Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Fishing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-24-2015, 11:34 PM
fluxcore's Avatar
fluxcore fluxcore is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,731
Default Agressive cops on sylvan

I was out on sylvan today when I noticed a boat approaching then slowed to a crawl about 1000 yards out or so and proceeded to watch us for about 45min, I could see the binos reflect the light a few times so I pulled mine out took a peek and gave a quick wave, instantly they jumped up on plain and came over. These were not conservation officers but RCMP, two gentlemen that asked to see my boating licence, insurence and saftey stuff all of which I had......then the grilling started "hot day out here how many beer do u have on the boat?" And "you should hand them over now so we don't have to go through everything" we laughed but they pushed it again then again. Next they asked about any illegal catches aboard the the boat we said no but the grilling started again and we were warned a co would be contacted to look over any suspicious catches, after we re affirmed we had no fish aboard the boat so.......... We were boarded all my compartments gone through then with a quick "sorry for the inconvenience" they were on their way. Are they allowed to search my boat for no reason ? I was also warned about my small all in one saftey bucket, it's a bailer with some roap, flashlight and a whistle and how in the future it won't be allowed? They were rude, pushy and all around unprofessional.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-24-2015, 11:45 PM
tight line's Avatar
tight line tight line is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,484
Default

Brutal... Bunch of Jerks.. I have the same all in 1 bucket, what is the issue with them?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-25-2015, 05:12 AM
Kokanee9's Avatar
Kokanee9 Kokanee9 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,769
Default

They asked to see your boat insurance?

Does anyone know if they need permission to come on the boat without cause?
__________________
Don't be a Skippy!

http://youtu.be/ZLDzPH-cBhw
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-25-2015, 08:08 AM
fluxcore's Avatar
fluxcore fluxcore is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,731
Default

[QUOTE=Kokanee9;2875487]They asked to see your boat insurance?

Sure did, not a big deal maybe to make sure it's not stolen ?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-25-2015, 08:11 AM
FlyTheory's Avatar
FlyTheory FlyTheory is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,482
Default

Next time invite them on board off the batt. Keeps em happy, and let's them know that you have nothing to hide. That's what I do!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-25-2015, 08:20 AM
fluxcore's Avatar
fluxcore fluxcore is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,731
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyTheory View Post
Next time invite them on board off the batt. Keeps em happy, and let's them know that you have nothing to hide. That's what I do!
Sounds like a plan! Not an issue it was more I wasn't sure about my rights and they did not ask and made it feel like normal routine for them.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-25-2015, 11:26 AM
Kokanee9's Avatar
Kokanee9 Kokanee9 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,769
Default

"They asked to see your boat insurance?"

[QUOTE=fluxcore;2875543]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokanee9 View Post

Sure did, not a big deal maybe to make sure it's not stolen ?

Do you mean boat registration or insurance? Always had the impression that boat insurance was not mandatory. If that has changed, I didn't know.
__________________
Don't be a Skippy!

http://youtu.be/ZLDzPH-cBhw

Last edited by Kokanee9; 06-25-2015 at 11:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-25-2015, 12:23 PM
Nester Nester is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Innisfail
Posts: 2,022
Arrow

Nice to see the RCMP out doing there job at Sylvan.


Terrible to hear that they hurt your feelings.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-26-2015, 08:14 PM
FishHunterPro FishHunterPro is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,247
Default

[QUOTE=fluxcore;2875543]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokanee9 View Post
They asked to see your boat insurance?

Sure did, not a big deal maybe to make sure it's not stolen ?
Do you even need to have boat insurance ? I don't believe you do .
__________________
Never celebrate till you got your knife stuck in it !

Some times you catch the Big fish, some times you get stuck in Chip
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-08-2015, 03:30 PM
fish99's Avatar
fish99 fish99 is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: pigeon lake
Posts: 1,578
Default

[QUOTE=fluxcore;2875543]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokanee9 View Post
They asked to see your boat insurance?

