces as well? I'm not trying to paint them all with the same brush but it clearly is an issue.
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  #259  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:37 AM
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So if you and your two kids want to apply for mule deer (antlered and antlerless) and elk. Just fork over $225 to throw your names into the draw. Might not even be drawn. If you are, add license costs. Oh, and want to 999 a bunch for hunts in future years, throw in a few hundred $ more. Somehow paying a grand every year to the Alberta Government general revenue fund will make everything all better for hunters.

Crazy solution to an undefined, possibly non-existant problem. I have bought and hunted every license opportunity I've ever been drawn for. You are doing a pretty poor job of convincing me why I And other reponsible, planful hunters should have to pay several times more to the government than at present.

I've got a great idea to lower traffic fatalities. Let's charge $5000 a year for a license plate. I can afford it, but many can't, so we will have fewer cars on the road and a more safe environment for everyone.
x2....plus raise price of gas to at least 20.00 per litre.
i'm surprised at the # of people out there that think raising draw/tag prices are a good idea.
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  #260  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:38 AM
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Then if they are already accounted for, lost revenue is a moot point?
I thought your question was about additional opportunity not revenue?

LC
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:50 AM
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The self control comes in the form of being honest with yourself about what you can commit yourself to when it comes to draw applications.
problem with that statement chuck, is that you never know ahead of time what or if you"ll be drawn for. I drew for 6 tags this year hopeing to get at least 2. ended up with 1.
if i had been drawn for all 6 you can bet my travel plans this season would be much different.
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  #262  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:03 AM
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I thought your question was about additional opportunity not revenue?

LC
Going back a few more posts, I was unsure what difference it made if the tag was purchased or not. That is where the revenue issue came up (by mathewsz7). I think what I really meant was that a mandatory purchase of a tag may not increase opportunity.
My comments are more so questions to gather info I guess, so I can form an opinion.
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  #263  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:07 AM
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problem with that statement chuck, is that you never know ahead of time what or if you"ll be drawn for. I drew for 6 tags this year hopeing to get at least 2. ended up with 1.
if i had been drawn for all 6 you can bet my travel plans this season would be much different.
They have 999 for a reason.
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  #264  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:12 AM
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Yes, but do they have resident status in other provinces as well? I'm not trying to paint them all with the same brush but it clearly is an issue.
If they are Newfoundlanders by birth they can retain hunting rights in that province without being a resident. Its something their province allows much like Alberta allows its military members to retain hunting privileges in this province even when posted to another province. In fact, many Newfs prefer to make Alberta their primary residence because of the hunting rights and low taxes.
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  #265  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:22 AM
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The self control comes in the form of being honest with yourself about what you can commit yourself to when it comes to draw applications.
Exactly right Chuck. And the majority of people are. Why penalize them?

I'm not opposed to automatic charges for a license when you are drawn. Fine. But jacking up prices on responsible hunters who aren't the problem such that it puts some part of their hunting plans out of reach isn't the answer.
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  #266  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:24 AM
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If they are Newfoundlanders by birth they can retain hunting rights in that province without being a resident. Its something their province allows much like Alberta allows its military members to retain hunting privileges in this province even when posted to another province. In fact, many Newfs prefer to make Alberta their primary residence because of the hunting rights and low taxes.
I did not know that, Thanks. Just trying to help come up with some kind of solution.
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  #267  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:31 AM
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I support it all, other than the $150 tag fee for some of the special licences. It sould be $1000 - $2000 for some of the premium tags like 438 sheep, Bison, Goat. Thats what they do in several of the states. maybe the $150 tag fee could be applied for the other P10 or higher draws for the balance of the species or if we wanted to get real fancy have a graduated scale for draw tag fees. If it takes a P0 to draw it is $30 or $35, as more and more points are required to pull the tag the cost of te licence goes up with it incrementally. P10 tags might be worth $1000. Would deff make people re-prioritize what they put in the draws for.
It depresses me to say this man, but you should be ashamed of this post. Pretty sickening to see a fellow outdoorsman state that
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  #268  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:36 AM
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It depresses me to say this man, but you should be ashamed of this post. Pretty sickening to see a fellow outdoorsman state that
Lots of guys agree that premium tags should be increased.
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  #269  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hat in the Cat View Post
If they are Newfoundlanders by birth they can retain hunting rights in that province without being a resident. Its something their province allows much like Alberta allows its military members to retain hunting privileges in this province even when posted to another province. In fact, many Newfs prefer to make Alberta their primary residence because of the hunting rights and low taxes.
This is not correct. You now must hold a Nfld drivers license to be in the system there. If you are not a resident of Nfld, you aren't legally allowed in the resident draw.
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  #270  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:40 AM
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Lots of guys agree that premium tags should be increased.
Sadly I can see where hunting is headed, to the elitists.
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