Polite complaint to some of you ATV guys (and SUVers)

[greywolf]

Maybe what should be implemented is a complete ban of ATV users before noon during a hunting season.
Sept 1 to Nov 30, no OHV operation until noon.
Fat chance....
Imagine, a pleasureable hunting experience,
And the non hunters wouldn't ruin it for us, therefore we would have respect for them!!!

[geezer55]

Instead of banning all ATV use till noon why not ban all vehicles from trails that ATV vehicles can use till noon. That way you are treating all vehicle use the same. You'll also have everyone upset.

[Unregistered user]

Ban this! Why should horse back hunters get the edge?

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Ban this! Why should horse back hunters get the edge?

Better question: Why shouldn't they?

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

Better question: Why shouldn't they?

If your going to ban one group you should ban them all.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

If your going to ban one group you should ban them all.

Yah, except horses don't have noisy internal combustion engines that scare away the game that others might be trying to hunt. That's the point of this thread, isn't it? By following your logic, you would have those hunting on foot banned as well?

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

Yah, except horses don't have noisy internal combustion engines that scare away the game that others might be trying to hunt. That's the point of this thread, isn't it? By following your logic, you would have those hunting on foot banned as well?

And there are plenty of people who would love to see just that. It's all just hunting, if we don't get along our enemies win.

[S.A.S]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Ban this! Why should horse back hunters get the edge?

Cause not every hillbilly and his dog own horses. Horse hunters on average also tend to take better care of the environment and Horses arnt as loud as atv's and dont tear up the ground!

[McLeod Valley]

Hunters are not the only people using the bush during the hunting season.

[mangler]

Originally Posted by McLeod Valley

Hunters are not the only people using the bush during the hunting season.

You'd might as well be talking to a wall. There are people who feel entitled to the exclusive use of "their" hunting lands. Since they can't legally enforce a no-trespass rule on land they don't own, they'll seek other ways to achieve the same result.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

Yah, except horses don't have noisy internal combustion engines that scare away the game that others might be trying to hunt. That's the point of this thread, isn't it? By following your logic, you would have those hunting on foot banned as well?

I don't know what you mean by noise scaring away the game. We rode three quads into a valley a couple weeks ago and we seen 6 Cows and three Bull Elk, A Grizzly Bear And a whole wack of deer and they didn't mind the noise. Give your head a shack the animals get used to the noise, they listen to it all summer long. And as for logic, that was my point about banning everybody. Careful what you wish for as we don't want to be banned from the hills.

In my opinion, which is worthless, the closure of areas and trails has made this "problem" what it is.
Closures overpopulate other areas, which cause complaints like the OP.

I have also hunted, the "quad" trails way before the quads were invented. They use to be truck trails. The trucks didn't seem to bother the game back then and the quads don't seem to bother the game now.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I don't know what you mean by noise scaring away the game. We rode three quads into a valley a couple weeks ago and we seen 6 Cows and three Bull Elk, A Grizzly Bear And a whole wack of deer and they didn't mind the noise. Give your head a shack the animals get used to the noise, they listen to it all summer long. And as for logic, that was my point about banning everybody. Careful what you wish for as we don't want to be banned from the hills.

I wasn't wishing for anything (I hunt with a quad at times myself). I just don't think horses should be lumped into the same category as ATV's. As for the noise disturbing game, I could probably give you an example where the noise from a quad engine did scare an animal or two, I'm sure you're not suggesting it doesn't happen.

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Ban this! Why should horse back hunters get the edge?.

Does using a horse give you an edge over a guy on foot? It sure does, why else would someone feed those things all winter? Why should a horse hunter get that edge? Because he's willing to pay for it. But a couple guys on horseback aren't going to disturb the game, disrupt someone else's hunt, or get nearly as far back into the bush before noon (all reasons for the 12 o'clock quad rule) as a couple guys on bikes could. Unregistered user, I guess no one should get an "edge" over anyone else? So i guess if you and I were both hunting on foot, you have $500 hiking boots, I have $150 hiking boots, you'd have an unfair advantage over me? Why should the guys with expensive hiking boots get the edge?

