To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[209x50]

Hunter success surveys from SRD will start being emailed out today. In the survey there is a question on whether you agree or disagree with crossbows in archery season. Your vote will decide the future, so here is a chance to make your voice heard.

[Elkaholic6]

With my recent purchase of a compound bow just for archery season, I don't know if I agree or disagree haha...

[AxeMan]

Is this question on the survey going to be the single deciding factor to whether or not crossbows will be included in archery season?

At least they are going take input from us hunters on the matter. I can now make an educated decision based on all the info exchanged so far in all the crossbow threads.

[dennisb]

Hopefully every votes NO. The ABA has had simular votes with in thier members as well.

[walking buffalo]

I'll be voting NO.

I guess I'm selfish in that I don't want to see Mule Deer Archery season to go on a draw.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by dennisb

The ABA has had simular votes with in thier members as well.

Really? Wow.... makes you think.

Anyone heard the results yet of the APOS poll of their members as to whether unlicenced guides from the US should be allocated tags?

[steve]

Vote NO!

[crazyfish]

i think it should be fairly easy to foresee the results of that .... the majority will say ....YES !

I know that there are lots of people here that will say no, but i believe there is a lot more that would like access to extra time afield and will say YES !!

209 - you didn't say which way you woud vote !!!

personally i'm voting yes. i think in the long run it's for the better, despite the changes it might bring with it ! I personally won't be using one, but my daughters might ?

Let the debate begin !!!!

[shorty]

I will be voteing "yes". I grew up in BC where you can use a crossbow in bow only seasons and it definately put more people in the field and gets them into hunting. Yes crossbows are easier to learn for most but there is no advantage in tragectory or distance you have to get to the animal for an ethical kill. One still needs all the patience and stalking skills as with a compound bow. I keep hearing that we need more people involved in hunting and this is a good way to do it.

[DuckBrat]

Originally Posted by shorty

One still needs all the patience and stalking skills as with a compound bow.

Yeah...NO!

If you do a kinestetic comparison of the two weapons you will find it is much easier to hunt with a cross-bow than with a bow. I would more than triple my success ratio if I was able to use a cross-bow during my spot and stalk of animals during the season. The fact that I would not have to draw back when the animal is 30 yards or closer would have assured me animals on those stalks where I was busted when the deer spotted me on my draw. Lesson learned and I get to try it again later that day on an even bigger deer. What am I getting at here, the bow kill takes more effort, patience, skill, and finesse. There is no disputing that fact and it is for that reason I bowhunt. It allows me a chance to truly hone my hunting skill and truly enjoy the time outside.
In a nutshell then, grouping crossbow with archery is brain-dead idea as the two hunting styles are not comparable based on the moments leading up to the shot. Crossbow is point and shoot like a camera or gun with a shorter range. The bow requires a range of movement before the shot which allows the animal a window to spot you, even in the stand and greatly reducing your chances of success.

For those that are handicapped , sure there should there should be concessions for shooting a crossbow while hunting but that is a different argument that does not belong on this thread as it just muddies the water.

Voting NO, hopefully I won't get suspended or banned for my POV. Just noticed in an old thread that many who supported the No side were somehow banned/suspended from the website, not sure if the two issues are linked, certainly hope not, that would be unethical.

[crazyfish]

I love hunting with my bow ! But i will vote yes

I also think that the future has them in the archery season, and the sooner we are working to get the system working better, then its a positive thing. I truely think that most of the guys that will vote no, are just being selfish and not looking to the future.

I believe there will be poblems and changes that won't please everyone , but long term will be a better system ! My .02$

[catnthehat]

Deleted by catnthehat

[YGF]

another thought wood be that it might get more "hunters" in the bush that will, like rifles, try and shoot at anything. being in the mindset that its basicly a "rifle" shooting an arrow, and not having to have the skill of a decent bowhunter to down game in a humane fashion................. pretty much im guessing theres is going to be more wounded animals that wont get tracked down and go to waste... just my 2 cents..........

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by YGF

another thought wood be that it might get more "hunters" in the bush that will, like rifles, try and shoot at anything. being in the mindset that its basicly a "rifle" shooting an arrow, and not having to have the skill of a decent bowhunter to down game in a humane fashion................. pretty much im guessing theres is going to be more wounded animals that wont get tracked down and go to waste... just my 2 cents..........

