crossbow season?

I'd love to see an additional muzzleloader and crossbow season. Give me another month to hunt...you bet but it's not likely to happen.

As for your other question, crossbows are much closer to vertical bows than rifles so it only makes sense that if they don't have their own season that they be included in archery season...not rifle season. That, plus having them included in archery season would allow crossbow hunters access to the numerous archer-only areas in the province....areas that are much more suited to a limited-range weapon like the crossbow.

the crossbow season with the archery season, and not just with the rifle season as it is right now? I have no problem archery hunting during rifle season, so I'm just wondering....

It would be good thing if its only during rifle season so you cant use one around the bow zone and if you could just think of the extra fun that would be added archery season.

No one is prevented from participating, it just requires a bit of dedication.

Actually there are loads of people that are physically unable to shoot a vertical bow that would love to hunt during the archery season but can't. Before you say that they can get a special permit....most can't. The rules for getting one of these permits state that you must be missing a limb so very few people qualify.

Archery season isn't really about population control, general season is the main event for that.

Actualy, archery season is all about population control, especially in the Calgary and Edmonton bow zones. Unfortunately, archers can't control the numbers enough....another benefit of adding crossbows to the mix.

"I know what you guys mean about archers and rifle hunters not wanting to give up part of their season....but I would gladly do it."

But there's no reason to give up anything, gain is to be had...not loss.

"I'd love to see crossbows introduced. I know of a few 180+ deer that would have got thumped this year if that was the case."

Thats a bold one. Are you describing failed spot and stalks due strictly to the draw? We could argue the ****e out of this one. So many things to go wrong with the crossbow too...point is...how many guys get within range of 180 class deer period? Percentage too low to argue about a few that get away on the draw...your talking one particular instance. What if compounds weren't allowed...you might have even had a better chance actually...as its a much faster shooting style than a compound....one might argue that if speed is the issue then the traditional equipment would be the fastest of them all.

"One thing I'd ask, is if crossbows dont want to be lumped into archery hunting, why is it so important to have the crossbow season with the archery season, and not just with the rifle season as it is right now? I have no problem archery hunting during rifle season, so I'm just wondering...."

Just fits there, its lumped in the wrong spot. Might as well include the sling shot in the gun season too then...just about as useless.:lol

"I also support a muzzleloader season, as I know most do. TJ, would you like to see a muzzleloader only season, or are you happy with it in the rifle season?"

Now this i can't argue is a bow...this is most definitely a gun. If this can have its own season then so can the traditional archers imo. Think of the muzzle loader as the traditional bow of the gun group. Just my take....lots of muzzle loaders might not like that one but really, a 200 yrd single shot that takes a minute to reload....goes bang...kills by hydrostatic shock etc.(not hemoraging)....sounds like a gun to me.

You wanna hunt early season and have a trigger on it...start voting to allow the crossbow in with the rest of the bows imo.

B

Heh..the only trigger I want is my release in archery season.....thats just me.

I'm all for a seperate muzzleloader season, as I'm sure the MZ hunters dont appreciate hunting in rifle season.

I'm for a longbow traditional season as well as a compound season..

And yes...I'm just as happy with a crossbow only season....

As for getting up on 180 class deer....its not a single instance. I usually do it over 3-4 times a year on most years. With a crossbow, and less movement, those deer would be dead. I've tried to train myself to shoot my bow laying down, but simply cannot do it easily enough with enough accuracy or confidence. With a crossbow, I think I could lay down and shoot with no problems. Not sure why some crossbow advocates want to show the disadvantages.....thats an advantage to me. I'd gladly shoot a 180+ deer laying down with a crossbow.....lol

Anyways, this will go in circles, and I'm not sure I'm interested in going for 6 pages in circles, so I'll leave my responses to that for a while.

Before you say that they can get a special permit....most can't. The rules for getting one of these permits state that you must be missing a limb so very few people qualify.

I'll have to check the current regs on that. A friend of mine was injured in a firearm accident as a kid and although he is not missing any limbs he did have a permit to use his crossbow during archery season at one time. Maybe the rules have changed since then.

