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09-12-2018, 10:15 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,253
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Harvesting Cow Moose
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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09-13-2018, 01:09 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,906
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Good post.
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09-13-2018, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: southeast alberta
Posts: 1,178
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Good reading, Thanks
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09-13-2018, 07:44 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Ontario has been promoting this strategy and publishing this chart for decades illustrating the effects of choosing to shoot a bull vs a cow,at least since the early 90s anyhow when I lived there.
They also consider calves expendable,reasoning that calves are the most vulnerable part of the population and most susceptible to wolf predation and winter kill,and when a cow loses a calf to hunting she will breed again sooner,therefore they allow everybody to buy a calf tag.
ie;they have group applications or “party hunting” as they call it for the moose draw and allow up to 8 hunters per party.
Everybody buys a tag valid for calf at the time of application,then the party of 8 might for example get drawn for let’s say 1 or 2 or more adult tags,anybody in the hunting party can fill the adult tags until they are all filled,and everybody is licensed to take a calf.
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited. 
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09-13-2018, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 137
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The same applies to all species who populations require close monitoring. Alberta still feels the need to issue Ewe tags for some reason.
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"The world around me disappeared. I caressed the trigger with my index finger, knowing that a scant two pounds of pressure would cause it to unleash the firing pin and set in motion a series of events that would be catastrophic for one of us." - T.J Schwanky
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09-13-2018, 08:22 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,261
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cow moose
From what I understand , the main reason Bio's allow cow/antlerless moose tags is areas where they are trying to save caribou. They want to lower overall moose population to lower feed for wolves, less litters of pups, then less caribou eaten for desert.
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09-13-2018, 08:27 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Drayton Valley, AB
Posts: 693
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It is pretty simple really! Same goes for whitetails etc.
Thanks for sharing.
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09-13-2018, 09:36 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,224
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Who is this chart meant for?
The really really "slow" people?
With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.
Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?
I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.
Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
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Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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09-13-2018, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 157
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an incomplete idea that fits well for an outfitter, profiting off trophy hunting, that suggests any other type of hunting or hunting thats done by those who arent their clients, has negative impacts on the population.
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09-13-2018, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Leduc
Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Who is this chart meant for?
The really really "slow" people?
With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.
Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?
I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.
Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
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I agree. There is also an inefficient ratio of bulls to cows as well whenthe number of cows is much higher. Now what that number is I don't know.
But I doubt 1 bull to 1000 cows would be good.
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09-13-2018, 09:57 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Who is this chart meant for?
The really really "slow" people?
With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.
Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?
I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.
Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
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I think it’s merely to illustrate the difference in future offspring if you are given the choice between shooting a cow vs. a bull?
Again,Ontario has been promoting this model for decades,but I honestly don’t remember if adult tags there are sex specific,I’m guessing they are not if the MNR feels compelled to include this chart with the moose draw facts booklet?
I can tell you however that NB for one and probably other provinces,moose tags are valid for either sex,in NB a moose is a moose is a moose,if you get drawn shoot whatever you want bull,cow,or calf.With NB tags so hard to draw average 15year wait and a short 5 day season(was 3 days until just a few years ago) many hunters will whack the first moose they can put x-hairs on as for many it’s almost a once in a lifetime tag.
The reproduction model is merely informative for hunters in places like Alberta where tags are sex specific,it’s not like we have a choice to shoot one or the other anyhow.
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
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09-13-2018, 10:13 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
I think it’s merely to illustrate the difference in future offspring if you are given the choice between shooting a cow vs. a bull?
Again,Ontario has been promoting this model for decades,but I honestly don’t remember if adult tags there are sex specific,I’m guessing they are not if the MNR feels compelled to include this chart with the moose draw facts booklet?
I can tell you however that NB for one and probably other provinces,moose tags are valid for either sex,in NB a moose is a moose is a moose,if you get drawn shoot whatever you want bull,cow,or calf.With NB tags so hard to draw average 15year wait and a short 5 day season(was 3 days until just a few years ago) many hunters will whack the first moose they can put x-hairs on as for many it’s almost a once in a lifetime tag.
The reproduction model is merely informative for hunters in places like Alberta where tags are sex specific,it’s not like we have a choice to shoot one or the other anyhow.
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I sure hope not.
The chart is so simplistic in terms of the effects of hunting mortality in population management as to be useless, thus faulty to a point of being nothing but propaganda.