[mangler]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

Does using a horse give you an edge over a guy on foot? It sure does, why else would someone feed those things all winter? Why should a horse hunter get that edge? Because he's willing to pay for it.

Does using a ATV give you an edge over a guy on foot? It sure does, why else would someone maintain those things all year? Why should a ATV hunter get that edge? Because he's willing to pay for it.

But a couple guys on horseback aren't going to disturb the game, disrupt someone else's hunt, or get nearly as far back into the bush before noon (all reasons for the 12 o'clock quad rule) as a couple guys on bikes could. Unregistered user, I guess no one should get an "edge" over anyone else? So i guess if you and I were both hunting on foot, you have $500 hiking boots, I have $150 hiking boots, you'd have an unfair advantage over me? Why should the guys with expensive hiking boots get the edge?

Horses are impractical for all but a minority fortunate enough to have the land to sustain and care for them. But you know that already.

There is a high degree of intellectual dishonesty associated with some of the arguments presented in this thread. The truth is that the motivation for ATV bans has little to do with ecology or "disturbing the game". At the heart of the matter, is resource competition. An ATV ban is a strategy employed to reduce the number of competitors for the province's wildlife resources. It favors the established players, and erects barriers for newcomers.

[bessiedog]

oh shoot... I just can't stay away....

To enlighten all:
University of Calgary is currently studying elk movements of a longitudinal scale to asses the impact of varieties of human interaction... particularly quads....

the data is confirming that elk abandon range they once occupied due to quad usage. The study is including wmu 400, 402, 404, 300 and others I believe.

This study (among others commissioned by SRD) are FACT nails that are being hammered in the coffin for ATV users. The negative annecdotals just contribute to/speed the upcoming 'ban'.

Perhaps you guys should be starting threads as to how quads make the area better....... it might be possible... but doubtful.

bd

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

.

Does using a horse give you an edge over a guy on foot? It sure does, why else would someone feed those things all winter? Why should a horse hunter get that edge? Because he's willing to pay for it. But a couple guys on horseback aren't going to disturb the game, disrupt someone else's hunt, or get nearly as far back into the bush before noon (all reasons for the 12 o'clock quad rule) as a couple guys on bikes could. Unregistered user, I guess no one should get an "edge" over anyone else? So i guess if you and I were both hunting on foot, you have $500 hiking boots, I have $150 hiking boots, you'd have an unfair advantage over me? Why should the guys with expensive hiking boots get the edge?

My point is we should all be allowed in these places to hunt regardless of type of transportation if the land can take it. Even horses leave a mark we've all seen those warnings about noxious-seeds in horse feed etc. infighting opens up chasms for anti-hunters to jump in. For the purists, How do you haul your hosses to the hunting area? Not a noisy infernal cornbustion engine? Umm! This is just like a good ol' fly-fishing versus worm drowning argument, plays for the antis.

[madatter]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Haha, so you too have bounced between, Lost, Lynx, Goat, Carbondale... trying to find a spot not overrun? Haha, on Saturday I hunted the hills above Blairmore.... was the quietest place I could find.

Since the fire it seems that 400 has seen a big jump in off-road activities.
I've never actually hunted opening week there but I can imagine it gettin a little interestin.
About now is when we try to get out there but its not happening this year.Weve seen lots of elk the last few years but all I gotta say is they are alot of work and way up ther with the goats till it gets white out there....

[mangler]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

oh shoot... I just can't stay away....

To enlighten all:
University of Calgary is currently studying elk movements of a longitudinal scale to asses the impact of varieties of human interaction... particularly quads....

the data is confirming that elk abandon range they once occupied due to quad usage. The study is including wmu 400, 402, 404, 300 and others I believe.