Actualy, archery season is all about population control, especially in the Calgary and Edmonton bow zones. Unfortunately, archers can't control the numbers enough....another benefit of adding crossbows to the mix.

I think in most zones archery season has little effect on population control. In the bowzones where archery is the only option to control popualtions I agree that they are unable to have enough effect however I think the biggest part of the problem in those zones is getting permission to hunt. I don't think adding crossbows would help the permission situation at all but they probably would increase the harvest a bit.

One thing about crossbows Trev is that they are heavy and bulky and cumbersome and noisy and not well suited to spot and stalk hunting so saying you could have shot those deer may not be true. Carry one around for an hour and you'll hate it. I know after hunting with one a bit this past year that I learned a lot obout what they are capable of and what their shoert comings are. I know I'll be packing my compound bow and not a crossbow when I draw the 408 sheep tag, even if crossbows are legal.

Outdoor Chet....

If you hunt with a traditional bow then you've got some legs to your argument...but you must still be po'd about the compounds being let in. If you hunt with a compound then no legs imo.

If anyone argues against the crossbow being allowed, yet they shoot a compound...then its hypocritical in my mind.

B

Had to log off, exceeded my daily posting limit LOL. One reason to allow unregistered users i guess.:lol

"I'm all for a seperate muzzleloader season, as I'm sure the MZ hunters dont appreciate hunting in rifle season."

Imagine how the poor traditional bow guys feel!

"I'm for a longbow traditional season as well as a compound season.."

Well might as really get into it then. Separate season for trad gear, then compound, then crossbow, then muzzle loader/shotgun?, then lever actions/iron sights/short fat slow arse cartridges...then a final season for the real fast whizbang hi-tech 400 yrd plus stuff? What about primitive high power air rifles? Should find a nich for them too? What about a spear season? Think of all the toys one could have to hunt all them seasons. Or how bout put like toys with like toys and have longer seasons that way? Bows with bows, guns with guns? If you really want the most effective tool you can find in gun season then get a 300 wsm and practice to 500 yrds etc. if you wanna have some fun with a character tool then get a muzzle loader. Same idea for the bows.

"As for getting up on 180 class deer....its not a single instance. I usually do it over 3-4 times a year on most years. With a crossbow, and less movement, those deer would be dead. I've tried to train myself to shoot my bow laying down, but simply cannot do it easily enough with enough accuracy or confidence. With a crossbow, I think I could lay down and shoot with no problems. Not sure why some crossbow advocates want to show the disadvantages.....thats an advantage to me. I'd gladly shoot a 180+ deer laying down with a crossbow.....lol"

I'm with sheep on the cumbersome thing. I haven't tried to haul one around like he has yet but i can see it having its own disadvantages also. Like i said before, may or may not help that one particular circumstance but overall...very small differences in what happens in the stats. There are a million ways to screw up a stalk and most guys will find one of them before its time...the crossbow won't make that big a difference in reality.

"Anyways, this will go in circles, and I'm not sure I'm interested in going for 6 pages in circles, so I'll leave my responses to that for a while."

Ahh, your about to hit your limit in posting for the day anyhow. :lol

B

Blake,

I don't hunt with a traditional bow. Compounds have been allowed in archery season for as long as I've been old enough to hunt big game so I guess that didn't upset me. I can see how traditional guys might not have wanted it though. Compounds did make archery hunting easier and I believe that crossbows would too. I guess it all comes down to where you believe the line should be drawn in order to preserve the quality of the hunting experience. Obviously you and I would not draw it in the same place just as a strict traditional archer and I would probably not. The line is where it is and and I like it where it is for reasons stated previously.

You and I have tried changing each others minds on this before and we both know it isn't going to happen now.

Chet.. I understand where you are coming from, and for the most part I agree.However, while you are enjoying the archery season in 408, some of us are omitted, being unable to participate in the early hunt for other species in say WMU 508 due to our preference for crossbows. IMHO this is not right.
The last thing I want to see is the hunting community split in to any more special interest groups. Special seasons do have their place, but not at the expense of others. Many of us simply want to participate in an early archery season that includes the use of crossbows. I really don't understand why this creates such a problem. I just don't see hordes of crossbows looming on the horizon.

