Letter to the ministers to reduce draw wait times.

[roper1]

Every landowner I know & that is a bunch do NOT use a LO tag yearly. Maybe I am looking at this from too small a perspective/rose-colored glasses but none of my neighbors have walls full of trophy mulies. Most of us have a couple of nice ones taken off land that has been in our family for generations. I just really have a problem with the idea of being an open access kind of guy when fellow hunters who don't own the land, don't work the land, pay no taxes on it or my improvements to it, somehow feel they are more entitled to the deer. Most of my neighbors allow some access. What good are all these great trophy mulies if landowners feel shafted & less willing to grant access??

[roper1]

Originally Posted by residentguide

Why should you get a free pass to a trophy tag every year? Trust me they will be changing landowner tags as this problem gets worse.

You answered a question with a question and a threat. Not a solution as I requested. Try this time.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

What a putz comment. A Zone on that kind of priority is limited by animal numbers. Guys not filling tags means numbers grow faster. Get padt your own blinded greed.

I know a bit about that zone. You do not. It is not a greedy comment but an example of why wait times would go down if people began to prioritize their draws or actually became serious about what they are doing.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I think that some tweaking to the land owner tags could include:

... only anterless animals (landowners are still eligible to enter regular draws)
... If they obtain a LO tag then they are not eligible to increase priority in regular draws for the years they hold a landowner tag

LC

I agree lefty, it could use some tweeking, but at the end of the day the landowner controls what happens on his land. Be pretty crappy if all we had to hunt was strictly crown land because all the landowners are P.O'd......

[elkhunter11]

paying more or auto pay if drawn does nothing at all for anything other than giving more tax money.

Having to commit $40 or $50 each, to a draw, rather than less than $4 for up to 4 people, will make some people actually think about what is involved with the hunt, before applying. It may only result in 10-20% less people applying, but it's a start.

Originally Posted by residentguide

Why should you get a free pass to a trophy tag every year? Trust me they will be changing landowner tags as this problem gets worse.

The landowner tag is valid only on the landowner's land, not in the entire WMU like a regular draw tag. If the landowner tags are abolished, and the landowner get's tired of providing habitat for everyone else's benefit, with no benefit to himself, and he decides not to grant permission to anyone, then nobody can legally hunt on his land, and more hunting land will be lost for all hunters.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Everyone needs to take a step back from the keyboard. Start scouting your antlerless mulie draws. Do your part to help with the cull.

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

Because without them (landowners) there would be no game to hunt anyway. Its the landowner that make it possible for us to hunt on their land. Why shouldn't they have first access to those animals?

ya ok. So landowners created the deer? Last I checked animals were here way before these landowners were. No they should not have first rightat them. This is just more division. Land owners in Sask don't get landowner tags and they don't whine about it. Same in almost the whole country. So what makes Alberta farmers different? Right. Nothing. This thread is about all residents not just farmers. Get in the same line as everybody else and wait your turn.

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Having to commit $40 or $50 each, to a draw, rather than less than $4 for up to 4 people, will make some people actually think about what is involved with the hunt, before applying. It may only result in 10-20% less people applying, but it's a start.



The landowner tag is valid only on the landowner's land, not in the entire WMU like a regular draw tag. If the landowner tags are abolished, and the landowner get's tired of providing habitat for everyone else's benefit, with no benefit to himself, and he decides not to grant permission to anyone, then nobody can legally hunt on his land, and more hunting land will be lost for all hunters.

people will only apply for antlered or horned tags. Domes not help anything. Just makes it worse and you are paying mor taxes and doing nothing for our wildlife as money does not go there. I don't care were a land owner tag is good for. It is still good in the zone you apply in and I do which Raquel's another tag for the pot for all. Why should he get a special tag? You whine about outfitters. Same thing other than a landowner gets a free gift every year as an outfitter had to many thousands to get a tag which all land owner can deny access for.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by residentguide

people will only apply for antlered or horned tags. Domes not help anything. Just makes it worse and you are paying mor taxes and doing nothing for our wildlife as money does not go there. I don't care were a land owner tag is good for. It is still good in the zone you apply in and I do which Raquel's another tag for the pot for all. Why should he get a special tag? You whine about outfitters. Same thing other than a landowner gets a free gift every year as an outfitter had to many thousands to get a tag which all land owner can deny access for.

Many people that apply for sheep, goat, bison, and some elk tags, have no clue what is involved with the hunt, or even where they have to hunt. Because the application costs so little, they don't care enough to bother doing any research. If they had to commit to paying for the license if drawn, which adds another $40 to $50 to their commitment, some of them would at least do some research, and then decide not to bother applying.