This study (among others commissioned by SRD) are FACT nails that are being hammered in the coffin for ATV users. The negative annecdotals just contribute to/speed the upcoming 'ban'.

Perhaps you guys should be starting threads as to how quads make the area better....... it might be possible... but doubtful.

bd

Try not to sound so pleased... it exposes your bias.

[bruceba]

We ride in on the horses and as I've posted before the quad riders we've passed or have been past by are always curtious pulling over and shutting down or passing real slow when we ride to the edge to let them by. We hear them coming from a long ways off and I know the game does to. Big difference is we don't have to watch the trail or where we're putting our feet down leaving more time to watch the world around us. As for the cost of the horses I could think of a few vices that have cost me more over the years.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

oh shoot... I just can't stay away....

To enlighten all:
University of Calgary is currently studying elk movements of a longitudinal scale to asses the impact of varieties of human interaction... particularly quads....

Makes me nervous when the champagne socialists start messing around. Even if they agreed with my position, nothing good will come of it regardless.

But you make a good suggestion, we should start a thread talking about, responsible quad use and put to paper an unofficial code of ethics "Alberta Outdoorsmen" should follow when on our noise machines. It would at least be a positive track for the discussion?

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Makes me nervous when the champagne socialists start messing around. Even if they agreed with my position, nothing good will come of it regardless.

You got that right Sneeze.

It's all a matter of convenience and the "me first" attitude.

If the same U of C study came up with info suggesting that hunting was unsustainable in some zones, you'd hear the very same people that are quoting it as undeniable proof and facts now, dismissing the same work and those doing it, as biased and out of touch with reality. Want some proof? Check any thread on the grizzly hunt on this forum.

The fact is, these studies will inevitably suggest that any access or disturbance has a negative impact, from 10,000 quads to one guy walking around on foot.

They have a bias and a goal in mind too, and outdoorsmen should be very careful what they hitch their wagons to.

Waxy

[Unregistered user]

^ What he said.

[Rockyman]

As a flyfisherman who has had days ruined because of inconsiderate quadders it's nice to see the hunting community starting to get tired of it as well. Time for this government to establish some serious rules regarding OHV usage (and to enforce the rules that are already there). Those things are a blight on Alberta's wilderness areas.

[bessiedog]

Whoa! I am fine with quads for people that need them...... I stopped using them in '95 when I noticed that they were tearing up the trails I used too much. I probably will get my dad one.. cause its the only way we'd be able to get him and his knees to a shooting stand (mind you... we'll be on private land).

I think hunters should be qualified to use quads in much the same way that disabled people are allowed to use crossbows during archery season.

Get off your quads... loose a few pounds, save our Healthcare system some $$ by doing someting healthy. I've helped seniors pack out animals by quad... some oldtimers need it.... I'm fine with that.

Possible solution... we should restrict quad use to age 55+.... bet we'd see way less wrecked trails etc.

re: the u fo C study... It dosen't matter if you think the study was done by a the 'mao Che Stalin pinko commie fashist homo' interest group..... the main thing is:

1. the study was commissioned by SRD.
2. Our minister Teddy says its legit.
3. The writing will soon be on the wall...... unless

Quadders move fast and police themselves aggressively!!! There's some simple ways of getting rid of the bad apples: area permits, volunteer checkers (like steam ghillies), join a non-profit quad group (IE CNP quad squad) and reverse the bad education and actions out there.

But... sadly they're mostly a bunch of 'lone wolf, rugged individualists' who hate 'socialist' activities (read does not play well with others). This is why the demise will happen.

am I happy about this?

I'd like to go hunting with my dad a few more times, and quads are pretty much the only way. He's too big for me to pack out, unless I quarter him up.... and he's quicker on the draw than me.

