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Old 02-25-2016, 08:21 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Default Possible new way to get our oil to tide water.

Bitumen railway from Alberta to Alaska proposed by Van Horne Institute

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...tute-1.3462332

A new study is proposing an alternate way to get Alberta's bitumen to tidewater — through a combination of rail and pipeline.

The report released today by the Van Horne Institute studies the feasibility of building a railway from Fort McMurray to Delta Junction, Alaska, for bitumen transport. From there, the bitumen would be piped to Valdez for shipment to world markets.

The estimated capital cost of the project is between $28 billion and $34 billion, based on production of one to 1.5 million barrels per day.

"The study indicates that this will be a railway built with safety as the paramount factor," said Peter Wallis, president and CEO of the Van Horne Institute.

A number of different routes were considered and ultimately rejected because of their proximity to areas that are environmentally protected, support migratory, sensitive or endangered species, or are important for wildlife and biodiversity, he said.

Between 16 and 24 specialized trains would travel the railway route each day, "built with basically safety as the prime consideration," he said, adding that the flammability of bitumen is "extremely low."

Some First Nations support

Wallis said that researchers held information sessions with First Nations leadership and bands directly affected by the project, some of whom have indicated they would support the project.

"The important factor here is the First Nations are engaged in this process," said Wallis.

A number of other organizations, including Shirocca Consulting, AECOM, Generating for Seven Generations (G7G), the University of Alaska (Fairbanks) and Michigan Tech Research Institute were also involved in the process.

Wallis suggested that the project would most likely be funded privately, but hopes that investors recognize the potential to "unlock a huge amount of mineralization" on either side of the route.

According to the study, deposits of copper, gold, coal and iron ore have been identified within 50 kilometres on either side of the proposed railway corridor and could be developed for market.

"This is really the thrust of what we're asking, is for thoughtful consideration of this report, looking at it over the long-term view that I think we have to bring to major nation-building projects."
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2016, 08:33 AM
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One can only hope...
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2016, 09:03 AM
Fisherpeak Fisherpeak is offline
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3 words
First Nations support.
Forget it.
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2016, 09:13 AM
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Elkaholic338 Elkaholic338 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Fisherpeak View Post
3 words
First Nations support.
Forget it.
Support for projects is always for sale. It just depends if they are willing to pay the asking price.
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2016, 09:22 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Support for projects is always for sale. It just depends if they are willing to pay the asking price.
Yep, the Tides foundation and the Sierra Club already paid off the natives for the other pipeline routes.
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2016, 09:37 AM
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So are we selling our oil to the states or are we paying a fee to use their land and get it to the coast?
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2016, 03:34 PM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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A friend of mine at Wellington West has been working on this for over two years. Best as he's willing to let on, this was either started by or quickly got a lot of FN support.
Two major limfacs are FN request/requirement/demand for "Government loan guarantees" and about 2500 rail cars PER DAY to support a 1.5Mbpd capacity over some pretty gnarly terrain.
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:45 PM
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So, we're going to pick the less safe way to get our oil to market ? Pipeline over the same route would make more sense if we're going to do it.

Grizz
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:51 PM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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Because it's a railway, it doesn't have to go so the same pitifully slow approval process apparently needed for pipelines.
FNs et al can't oppose the port because it already exists; expansion will be far easier than building a new one.
A railway is multi-purpose, can be an easier sell to northern communities than a single-purpose pipeline.
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Old 02-25-2016, 05:49 PM
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If they have First Nations support, what could possibly go wrong?
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:09 PM
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So still no plans to ship refined materials....too bad, lots of plans to export your jobs.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:10 PM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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The customer doesn't want refined materials. Is it really so difficult to understand that you can't force someone to buy something that he doesn't want?
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Old 02-25-2016, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Gill View Post
The customer doesn't want refined materials. Is it really so difficult to understand that you can't force someone to buy something that he doesn't want?
It is difficult to understand, if you cannot comprehend that without the raw materials they don't get to feed their refineries or factories and their economy suffers. We should cut off the raw logs while we are at it, get some of our sawmills up and running again.
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Old 02-25-2016, 09:13 PM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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Then let me explain grade school supply and demand to you: the customer wants a specific product. You want to sell him something else, so he goes to another supplier to get what he wants.
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2016, 10:31 PM
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Fair enough, no need for a pipeline or railroad then is there.
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  #16  
Old 02-25-2016, 10:41 PM
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I'm all for this. Right on.
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2016, 07:01 AM
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US will find a way to block and keep Canadian oil from being produced. That way they keep current production cheap and keeps more oil in the ground for their national security later.

Remember time value of money. Profit made today has far higher value than profit made 20 years from now.
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  #18  
Old 02-26-2016, 08:11 AM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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Quote:
Fair enough, no need for a pipeline or railroad then is there.
Remarkably moronic conclusion.

Better stop shipping wheat and only export bread. Better stop shipping lumber and only export complete buildings...
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  #19  
Old 02-26-2016, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride View Post

The estimated capital cost of the project is between $28 billion and $34 billion, based on production of one to 1.5 million barrels per day.
So double what Energy East or triple what Keystone XL is/was estimated to cost... ouch. Wonder if the estimates include the $$$ to pay off every band along the way. That's billions more.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:09 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
So double what Energy East or triple what Keystone XL is/was estimated to cost... ouch. Wonder if the estimates include the $$$ to pay off every band along the way. That's billions more.
The private investors know that Saudi can't keep the taps open for ever. Now is the time to build a pipeline. It is to bad the east wants to keep importing blood oil.
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  #21  
Old 02-26-2016, 01:04 PM
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Isn't Alaska part of the USA??? Good Luck with that one.
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  #22  
Old 02-26-2016, 08:34 PM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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Quote:
Isn't Alaska part of the USA??? Good Luck with that one.
Why?
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  #23  
Old 02-26-2016, 08:50 PM
deerassassin deerassassin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashi View Post
Isn't Alaska part of the USA??? Good Luck with that one.
Just checked my back roads Mapbook it's in northern Kazakhstan. 😀🔫
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  #24  
Old 02-26-2016, 09:18 PM
PINEHURST-PIKE-FREAK PINEHURST-PIKE-FREAK is offline
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How about the rest of the country say F U Quebec anyone else who says no to the Energy East Pipeline! F U BC too, Canada is known for its natural resources and we all benefit from it. No Trudeau we aren't going to be known for our resourcefullness ,you idiot this isn't the first oil/economical hardship we have been through. If you're worried about the carbon footprint talk to China because Canada is #9 on the list for the worlds biggest poluters.Let's vote Canada wide on how our oil is getting to the world market.
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2016, 11:53 PM
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a lot of mineral wealth, and good paying mining and trades jobs are not being developed even when commodity prices are high in northern BC and the Yukon because of lack of market access or the cost of getting the goods to market.

I like this proposal because of the diversity of resources that can be utilized by it.
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