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  #181  
Old 06-30-2011, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Now now Sunny, I just fried up a trout last Sunday. First fish I've caught and eaten in a couple years. I'm just reacting to a statement that sounded an awful lot like I hear anti's say... "You don't need to hunt. There are grocery stores". I know the poster didn't mean no taking of game ever. We just need to stop making THAT statement.
yeah we don't need to hunt...how does this statement not make any sense to you? People who live in the middle of the Amazon NEED to hunt, you my friend live in a country that you have food available to you on ever corner, so how can you justify saying that you NEED to do it? You choose to do it because you like to and it provides a good meal now and again...Am i speaking spanish here? There is no anti speaking here, I am a huge advocate for hunting and fishing...
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  #182  
Old 06-30-2011, 03:11 PM
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yeah we don't need to hunt...how does this statement not make any sense to you? People who live in the middle of the Amazon NEED to hunt, you my friend live in a country that you have food available to you on ever corner, so how can you justify saying that you NEED to do it? You choose to do it because you like to and it provides a good meal now and again...Am i speaking spanish here? There is no anti speaking here, I am a huge advocate for hunting and fishing...
You don't get it. I can't explain it to you. The old "agree to disagree".
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  #183  
Old 06-30-2011, 03:13 PM
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thats the most hurtful thing anyone has ever said to me
well I am truly sorry then, You better not get me a warning for "flaming" haha
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  #184  
Old 06-30-2011, 03:15 PM
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You don't get it. I can't explain it to you. The old "agree to disagree".
fair enough!
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  #185  
Old 06-30-2011, 03:38 PM
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TJ..brought up a excellent point in another thread.

Without some sort of harvesting of fish....fishing would not exist as we know it now
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  #186  
Old 06-30-2011, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GustavMahler View Post
Jimboy fished the early days where the total population of Alberta was probably the same as the total amount of anglers now. It was also a time of less ego on the waters and not a very wasteful post-war society. It is our impact that is the detriment not long gone generations.
That right there is how I see it
The influx of people has put huge pressure on all of our resources
I have fished the Bow for 50 years and have seen the changes as well
It is what it is though and requires management and cooperation now
It is still a privlege to get out and play
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  #187  
Old 06-30-2011, 06:02 PM
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so whats the solution...stock more?
i appreciate the human to fish ratio has changed but wheres the limit?
I doubt they stocked back then as much as now
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  #188  
Old 06-30-2011, 06:10 PM
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so whats the solution...stock more?
i appreciate the human to fish ratio has changed but wheres the limit?
I doubt they stocked back then as much as now
They didn't stock at all back then,that I know of
From what I've seen I think they will end up closing the resource and give out licences on a draw system
That seems to be the trend for everything now

Last edited by donabb; 06-30-2011 at 06:15 PM.
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  #189  
Old 06-30-2011, 06:12 PM
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They didn't stock at all back then
From what I've seen I think they will end up closing the resource and give out licences on a draw system
That seems to be the trend for everything now
I believe there was some stocking....the reason for the Browns in the Bow was a aborted stocking mission that had equipment problems
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  #190  
Old 06-30-2011, 06:13 PM
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maybe if the catch limit was set to 1 fish things would change. you would make a wise choice and people would stop taking 5 fish a day.
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  #191  
Old 06-30-2011, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
I believe there was some stocking....the reason for the Browns in the Bow was a aborted stocking mission that had equipment problems
Thats cool how those things turn out
Stocking was a non issue when I was a kid we had some great spots west of town I don't remember getting skunked catch 2 or 3 rainbow half a dozen Rockeys Mom would cook them for supper it wasn't that big a deal
We always had game in the freezer too
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  #192  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Howdy Jimboy.

I believe everyone gets where you are coming from. You had some fabulous fishing back in the good old days when fishermen were few and far between and there was lots of fish to go around and then around again. Back then rules were lax and limits were high and old timers could fill their freezers and eat regulars meals of tasty fish.


We all have those stories about when we were young and the new kids today will tell the same story of sorts in 50 years.

Trouble with stories is the message you are reading is not what most of us are hearing.


We hear...
  1. caught and killed most fish we hooked.
  2. There are not as many fish around place now and now we can get skunked
  3. Transferred sucker minnows all over the Province.
  4. We hated people fishing our spots
  5. We hated the influx of fishermen consuming our fish
  6. We hated having regulations implemented to protect fish stocks in general
  7. We want to just stock and restock rather than have any naturally reproducing viable fisheries.
  8. We loved it when it was cheap back in the 50's...before inflation and time made things cost more.
  9. When we flyfished...it was cool...when others started they were lame.
  10. I can't catch fish on barbless spinners in the river any more.
  11. The petroleum industry has destroyed the glass jar business.
  12. Guys that like to fish just for the relaxation and enjoyment are stupid.
  13. If you ain't killing...you ain't fishing.
  14. People that own land along the river suck cause they stopped us from trespassing with gates and fences.
  15. I don't believe in conservation...it is just a conspiracy of the wealthy elite to restrict my right to kill everything.
  16. All Bow River fishermen are idiots.
  17. If I can't kill a large supper...I ain't fishing.
  18. There was tons of fish in the olden days...lots now...more people fishing...conservation is stupid...don't know if the Bow is stocked...don't fish it anymore...but I can still tell you what is up with that!