As for landowners, they provide food and habitat all year to many animals, and they provide land for many residents to hunt on, so why shouldn't they get a tag. Outfitters provide nothing as far as habitat, they just bring in non residents that don't contribute in any way to the province, and in many cases, not to the local economy either. Outfitters are just a parasite that are out to make profits, and could care less about the Alberta residents.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by residentguide

people will only apply for antlered or horned tags. Domes not help anything. Just makes it worse and you are paying mor taxes and doing nothing for our wildlife as money does not go there. I don't care were a land owner tag is good for. It is still good in the zone you apply in and I do which Raquel's another tag for the pot for all. Why should he get a special tag? You whine about outfitters. Same thing other than a landowner gets a free gift every year as an outfitter had to many thousands to get a tag which all land owner can deny access for.

Wow....can you proofread before you hit send, or take two breaths....cannot hardly understand the point of this post....but I am sure it is the utmost of importance and should be understood by all.

LC

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Wow....can you proofread before you hit send, or take two breaths....cannot hardly understand the point of this post....but I am sure it is the utmost of importance and should be understood by all.

LC

After about a dozen drinks,it may make more sense.

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Many people that apply for sheep, goat, bison, and some elk tags, have no clue what is involved with the hunt, or even where they have to hunt. Because the application costs so little, they don't care enough to bother doing any research. If they had to commit to paying for the license if drawn, which adds another $40 to $50 to their commitment, some of them would at least do some research, and then decide not to bother applying.

As for landowners, they provide food and habitat all year to many animals, and they provide land for many residents to hunt on, so why shouldn't they get a tag. Outfitters provide nothing as far as habitat, they just bring in non residents that don't contribute in any way to the province, and in many cases, not to the local economy either. Outfitters are just a parasite that are out to make profits, and could care less about the Alberta residents.

BS. To your comments about outfitters and all the money that is brought in to the economy. Funny how most are landowners to. APOS is never going away and neither are any outfitters so deal with it. I still disagree with your comment about jacking tag and app prices. Some crap will happen as is it does now. Just cause you want to waste your money paying more taxes does not mean I do. Wake up as it does nothing to change anything.

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by residentguide

people will only apply for antlered or horned tags. Does not help anything. Just makes it worse and you are paying more taxes and doing nothing for our wildlife as money does not go there. I don't care were a land owner tag is good for. It is still good in the zone you apply in and I do which equals another tag for the pot for all residents. Why should he get a special tag? You whine about outfitters. Same thing other than a landowner gets a free gift every year as an outfitter had to many thousands to get a tag which all land owner can deny access for.

lefty sorry auto correct was on. I fixed it for you.

[elkhunter11]

BS. To your comments about outfitters and all the money that is brought in to the economy.

Remember that a resident usually works here year round, pays income tax to the province, fuel tax, alcohol tax, property tax,etc. He either rents or purchases a home, which he maintains and insures, as well as vehicles that he purchases and maintains, his heating bill, and of course his groceries and the clothing and other products, including his hunting fishing supplies, clothing,yard maintenance, etc. that he purchases in Alberta. Now tell us how that compares to how much an outfitted non resident hunter contributes to our economy.

I still disagree with your comment about jacking tag and app prices

Would you be so kind as to point out exactly where I suggested jacking up tag and application prices?That is going to be difficult, because I made no such suggestion. Obviously it's you, that needs to wake up.

What I did suggest, is that everyone that submits an application, should be charged for the tag immediately after being drawn. After all, if you apply to draw a tag, should your intent not to be to purchase the tag, and use it to hunt, if you are drawn?

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Remember that a resident usually works here year round, pays income tax to the province, fuel tax, alcohol tax, property tax,etc. He either rents or purchases a home, which he maintains and insures, as well as vehicles that he purchases and maintains, his heating bill, and of course his groceries and the clothing and other products, including his hunting fishing supplies, clothing,yard maintenance, etc. that he purchases in Alberta. Now tell us how that compares to how much an outfitted non resident hunter contributes to our economy.
bla bla bla. I never said they paid more then you mr elk. Any money they spend does contribute to our economy. Either way I am not here to argue about how you feel about outfitters.


Would you be so kind as to point out exactly where I suggested jacking up tag and application prices?That is going to be difficult, because I made no such suggestion. Obviously it's you, that needs to wake up.

What I did suggest, is that everyone that submits an application, should be charged for the tag immediately after being drawn. After all, if you apply to draw a tag, should your intent not to be to purchase the tag, and use it to hunt, if you are drawn?

I still disagree. I buy all my tags anyway but explain to me how this will do anything. Actually I want all to prove mathematically how any of your ideas do more than bandaid the dilemma. Srd's proposal makes everything even worse than fixing anything.