Alot of assumptions there. Also sort of runs counter to the argument that it's easier to hunt with a crossbow than a bow. If it's easier, should be able to get a higher percentage of clean kills. Is there any sort of certification at all with regard to bows to even remotely suggest the user knows what he's doing or knows how to "down game in a humane fashion"?

[steve]

Two tunring points for AB hunters that one day we will wish we could go back and change:

1) RAMP

2) Permitting crossbows for use in archery season.

[AxeMan]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Alot of assumptions there. Also sort of runs counter to the argument that it's easier to hunt with a crossbow than a bow. If it's easier, should be able to get a higher percentage of clean kills. Is there any sort of certification at all with regard to bows to even remotely suggest the user knows what he's doing or knows how to "down game in a humane fashion"?

Or rifles, or shotguns, or muzzle loaders. Oko, AHEIA will train hunters for basic knowledge but you should know better than to ask a question like that.

[pottymouth]

Well since they are trying to make it like the states, I would vote yes, " IF " they completely followed through on it, and they modeled it like Ohio, since it's one of the examples the pro crossbower refer to!! . How great would look to have a season like they have !!!!


Archery season ( including Xbows)............Sept 25th - Feb 6th
Muzzleloader season ...............................Oct 18th - Oct 23rd
Youth Gun Season ..................................Nov 20th - Nov 21st
Gun season .............................Nov 29th - Dec 5th and Dec 18th -Dec 19th
Muzzleloader season................................ Jan 8th - Jan 11th

http://www.ohiodnr.com/wildlife/dow/...10huntregs.pdf

I don't think anyone would want this.

Unfortunatley the misconception of increased hunter oppoturnity is a farse, as Walking buffalo quickly showed.

What may work in other provinces or states, and the numbers they give, have nothing to do with Alberta.

Before we go jumping into something that might hurt all hunters in this province we should look into other options like a crossbow combine with muzzleloaders season, that takes a week from archers and a week from rifle hunters. A pilot program set up in a couple of stratigic zones, to see what the reprocusions or benefits of a decision like this , would do. Then we would have more concrete numbers to work with to perhaps justify this.

The next thing will be Paid hunting and hunting leases you watch !

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by DuckBrat

Yeah...NO!

If you do a kinestetic comparison of the two weapons you will find it is much easier to hunt with a cross-bow than with a bow. I would more than triple my success ratio if I was able to use a cross-bow during my spot and stalk of animals during the season. The fact that I would not have to draw back when the animal is 30 yards or closer would have assured me animals on those stalks where I was busted when the deer spotted me on my draw. Lesson learned and I get to try it again later that day on an even bigger deer. What am I getting at here, the bow kill takes more effort, patience, skill, and finesse. There is no disputing that fact and it is for that reason I bowhunt. It allows me a chance to truly hone my hunting skill and truly enjoy the time outside.
In a nutshell then, grouping crossbow with archery is brain-dead idea as the two hunting styles are not comparable based on the moments leading up to the shot. Crossbow is point and shoot like a camera or gun with a shorter range. The bow requires a range of movement before the shot which allows the animal a window to spot you, even in the stand and greatly reducing your chances of success.

For those that are handicapped , sure there should there should be concessions for shooting a crossbow while hunting but that is a different argument that does not belong on this thread as it just muddies the water.

Voting NO, hopefully I won't get suspended or banned for my POV. Just noticed in an old thread that many who supported the No side were somehow banned/suspended from the website, not sure if the two issues are linked, certainly hope not, that would be unethical.

Yeah....YES

i hear you on the banned suspended stuff, if you wanna get too extreme about any subject it could likely get you booted, stay cool and you'll probably be fine...or so i see it, only so much dead horse beating a forum can take you know

anyhow, you will not triple your success with crossbow, hey, maybe the odd guy could but he might have some interesting hunting and shooting styles...never know?.... all the places that include it within a couple percent of compound success rates...so from game manage standpoint...its 100% bow...oh and since your so keen on honing your skills etc. do you hunt with a recurve or compound bow? if compound then your standing on your own you know whats....thats gotta hurt

you have some homework to catch up on, research the tool (crossbow) and learn about its true field capabilities, your whole post is wrong

[DuckBrat]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

you have some homework to catch up on, research the tool (crossbow) and learn about its true field capabilities, your whole post is wrong

Yeah...NO.