Jimboy.

Problem with getting old...besides getting old is trying not to become self absorbed and egocentric. Fishing is not about one person. Fishing is about all sportsmen in Alberta. If the regulations from the 1950's...liberal limits (what was it 10 or 20 trout a day), $2 licence, no anti poaching regulations etc... Can you really look someone in the eye on this forum...take any 12 year old new to fishing and tell him...guarantee ya sonny...the fishing would of been just as good today as it was in the 50's...without all the regulations. The 10,000 X increase in anglers...the 10,000% increase in cost of living over that time...the continued illegal transport of fish...nothing would have negatively impacted the fishery.

Sigh....still Jimboy...all of us that were not fishing in the 50's are envious...not because of the rules we have today...but because you got to experience fishing of such a fine quality before your generation ruined it for the rest of us.

If your generation protected our resource better (can't really fault you because most of the problem was a combination of ignorance, politics and selfish greed) wow...what a fishery we would have today...and the impacts are now hindsight...

IMHO

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA , man you sure are an exageurating story teller .
When my generation ruined it for you , HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA , theres just as many fish now as there was back then , probably more , fish renew themselves by the millions .

Last edited by Jimboy; 07-01-2011 at 01:22 AM.
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  #193  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by flyfishing only 902 View Post
again its this backwoods blinders over the eyes mentality that has our fisheries in the state its in. you obviously have no concept of diversity in nature or an ecosystem and i would like to personally thank your generation for leaving my generation with the total mess you have.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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  #194  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:02 AM
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This thread just wont die.....
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  #195  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I would say it is the cumulative impact of all previous generations combined with the fisheries management direction over that period is what depleted fish stocks. Not Joe blow yesterday. I did a historical review of Alberta fisheries years back. I was amazed what the fishing was like...but the photos of gramps with a rake of 50 bull trout or 100 walleye explained a lot visually. That direction was a mandate to have people catch and kill fish equal or greater than the cost to get them (gas, etc). Times have changed as you noted the population is much greater.

Your theoretical calucation above should include...

Value of fish stocks (ie. there will be a difference between stocked and natural).

Limiting harvest through economic forces (ie. those that want to harvest should pay enough to limit those harvesting to the numbers of harvestable fish).

Economic impact on Alberta's economy

Last time I reviewed the various costs etc...licences did not cover the cost of the recreational activity and management thereof. BC adopted a money in fish and services out system of fisheries management. I believe they have a user group help with developing policies etc. Definitely worth looking at.
Was no walleye back then in Calgary area , no crawling valley , no pine coulee , no clear lake , ect many others , walleye were introduced later.
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  #196  
Old 07-01-2011, 02:11 AM
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Wow its been awhie since theres been a thread that went in 50 diffrent directions, i enjoyed that
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  #197  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:53 AM
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I like turtles
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  #198  
Old 07-01-2011, 07:35 AM
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I like turtles
you just ruined my favorite commercial for me, thanks a lot
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  #199  
Old 07-01-2011, 10:10 AM
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I like turtles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m34RK3HizLY
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  #200  
Old 07-01-2011, 10:12 AM
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I like turtles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0GEMuj4I5Q
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  #201  
Old 07-01-2011, 10:18 AM
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Was no walleye back then in Calgary area , no crawling valley , no pine coulee , no clear lake , ect many others , walleye were introduced later.
you assumption is I did a survey of the Calgary area. I however wrote it was for Alberta.

I saw photos with piles of bull trout, walleye, pike, grayling, cutthroats, sturgeon etc. From border to border to border to border. Your feeling that under intense and increasing pressure that the fish just reproduce faster...is a nice thought...but not scientifically factual.

While you like to deny the obvious...it was clearly your generation that did the damage. Do you deny that your generation did not decimate the sturgeon population in the North Saskatchewan. When early settlers arrived the sturgeon were said to be so thick around the high level bridge that you could of walked across their backs and not gotten wet. Now during spawning time...you can see some under that bridge...but only this generations imagination can picture what it was like years ago.

Plausible deny-ability... that is a good try Jimboy.
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  #202  
Old 07-01-2011, 10:26 AM
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This thread just wont die.....
i know right
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  #203  
Old 07-01-2011, 10:46 AM
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i believe its a fine balance. angling pressure goes up limits go down. but i also believe that protection for fish and the interests of special groups often get tangled together and thats not right either. heck a healthy harvest of bull trout has got to happen one day.
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  #204  
Old 07-01-2011, 02:01 PM
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i believe its a fine balance. angling pressure goes up limits go down. but i also believe that protection for fish and the interests of special groups often get tangled together and thats not right either. heck a healthy harvest of bull trout has got to happen one day.
what special groups?
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  #205  
Old 07-01-2011, 02:50 PM
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So,,, my dad and I pulled out some old regs and whitefish from the sheep were a limit of 15 and possesion 30. The generation/harvest was equal to the current population of fisherfolk,, in otherwords 50,000 fishers got to pull/harvest more than 240,000 fisherfolk today.