Outdoor Chet,

Yeah, a bell was ringing that something familier about this discussion.

I guess my point is if the compound was good and grew the sport and opportunity then the overall gain was much greater than the loss....and it would be the same thing here again. Thats how i see it anyhow, much more positive than negative(for the whole sport...big picture).

Have a good one.

B

"The last thing I want to see is the hunting community split in to any more special interest groups. Special seasons do have their place, but not at the expense of others."

I'm behind that 100%, i can give a little for overall gain.

B

Theres a lot of real good input on this board..for sure.
Accordingly, I would like to throw this thought in to the fray.

How about an general archery season, that would include crossbows -on private land only?. I made mention of this in an earlier post but I guess it deadended. This may be the easiest way to introduce crossbows to a possible future general archery classification. Maybe I,m grasping at an elusive straw, but there must be a way that will appease everybody.



.

"Yeah...for a good hunter...who knows where to go and how to get within 30 yrds....most guys that good...know how to get the draw on them too. Who you tryin to kid?"

Hey Blakenator2, not sure were your at in the province but in some areas theres is not cover every 100 yards, it may be easy to it in a clump of bush and wait for a little spike or fork but when chasing the big mulies you often crawl on your stomach (cactus and all) and then must find enough cover to draw. You can usually draw, then they look at you and are so wound up an ethical shot is not possible. I felt sick when a saw a deer jump my string for the first time this year. I was so glad it didn't result in a bad hit and missed completely. I was 25 yeards away after a 150 meter 1.5 hour stalk, he just caught the movement out of the corner of his eye. Getting in range is easy in 12'' of grass until you actually need to shoot. Crossbow would be of extreme advantage where i hunt, like i said though, not a huge advantage everywhere. I found the hardest part of bowhunting is drawing, getting close was not a problem after 2 years of practice. The weight of the bow may be a big issue but it would still be a worthwhile exchange.

As for the seasons, i agree with not splitting up the hunter crowd any more, already stupid how no one can get along.

jrs...actually the scenario you described is the worst possible for a crossbow. Until you've actually carried one in the field for extended periods of time you have no idea how cumbersome they are and are definitely not well suited to sneaking in open country. Plus they are extremely noisy and jumping the string is a real issue when a deer has noticed you. I think you are way too optimistic about the advantage a crossbow would give you in the situation described.

"I was 25 yeards away after a 150 meter 1.5 hour stalk, he just caught the movement out of the corner of his eye. Getting in range is easy in 12'' of grass until you actually need to shoot."

Your a more patient man than i. Ever hear that saying if you can touch it you can catch it? You plumb sh_t the bed Jrs. LOL, i'm just joking. Like many of you just killin time to go home early for the holidays i assume? So just havin a little fun.

Anyhow, you take for granted also how difficult it probably is for the average guy to do a 150 meter 1.5 hour stalk in 1 foot of grass. Personally i'd find a different way so you have kudos from me. I've done shorter ones where its hands and knees staying low as possible and lifting 4 lb bow with each hand and setting it down quiet is painful enough so i can see how the crossbow would be even more annoying. Sheep Hunter has more experience than either of us(since he has a crossbow)...and i can see his point. I still think you could just as easily 'sh_t the bed' with either one in that instance.

Your splittin hairs when you get into this situation imo.

"How about an general archery season, that would include crossbows -on private land only?. I made mention of this in an earlier post but I guess it deadended. This may be the easiest way to introduce crossbows to a possible future general archery classification. Maybe I,m grasping at an elusive straw, but there must be a way that will appease everybody."

Anything will help. I only hunt private so not sure what the public guys think. My guess is wouldn't make a diff if both allowed?

B

OK, so let's sum up.

1. Everyone seems to have gotten over the technical hump and more or less agrees that there is no great advantage to the X-Bow for weight, accuracy or range. In fact there seems to be from the previous posts that the compound has the edge in at least two categories.