Please fill me in on where I might be wrong on the ease of shooting crossbow as compared to bow?? How many muscle groups/reps of training does it take to shoot a bow successfully as compared to pointing a crossbow and pulling a trigger?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by DuckBrat

Yeah...NO.

Please fill me in on where I might be wrong on the ease of shooting crossbow as compared to bow?? How many muscle groups/reps of training does it take to shoot a bow successfully as compared to pointing a crossbow and pulling a trigger?

Yeah.....YES.

most of us took the time to learn about it, do the same, read just the crossbow threads here on ABO and you'll have a better idea, if harvest success rates are the same does that tell you anything?

but if i must.....success rates are 99% hunter 1% tool......ie; having to draw in the presence of game isn't the monster factor people make it out to be, otherwise success rates would show that....so what i'm saying, what the success rates are saying, is....a successful hunter is so regardless of what tool is in his hands, your constantly adapting and changing to suit a hunt and make it happen within the tools limitations.....the tool will never make you a superstar killer

at the very very end of the day....its just another bow

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Yeah....YES

anyhow, you will not triple your success with crossbow, hey, maybe the odd guy could but he might have some interesting hunting and shooting styles...never know?.... all the places that include it within a couple percent of compound success rates...so from game manage standpoint...its 100% bow...oh and since your so keen on honing your skills etc. do you hunt with a recurve or compound bow? if compound then your standing on your own you know whats....thats gotta hurt

you have some homework to catch up on, research the tool (crossbow) and learn about its true field capabilities, your whole post is wrong

Maybe YOU should do YOUR homework?I defy you to show me a single stat from ANY of "the places that include it within a couple percent of compound success rates" ....that's complete BS!

To the contrary,I can easily provide stats that show x-bows having up to 4X and more the success rates over compound hunters.And to the hunter that claims 3x the success with an x-bow,from my own expereince,I would say you are being conservative.Just on one single,2 day,spot&stalk archery bear hunt this past fall,I can honestly say I seen 9 bears,I had ONE clear shot opp that I elected to pass on,at least 6 slam dunks had I been carrying a rifle,4 or 5 of those would have been very doable and within range had I been carrying a cocked and loaded,ready to fire instantly crossgun.

[packhuntr]

Watch out Grinr, your gonna get it now,,, a bunch of stats that is. And to top it off, you will hear that you are wrong, you obviously not a capable archer or it would have happened for you,,, the Xbow would not have done the job for you, and to top er off you will be labelled an Anti-Hunter. Basically, a bunch of guys that know nothing of bowhunting are on the way, and they are gonna be looking to sort you, and that post of yours out... Best brace yourself my man.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by grinr

Maybe YOU should do YOUR homework?I defy you to show me a single stat from ANY of "the places that include it within a couple percent of compound success rates" ....that's complete BS!

To the contrary,I can easily provide stats that show x-bows having up to 4X and more the success rates over compound hunters.And to the hunter that claims 3x the success with an x-bow,from my own expereince,I would say you are being conservative.Just on one single,2 day,spot&stalk archery bear hunt this past fall,I can honestly say I seen 9 bears,I had ONE clear shot opp that I elected to pass on,at least 6 slam dunks had I been carrying a rifle,4 or 5 of those would have been very doable and within range had I been carrying a cocked and loaded,ready to fire instantly crossgun.

Here ya go:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09193/983377-358.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09144/972185-358.stm

http://www.cleveland.com/outdoors/in...nds_again.html

Okay, your turn.

Originally Posted by grinr

To the contrary,I can easily provide stats that show x-bows having up to 4X and more the success rates over compound hunters..

Please, provide them.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Hunter success surveys from SRD will start being emailed out today. In the survey there is a question on whether you agree or disagree with crossbows in archery season. Your vote will decide the future, so here is a chance to make your voice heard.

I have to wonder if EVERY Ab. hunter will recieve this mail out? Or will it be like the migratory surveys where only afew recieve them?

[Stipa comata]

I would have give this the nod likely.

Thanks WB and 209 for clearing it up

I will be voting NO.

If I want to buy a cross bow I can still hunt in the rifle season.

[YoungBuck]

i will be voting NO like i beleive every one else should. The only reason an able bodied person has to use a cross bow is their own laziness. If this thing is passed i foresee my 248 hunting spot over run with cross bow hunters.