As for the Sheep river, I'm sure there are plenty on here who remember the river charcoal grey from bank to bank for miles on end with rockies in september and october. I tell this often to the youngins but they just roll their eyes. WE DEPLETED THE RUNS DUE TO POOR REGULATIONS AND WITHOUT FACTORING IN POPULATION/DENSITY/PRESSURE ON THOSE LAKES AND STREAMS. Please admit that Jimboy, I side with you but the possesion limits were crazy,,,, Minewanka is even crazier,,, (It was Shela ?, through heritage canada that she saved the over harvest limits on a fish that takes 5 years to grow 5 lbs). There is nothing wrong with citing our faults,, we might have not known but we said nothing as a license was $7.00 per year and the regs promoted harvest above and beyond conservation. It's Canada Day, I've been sipping and I apologise for my inarticulation on the matter.

Guilty as charged!
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  #206  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:11 PM
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My question is this, do you go fishing to eat a fish? or do you go fishing to spend time outside with nature? Are you there to fill your freezer for free? Cause it'd be cheaper to save your money on boat gas and rods and reels and just buy a fish. If you live in Calgary or Edmonton or anywhere else in a big city there really just isn't much point in spending all that money just for a tasty meal that could be easily bought from Safeway. THAT BEING SAID i totally understand the urge to eat what you've overpowered, it's just natural, but every time you go fishing? make it a treat and keep one for the night and leave the rest to breed and make more fish for your kids to catch and their kids.
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  #207  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:32 PM
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My question is this, do you go fishing to eat a fish? or do you go fishing to spend time outside with nature? Are you there to fill your freezer for free? Cause it'd be cheaper to save your money on boat gas and rods and reels and just buy a fish. If you live in Calgary or Edmonton or anywhere else in a big city there really just isn't much point in spending all that money just for a tasty meal that could be easily bought from Safeway. THAT BEING SAID i totally understand the urge to eat what you've overpowered, it's just natural, but every time you go fishing? make it a treat and keep one for the night and leave the rest to breed and make more fish for your kids to catch and their kids.
to eat fish and spend time outdoors
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  #208  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:37 PM
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My question is this, do you go fishing to eat a fish? or do you go fishing to spend time outside with nature? Are you there to fill your freezer for free? Cause it'd be cheaper to save your money on boat gas and rods and reels and just buy a fish. If you live in Calgary or Edmonton or anywhere else in a big city there really just isn't much point in spending all that money just for a tasty meal that could be easily bought from Safeway. THAT BEING SAID i totally understand the urge to eat what you've overpowered, it's just natural, but every time you go fishing? make it a treat and keep one for the night and leave the rest to breed and make more fish for your kids to catch and their kids.
And this is still the common thread (even amongst the catchers),, we fish to fish, not catch, the food is not the reason we are there/here/whatever,,, but some of us got to catch literal tons while idling away the day.
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  #209  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:40 PM
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So,,, my dad and I pulled out some old regs and whitefish from the sheep were a limit of 15 and possesion 30. The generation/harvest was equal to the current population of fisherfolk,, in otherwords 50,000 fishers got to pull/harvest more than 240,000 fisherfolk today.

As for the Sheep river, I'm sure there are plenty on here who remember the river charcoal grey from bank to bank for miles on end with rockies in september and october. I tell this often to the youngins but they just roll their eyes. WE DEPLETED THE RUNS DUE TO POOR REGULATIONS AND WITHOUT FACTORING IN POPULATION/DENSITY/PRESSURE ON THOSE LAKES AND STREAMS.
Nice example Gustav. This has been a source of pain in our system for a long while. Rockies (mountain whitefish) have been punished with harsh limits purely as a way of trying to decimate the population...intentionally. F&W for years saw them through biased glasses and poor science as a competitor that ruined trout populations. They have however evolved with native cutts and bulls and in fact are a very important food source for them...necessary for bulls and cutts to grow large.

I don't think we can ever recover from the damage done...but I would love to see a moratorium on retaining whitefish for about 5 years to try and recover their populations.

I also say that the road to proper recovery for many foothills populations is using some form of nutritional supplements to the water until some of the lost biomass recovers also.

Cheers

Sun
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  #210  
Old 07-03-2011, 11:46 PM
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Wow its been awhie since theres been a thread that went in 50 diffrent directions, i enjoyed that
Had a great day today....caught lots of fish, walleye, pike, perch and RBT.....weather was good...bugs not bad....some wind. Found a most excellent perch spot!!!!!!!!!!! not a big perch fan but these were huge and plentiful.
Buddy rescued a baby goose from a mess of disgarded fishing line....shame on the litter bug. Heres hoping you get 100 yards of Suffix wrapped around your neck.....gawd im starting to sound like a super hero tough guy
A@W ran out of onion rings and root beer...duh!!!!
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