[Lefty-Canuck]

The theory is that if people have to pay upfront for tags....that they may rethink applying for so many draws.

It is only a theory however....on average I purchase about as many tags as I can every year, even as a "just in case"....I am sure there are more like me in that respect.

LC

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The theory is that if people have to pay upfront for tags....that they may rethink applying for so many draws.

It is only a theory however....on average I purchase about as many tags as I can every year, even as a "just in case"....I am sure there are more like me in that respect.

LC

I understand as I am the same and have never not bought a tag. But if you want to spend 15 year applying for a tag and waste it that is your own problem. What next you are going to tell me were I can and can't hunt? Just more rules and more tax because someone wasted a tag they had to wait to get. How about people worry more about what they do instead of others. Still does nothing to shorten draw times.

[KBF]

In spite of some longer wait times I feel we are pretty lucky to have what we do. Just look at the variety of species we have to hunt. I know a lot of guys from Utah that will apply for a good 15 years before drawing an elk tag. Then there's the moose,sheep and bear tags that are all draw only. I met guys that had never even seen a black bear in the wild, yet in some places we can have more than one tag. It's hard to say what to do for our children's future here but I'm sure the government will do the right thing.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by KBF

In spite of some longer wait times I feel we are pretty lucky to have what we do. Just look at the variety of species we have to hunt. I know a lot of guys from Utah that will apply for a good 15 years before drawing an elk tag. Then there's the moose,sheep and bear tags that are all draw only. I met guys that had never even seen a black bear in the wild, yet in some places we can have more than one tag. It's hard to say what to do for our children's future here but I'm sure the government will do the right thing.

One of the better posts on this thread.......if not the best. (although not sure about my faith in the government) For the most part we are VERY fortunate to live and hunt in Alberta compared to most jurisdictions. We are so accustomed to what we have, that it is easy to take it for granted.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

One of the better posts on this thread.......if not the best. (although not sure about my faith in the government) For the most part we are VERY fortunate to live and hunt in Alberta compared to most jurisdictions. We are so accustomed to what we have, that it is easy to take it for granted.

The reason it has been so good is because Albertans are progressive. Change is always required. There have been very few things that have stayed the same in the past 10 yrs in this province.

Is there anyone who thinks that the future of hunting can't be as good as the past? With some changes to the current system of course.

[boonedocks]

Here's my two cents on this topic. I personally cannot understand how using the 999 option to bump your priority is making for longer wait times to draw a specific tag. This option gives me the ability to plan future seasons for my self and my family, even Aunt Gertrude is she wants to come this year. As far as people drawing tags that they have minimal knowledge of the species being hunted,I say " you have to start somewhere"! They are entitled to that tag as much as you are, despite your elitist notions. I find it amusing how are pulling monetary numbers out of thin air for application fees and "premium tags"? I myself am planning hunts for 5 people in my household ( not including auntie G) and the numbers that are being thrown around would be a much heavier burden to bear. Which from your point of view would hopefully make me stop applying and increase your odds of being drawn. Not goin happen chuck.I do agree with certain draws needing to be changed, such as wmu 437 sheep as it is mathematically impossible for a new hunter to draw a tag in there lifetime. To this dilemma I offer the only "fair" solution that I can think of : applicants get there name put in the hat one time for every year that they have applied e.g first time applicant gets one entry, applicant with priority 15 gets name in hat 16 times! I do like the idea of people having to pay for there drawn tags but wish that the money went back into the resource and not just into general revenue. Maybe we could have a system like auto registration does with photo radar where you have to clear your account before applying for draws the next year? Just sayin,

[shooter]

Originally Posted by KBF

In spite of some longer wait times I feel we are pretty lucky to have what we do. Just look at the variety of species we have to hunt. I know a lot of guys from Utah that will apply for a good 15 years before drawing an elk tag. Then there's the moose,sheep and bear tags that are all draw only. I met guys that had never even seen a black bear in the wild, yet in some places we can have more than one tag. It's hard to say what to do for our children's future here but I'm sure the government will do the right thing.

Real good post but I would have to say that the rumoured priority cap will most likely give albertans a taste of what you've described happening in Utah.

It will create a race to 10 and every year the odds of being drawn will be reduced further as more and more hunters reach the 10 year priority pool. Poor way of patching a problem IMO. It will also overload many areas that currently are less than the 10 year wait and turn them into longer wait times as well.

A blended draw system would make a lot of sense, where some tags would still be offered by points and some would simply be by lottery. If a person has accumulated 6 priority points on a draw they would have six chances in the lottery pot. If a new hunter coming in applies, that hunter would have 1 chance at the lottery draw side, if unsuccessful they would build a point and have two chances for the next year etc.