[Morbius131]

I can't believe I am sitting here reading that outdoorsman are talking about banning more things...why ban anything? Why not police it better among the outdoor community? Close trails to OHV, close this area and that area to OHV...what next close areas to public use or better yet ban the public from accessing certain land with hunting equipment? This is rediculous! You are playing with a very slippery slope all. If you want to ban OHV fine, but then your 4x4 truck in those areas will be banned shortly after, followed by your horses and any other way to access the area and finally hunters will be banned.

I agree that certain OHV users give the rest of us a bad name but come on you can't paint a whole group with the same brush.

Educated regulation and self policing is what is needed. Not the banning of anything!

Morb

[bessiedog]

Morb.

I like the idea of A.O. helping create a code of ethics. I really think that AGFA and you guys should find a way to create a trail steward association or some kindof quad association that helps encourage people in the field to 'take pictures' and help police the area. Or at least promote serious education programs.

I think AO is in a good position to be a catalyst here.

I disagree with the slippery slope argument. Polls suggest that the average canadian urban dweller is ok with hunting when ethically done.

Quad groups need the start to generate some positive PR for themselves. But they gotta clean themselves up first before they start.

The hunting industry of Canada (wiith the help of the NRA) have done a great job of presenting a nice clean version of the hunting industry, and I am very thankful for that. But the quad industry (look at the commercials) revel in their 'tearing it up' look. This may sell quads, but it sure as heck dosen't sell quadders/quadding to the general public.

Admittedly it is a bit easier for hunting to present itself well to urbans. We have an actual provable positive role to play in society.

I go back to my previous post: what could quadders present that's positive to society???......

c'mon lets hear some ideas.

bd

[S.A.S]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Morb.

I like the idea of A.O. helping create a code of ethics. I really think that AGFA and you guys should find a way to create a trail steward association or some kindof quad association that helps encourage people in the field to 'take pictures' and help police the area. Or at least promote serious education programs.

I think AO is in a good position to be a catalyst here.

I disagree with the slippery slope argument. Polls suggest that the average canadian urban dweller is ok with hunting when ethically done.

Quad groups need the start to generate some positive PR for themselves. But they gotta clean themselves up first before they start.

The hunting industry of Canada (wiith the help of the NRA) have done a great job of presenting a nice clean version of the hunting industry, and I am very thankful for that. But the quad industry (look at the commercials) revel in their 'tearing it up' look. This may sell quads, but it sure as heck dosen't sell quadders/quadding to the general public.

Admittedly it is a bit easier for hunting to present itself well to urbans. We have an actual provable positive role to play in society.

I go back to my previous post: what could quadders present that's positive to society???......

c'mon lets hear some ideas.

bd

I agree with most of this, Im not one to call the police tho Under any circumstances.

[elkhunter11]

Educated regulation and self policing is what is needed.

I don't see that working.However if a helicopter flying overhead spotted an atv in a no atv zone,and the offender had his atv confiscated for good,and a fine of say $5000 levied,after a few such examples,there would be far fewer people ignoring the regulations.Make examples of the violators,and leave the law abiding atv operators alone.

I agree with most of this, Im not one to call the police tho Under any circumstances.

I for one will take pictures of the offenders and then report them to the authorities.The sooner the violators are dealt with,the sooner that the law abiding atv operators will be left alone.

[S.A.S]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't see that working.However if a helicopter flying overhead spotted an atv in a no atv zone,and the offender had his atv confiscated for good,and a fine of say $5000 levied,after a few such examples,there would be far fewer people ignoring the regulations.Make examples of the violators,and leave the law abiding atv operators alone.



I for one will take pictures of the offenders and then report them to the authorities.The sooner the violators are dealt with,the sooner that the law abiding atv operators will be left alone.

I support you doing that 110%

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

I disagree with the slippery slope argument. Polls suggest that the average canadian urban dweller is ok with hunting when ethically done.

I'm pretty sure that polls on OHV usage show the exact same thing.

That hasn't stopped many here, professed OHV users included, from calling for a ban on OHV use.

Waxy