Promoting this kind of "educational information" does not benefit hunting in itself or wildlife management that includes hunting.
If hunters and wildlife agencies can't or won't grasp and proffer realistic education as to the reasons and effects of hunting induced mortality on specific populations then there will be great difficulty in maintaining hunting as a critical part of wildlife conservation.
Let's not be that special kid....
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Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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09-13-2018, 10:56 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Who is this chart meant for?
The really really "slow" people?
With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception
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I beg to differ.
It’s not faulty from its conception at all because realistically we’re not talking about an initial population of only one bull and one cow.
One bull can service several cows each fall and a cow that isn’t bred in September will come into estrous every 3-4 weeks until December or until she “hooks up”.So if you have 5 bulls and 5 cows let’s say,you can shoot 3 or 4 bulls and all 5 cows are still gonna get bred and produce the same 5-10 calves next Spring,but every cow you shoot potentially takes 3 moose out of the herd with one bullet,plus all of the future offspring from the original cow and any female calves down the line.
Again,it’s not meant to be a simplistic approach to moose management nor to insult your intelligence,but rather I believe it’s to help encourage hunters in areas with either sex tags to harvest bulls vs. cows if given the choice.
....and let’s face it,many hunters aren’t the sharpest pencil in the box and a lil reminder that cows are the future can’t hurt.
All it’s saying is if you hunt in an either sex jurisdiction and have the opportunity to take a cow,maybe you might want hold out for a bull?Its playing on the conservation minded hunter’s conscience to “do the right thing” for the future of moose hunting.
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
Last edited by West O'5; 09-13-2018 at 11:03 AM.
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09-13-2018, 12:33 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 304
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[I]Are hunters on average really this slow,/I]
First consider how slow the average hunter is, and then realize that 50% of hunters are slower than that.
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09-13-2018, 12:49 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Who is this chart meant for?
The really really "slow" people?
With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.
Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?
I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.
Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
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Agreed!! A simple chart for simple minds...
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09-13-2018, 12:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,906
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I don’t mind a conservation message being simplified for a poster.
Walking Buffalo, if you shot the bull. Odds are very good another bull breeds the cow, no?
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09-13-2018, 01:27 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Who is this chart meant for?
The really really "slow" people?
With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.
Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?
I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.
Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
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As complicated as "management" may be, I don't believe the concept is fool's Gold. Basically simple, yes.
To put it another way, if we wanted to eradicate an entire Wildlife population probably the quickest way to do it would be to remove all the females as quickly as possible. Predators will do the rest. Why make it sound overly complicated ?
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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09-13-2018, 04:07 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Who is this chart meant for?
The really really "slow" people?
With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.
Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?
I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.
Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
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If you shoot the bull at the top of the chart another will take its place and the cow will still have a calf. Put a (x 100) at the top to clear it up for the simple folks maybe lol
Of course it doesn’t take other factors into account but without the calf being born in the first place, those factors don’t come into play anyway
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09-13-2018, 07:52 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,011
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I see a chart shared by non regulated hunters that ALL non regulated hunters need to learn how to comprehend. Share it with the rest of Canadas non regulated hunters.
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If there world is warming why is there so many new snowflakes?
If we are all equal why are you demanding special treatment?
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09-16-2018, 01:34 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North Sask.
Posts: 358
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When a Province has to issue walleye tags.....it's pretty safe to assume that most sportsman in the province are just pigs ....and trying to educate them on conservation is a waste of time.....
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09-16-2018, 02:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 350 mag
When a Province has to issue walleye tags.....it's pretty safe to assume that most sportsman in the province are just pigs ....and trying to educate them on conservation is a waste of time.....
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No sense in being clueless if you can’t prove eh?
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09-16-2018, 02:59 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Who is this chart meant for?
The really really "slow" people?
With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.
Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?
I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.
Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
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Anywhere I've hunted ungulates the male/female ratio is nowhere even close to 1/1. Unless the bull population is severely depleted, the cows still get serviced, even when they are not bred the first time they often cycle again. Take a look at how many bulls the average beef farmer keeps on hand VS his cows... this is not rocket science.
In my opinion your argument is at least as stupid as however foolish you feel that chart is.
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If the good lord didnt want me to ride a four wheeler with no shirt on, then how come my nipples grow back after every wipeout?
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