There are ways of change, but the right ones are required and hunter input is a key component which ESRD should listen to.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

The reason it has been so good is because Albertans are progressive. Change is always required. There have been very few things that have stayed the same in the past 10 yrs in this province.

The reason we have had it so good is the diverse species of animals and relatively low population.

That said, I agree that there should be some change to help deal with the growing population. IMO, mandatory purchase of a licence when drawn is a no brainer. I would support a nominal increase in the cost of draw applications (in the hopes that it would encourage some forethought into what a person is actually applying for). I would NOT be supportive of major increases though.......that is a slippery slope that we should stay well away from. I would like to see controls on bogus applications and residencies. Once in a lifetime draws should be just that. Finally, I would eliminate outfitter allocations to any species requiring a special draw........we no longer have enough to go around, and residents come first.

Is there anyone who thinks that the future of hunting can't be as good as the past? With some changes to the current system of course.

We will never have as short of wait times as we were accustomed to ever again. There is simply no way around the elephant in the room that is our growing population.

I was going to stay out of this one......

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by shooter

A blended draw system would make a lot of sense where some tags would still be offered by points and some would simply be by lottery. If a person has accumulated 6 priority points on a draw they would have six chances in the lottery pot. If a new hunter coming in applies, that hunter would have 1 change at the lottery draw side, if unsuccessful they would build a point and have two chances for the next year etc.

The blended draw system is a good way to anger the guys who have waited 10 plus years and are guaranteed to get drawn in the foreseeable future. Their odds would be destroyed.

The best solution would be to remove large numbers of applicants from certain draw codes. This can be easily done by only allowing people to only apply for 3 priority based special draws plus one "once in a life time" lottery per year.

You would see acceleration in numbers of hunters drawn if this were to happen. Shorter wait times would be realized.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by boonedocks

Here's my two cents on this topic. I personally cannot understand how using the 999 option to bump your priority is making for longer wait times to draw a specific tag. This option gives me the ability to plan future seasons for my self and my family, even Aunt Gertrude is she wants to come this year. As far as people drawing tags that they have minimal knowledge of the species being hunted,I say " you have to start somewhere"! They are entitled to that tag as much as you are, despite your elitist notions. I find it amusing how are pulling monetary numbers out of thin air for application fees and "premium tags"? I myself am planning hunts for 5 people in my household ( not including auntie G) and the numbers that are being thrown around would be a much heavier burden to bear. Which from your point of view would hopefully make me stop applying and increase your odds of being drawn. Not goin happen chuck.I do agree with certain draws needing to be changed, such as wmu 437 sheep as it is mathematically impossible for a new hunter to draw a tag in there lifetime. To this dilemma I offer the only "fair" solution that I can think of : applicants get there name put in the hat one time for every year that they have applied e.g first time applicant gets one entry, applicant with priority 15 gets name in hat 16 times! I do like the idea of people having to pay for there drawn tags but wish that the money went back into the resource and not just into general revenue. Maybe we could have a system like auto registration does with photo radar where you have to clear your account before applying for draws the next year? Just sayin,

At least read what I had to say before disagreeing with it. Just sayin.

[elkhunter11]

Maybe we could have a system like auto registration does with photo radar where you have to clear your account before applying for draws the next year? Just sayin,

That is a great idea.

[riden]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Not really. If I get my aunt or uncle to apply for a draw, how does that help me? Really, I'm asking a serious question. I don't get it.

There is likely a lot more enforcement where you live.

In the Peace country, carrying a family members moose tag is very common. There is little risk of getting caught and a big reward for the freezer.

When tags were more plentiful and my boys were younger and still at home, we went moose hunting every weekend. I have never once been stopped by a CO moose hunting.

They worry about goose hunters in the fall and deer hunters after that.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by riden

There is likely a lot more enforcement where you live.

In the Peace country, carrying a family members moose tag is very common. There is little risk of getting caught and a big reward for the freezer.

When tags were more plentiful and my boys were younger and still at home, we went moose hunting every weekend. I have never once been stopped by a CO moose hunting.

They worry about goose hunters in the fall and deer hunters after that.

Not to mention partner licenses, where the tag holder gets called to come tag a downed moose, even though he/she never took part in the hunt.

[KBF]

What all is involved with the cap that has been talked about?

[riden]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Not to mention partner licenses, where the tag holder gets called to come tag a downed moose, even though he/she never took part in the hunt.

I get a kick out of the tag holding wives/girlfriends, heading into the bush on the back of the machine, in the prettiest pink snowmobile suits.......



I really wish this province would do something about enforcement. I would be more than willing to pay more in taxes or for tags. if a lot more CO's were hired.