2. Everyone seems to agree that there is the same hunting skill set needed for both weapons, stalking, know your game, etc.

3. Everyone seems to agree that the X-Bow is just another version of the bow family, like the muzzle loader is another member of the gun family.

4. All the evidence presented here says that based on studies there is no change to the kill ratio in provinces/states that allow X-Bow in archery seasons.

5. The X-Bow has a slightly better learning curve than the vertical bow and could result in more positive results for new hunters by allowing them to get into the sport faster with a better chance of making a clean kill. Hard to fight getting new blood into the outdoors considering the current hunter generation seems to be a vanishing breed.

So other than the "I don't want to share my exlusive season" there does not seem to be much of an argument for excluding X-Bows from the archery season.

And just for the record, I learned to shoot a compound starting in 1978, it took a long time to get proficient, I've hunted with it and greatly enjoyed the advantage of the early season to get out and about.

Maybe it's time to share, it's not like there isn't enough deer in Alberta, and with the growth boom in the size of the cities I would expect the "Bow only" zone to grow and the opportunities to hunt will outstrip the capabilities of the current (vertical) bowhunting community to be a viable management tool on their own.

My 2 cents.....

Yup

I see your points on the crossbows being heavy and awkward, the only ones i've ever saw were pretty light. My compound bow is ancient though so maybe i haven't realized the benefits of a light unit. I always thought it would be benefitial, maybe i'm wrong. Could happen now and then:lol

I gun hunted for years, now almost exclusively bow-hunt(compound), luvin it!, maybe in future trad bow. Crossbow-not likely, maybe for turkeys. But if it helped any newcomers enter the sport of hunting, excellent. And if it helped any gun-hunters take on the challenge of honing their skills to closer stalking, more patience, scent control, ect, great! Its great to see some here willing to give up part of their season for a separate crossbow season, but from what Ive seen on other sites and elsewhere, this would not get enough support. The most negative experience Ive had while bowhunting is guns going off in the vicinity(shotguns, general seasons, ect), putting game on high alert and sometimes rattling my nerves. I probably wouldn't notice a nearby crossbow hunter and certainly wouldn't mind them being there. As to how this would affect my hunting opportunities, I believe I had opportunity to harvest a total of 7 whitetails this year alone. If that number decrreased by a few I'd be OK with that.

Good summary Piglet.. That puts it in perspective. Add to it the comments by Boo in a later post,regarding hunt quality during the regular season and we have the issue in a nutshell.

I don't feel anyone will "lose" anything...or even have to give up a part of a special archery season. Seems to me many of those who are opposed to the inclusion of crossbows in the archery season anticipate hordes of crossbow bearing neophytes and clowns entering their exclusive domain. That would not be the case. Most of us would simply like to have the same opportunity to enjoy the many benefits of the earlier season..on an equal basis.

If i am understanding this you can hunt with aa cross bow during gun season only (YES OR NO ) If yes do you need a bow lis or do you just buy a reg tag like gun season .

Yes only in gun season and no you do not need a bow permit.

Yes only in gun season and no you do not need a bow permit.

Thank you SheepHunter.

Bow hunting season should to open to all hunters hunting with equipment that makes them eligible for P&Y, that's my bottom line.

A lot of compound bow users would be excluded then from bow season too.

Perhaps I should'nt do this but I can't help myself......

So Rocks,

You think only trophy hunters should have the right to hunt in the bow season then?

Perhaps all bowhunters should have to register their kills then to ensure that they meet the minimum requirement to get into the P&Y book as well.

This is the kind of elitism that gets in the way of hunting by people who are new to the sport or try to understand what we do.

It goes along with:

Wingshooting is the only way to hunt birds......

True flyfishermen only catch and release......

And if you don't do it "MY" way you are a heathen.

Sorry for the rant, must be the Christmas stress....

A season based on a participants eligibility for trophy awards ?...interesting.

In that scenario, there may be a lot of hunters looking for another sport.

IMHO I don't think your idea is workable Rock.