[livinthedream]

I have voted NO! Despite that I agree with many of the posters that cross bows will not provide an advantage over regular bows in many situations, there are definately some areas of concern. I do all my bow hunting in WMU 212. The Calgary bow zone is comprised of a wide variety of terrain - prairies, river valleys, agriculture zones and small acreage developments. For the most part, getting within 60 yards of a mature game animal requires considerable skill. Getting an arrow into the vitals another level of expertise. Cross bow hunters will be on a level playing field with "vertical" bow hunters. Where I am concerned about a possible un-level playing field is in and around the acreage developments. Game animals in these areas tend to be accustomed to vehicle traffic. They often do not even look up when a vehicle drives by. Now when most people talk about road hunting they tend to refer to rifle hunters. It is far easier to shoot a rifle out of a open truck window or to jump out and fire a rifle then it is to do the same with a "vertical" bow. In fact it is impossible to shoot a vertical bow out the truck window! The same can't be said for a loaded and cocked cross bow. The cross bow can be a very efficient and deadly poaching tool. This past summer there were several incidents of poachers on Vancouver Island killing mature trophy Black-Tails in residential areas in and around Victoria. Cross bow bolts were recovered and in one case the poacher was apprehended and his cross bow confiscated. Now don't get me wrong, this issue is about allowing cross bow hunters (not poachers) to hunt along side regular bow hunters. I'm just worried about the possibility of a new breed of road hunters developing due to the proliferation of a compact, quiet and deadly weapon.

[ghglenn]

Originally Posted by livinthedream

I have voted NO! Despite that I agree with many of the posters that cross bows will not provide an advantage over regular bows in many situations, there are definately some areas of concern. I do all my bow hunting in WMU 212. The Calgary bow zone is comprised of a wide variety of terrain - prairies, river valleys, agriculture zones and small acreage developments. For the most part, getting within 60 yards of a mature game animal requires considerable skill. Getting an arrow into the vitals another level of expertise. Cross bow hunters will be on a level playing field with "vertical" bow hunters. Where I am concerned about a possible un-level playing field is in and around the acreage developments. Game animals in these areas tend to be accustomed to vehicle traffic. They often do not even look up when a vehicle drives by. Now when most people talk about road hunting they tend to refer to rifle hunters. It is far easier to shoot a rifle out of a open truck window or to jump out and fire a rifle then it is to do the same with a "vertical" bow. In fact it is impossible to shoot a vertical bow out the truck window! The same can't be said for a loaded and cocked cross bow. The cross bow can be a very efficient and deadly poaching tool. This past summer there were several incidents of poachers on Vancouver Island killing mature trophy Black-Tails in residential areas in and around Victoria. Cross bow bolts were recovered and in one case the poacher was apprehended and his cross bow confiscated. Now don't get me wrong, this issue is about allowing cross bow hunters (not poachers) to hunt along side regular bow hunters. I'm just worried about the possibility of a new breed of road hunters developing due to the proliferation of a compact, quiet and deadly weapon.

You have no clue.

Ohio man pleads guilty to poaching largest deer killed in North America in 2009 with a compound bow:

http://naweoa.org/joomla15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92h io-man-pleads-guilty-to-poaching-largest-deer-killed-in-north-america-in-2009&catid=4:us-news&Itemid=82

[livinthedream]

Originally Posted by ghglenn

You have no clue.

Ohio man pleads guilty to poaching largest deer killed in North America in 2009 with a compound bow:

http://naweoa.org/joomla15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92h io-man-pleads-guilty-to-poaching-largest-deer-killed-in-north-america-in-2009&catid=4:us-news&Itemid=82

I admit that poachers can use all kinds of weapons to take animals. As a matter of fact I just received a private message that explained how easy it was to shoot a compound bow from a open truck door. I had never considered that. This summer/fall had an unusually high number of poaching incidents in and around Victoria B.C. residential neighborhoods with poachers utilizing cross bows. I just would not want to see that occuring in Alberta as a result of legalized cross bow hunting in the Bow Zones! Right now if you were pulled over in the bow zone and you were packing a cross bow there would be some questions asked. Once legalized I would be concerned that the temptation would be too great for some. Am I wrong in thinking that a cross bow could be a deadly poaching tool? They were the weapon of choice for poachers on Vancouver Island this fall. Please believe me that I am not trying to paint all cross bow users as criminals - just concerned that the apparatus might be used the wrong way. I support all ethical hunting and all ethical hunters regardless of their style of hunting.