Sure did, not a big deal maybe to make sure it's not stolen ?
do you need flash light was checked last week at pigeon never asked for a flash light ??/















































///

Last edited by fish99; 07-08-2015 at 03:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-25-2015, 06:04 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tight line View Post
Brutal... Bunch of Jerks.. I have the same all in 1 bucket, what is the issue with them?
Don't get a wound up now, just a one sided story, a rant is all. Sure if we all sat in a room with both parties that a better picture would be painted.
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-25-2015, 06:36 AM
Northern Yaker Northern Yaker is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 266
Default

Sounds like they were doing their job. Cops are just dicks by nature.
The real question is if boarding and searching your boat without probable cause is legal.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-25-2015, 07:10 AM
Kokanee9's Avatar
Kokanee9 Kokanee9 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Yaker View Post
....................
The real question is if boarding and searching your boat without probable cause is legal.
I have been checked many times on the water, but never boarded. I have opened compartments if requested and never had a problem.

An aggressive check as outlined in the OP, puts a person on the defensive even before they arrive at the side of your boat.

I would be tempted to deny boarding and not answer any irrelevant questions. Just show whats required, when asked, and that's it.
__________________
Don't be a Skippy!

http://youtu.be/ZLDzPH-cBhw
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-25-2015, 07:13 AM
Duster Duster is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 318
Default

Boats are just like trucks or cars. They can only search it if they have probable cause. Therefore if you werent doing anything illegal than they shouldnt have been alllowed. Did they ask i they could search it?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-25-2015, 08:15 AM
fluxcore's Avatar
fluxcore fluxcore is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,731
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Don't get a wound up now, just a one sided story, a rant is all. Sure if we all sat in a room with both parties that a better picture would be painted.
I've had nothing but great experiences with CO's........I was 100% complient, we weren't drinking, had all the right info but my boat was still borded and searched...... I like that they were on the lake even mentioned right off the bat it was nice to see them out on the water. Just felt they needed to find somthing with or without my cooperation.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-25-2015, 08:18 AM
sanjuanworm sanjuanworm is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 671
Default

They're allowed to board without warrant.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-25-2015, 08:25 AM
Astrocyte Astrocyte is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 325
Default

You could have stumbled across cops that just had enough of other people that day and you got the brunt of their attitude. It happens. There are a lot of boating drinking liars that are out on the waters these days so it is good to see that they are at least out on the waters checking. I believe they can board if they so choose, but just let them do what they must...I mean if there was nothing illegal happening they will find out quickly and be on their way. If you show apprehension or discontent they will not take that lightly and flags will be set off.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-25-2015, 11:12 AM
tight line's Avatar
tight line tight line is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Don't get a wound up now, just a one sided story, a rant is all. Sure if we all sat in a room with both parties that a better picture would be painted.
Lol, ya not really getting wound up at all, i know people in law enforcement. There are different ways to carry out your job, and some enforcement personel definately lack giving mutual respect to someone that has done nothing wrong is all.

Last edited by tight line; 06-25-2015 at 11:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-26-2015, 04:12 PM
ETOWNCANUCK ETOWNCANUCK is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,900
Default

I personally think we need more enforcement on the water.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-26-2015, 06:14 PM
supra22 supra22 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6
Default

I live on a big lake close to Edmonton and watch the parade of "citydiots" every weekend. A lot of people come out and treat the lake with a total lack of respect, littering, drinking and illegally fishing. It me ****es me off so I am all for enforcement of the laws and seeing a police & F&W presence on the water. At the same time though, the RCMP need to conduct themselves in a professional manner while doing so. I have often ran into them and or F&W on my lake and surrounding areas and had no issues, that said though, there are enough of RCMP that arrogant to say least and the way some of them come across where they treat you like you are guilty of something does not sit well with me either. The police need to remember that they are not better than everyone else and that they are public servants.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-08-2015, 01:18 PM
slivers86's Avatar
slivers86 slivers86 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Ab
Posts: 2,835
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxcore View Post
I was out on sylvan today when I noticed a boat approaching then slowed to a crawl about 1000 yards out or so and proceeded to watch us for about 45min, I could see the binos reflect the light a few times so I pulled mine out took a peek and gave a quick wave, instantly they jumped up on plain and came over. These were not conservation officers but RCMP, two gentlemen that asked to see my boating licence, insurence and saftey stuff all of which I had......then the grilling started "hot day out here how many beer do u have on the boat?" And "you should hand them over now so we don't have to go through everything" we laughed but they pushed it again then again. Next they asked about any illegal catches aboard the the boat we said no but the grilling started again and we were warned a co would be contacted to look over any suspicious catches, after we re affirmed we had no fish aboard the boat so.......... We were boarded all my compartments gone through then with a quick "sorry for the inconvenience" they were on their way. Are they allowed to search my boat for no reason ? I was also warned about my small all in one saftey bucket, it's a bailer with some roap, flashlight and a whistle and how in the future it won't be allowed? They were rude, pushy and all around unprofessional.
Simple answer is no. They are not allowed to search your vessel without a warrant or consent. Now if at any time, you said 'okay, or yes' to them suggesting a search, than consent would be implied. Seem like a bunch of *******s. This is why I stick to fishing alpine creeks and rivers. Nobody bothers me out there.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-08-2015, 01:52 PM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slivers86 View Post
Simple answer is no. They are not allowed to search your vessel without a warrant or consent. Now if at any time, you said 'okay, or yes' to them suggesting a search, than consent would be implied. Seem like a bunch of *******s. This is why I stick to fishing alpine creeks and rivers. Nobody bothers me out there.
Better check the Canada Shipping Act again slivers86. They can.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea

Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.

From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

Excuse me while I go puke.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-10-2015, 03:10 AM
slivers86's Avatar
slivers86 slivers86 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Ab
Posts: 2,835
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey View Post
Better check the Canada Shipping Act again slivers86. They can.
Section 8, Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
It's important... its why cops can't go through your car, enter your home, etc without warrant.

CSA seems to indicate you can be boarded for means of vessel inspection, however, it wouldn't give them the right to open any hatches not related to their safety inspection, such as a live well, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-10-2015, 07:35 AM
Astrocyte Astrocyte is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 325
Default

The Canada Shipping Act mentions looking for safety equipment/meeting requirements of the pleasure craft so stuff like anchor, having enough life jackets and so on. It also mentions the person on the vessel must answer the questions. Noted by:

Inspections

(4) In carrying out an inspection, a marine safety inspector or, subject to any limitations set out under subsection 12(2) in their certificate of authorization, a person, classification society or other organization authorized to carry out inspections may
(a) direct any person to answer reasonable questions, provide reasonable assistance or put into operation or cease operating any machinery or equipment being inspected;

So from that it, at least seems, that if an officer says do you have lifejackets on board..."yes I do officer", "okay can you open the bin for me". Then they get to check. I suppose they can word the question in a way that would allow them to open anything as well.

I suppose as well if an individual is getting antsy or argumentative with having the officer on board it could be construed as strange behavior and thus warrants search. I am not sure though.


Officers are covered by more than just the Canada Shipping Act. I looked for Fish and Wildlife officers for example and found this info. It seems officers, of varying types, are covered quite well by Canadian and Provincial Laws.

https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/PROGRA...eOfficers.aspx


This is from the Fisheries Act

I just copied the inspection portion.

POWERS OF FISHERY OFFICERS AND
FISHERY GUARDIANS

Inspection 49. (1) Subject to subsection (2), for the
purpose of ensuring compliance with this Act
and the regulations, a fishery officer or fishery
guardian may enter and inspect any place, including
any premises, vessel or vehicle, in
which the officer or guardian believes on reasonable
grounds there is any work or undertaking
or any fish or other thing in respect of
which this Act or the regulations apply and
may

(a) open any container that the officer or
guardian believes on reasonable grounds
contains any fish or other thing in respect of
which this Act or the regulations apply;

(b) examine any fish or other thing that the
officer or guardian finds and take samples of
it;
(c) conduct any tests or analyses and take
any measurements; and
(d) require any person to produce for examination
or copying any records, books of account
or other documents that the officer or
guardian believes on reasonable grounds
contain information that is relevant to the administration
of this Act or the regulations.

Operation of
data processing
systems and
copying
equipment
(1.1) In carrying out an inspection of a place
under subsection (1), a fishery officer or fishery
guardian may,
(a) use or cause to be used any data processing
system at the place to examine any data
contained in or available to the data processing
system;
(b) reproduce any record or cause it to be reproduced
from the data in the form of a
print-out or other intelligible output and remove
the print-out or other output for examination
or copying; and
(c) use or cause to be used any copying
equipment at the place to make copies of any
record, book of account or other document.

Duty to assist (1.2) The owner or person in charge of a
place that is inspected by a fishery officer or
fishery guardian under subsection (1) and every
person found in the place shall
(a) give the officer or guardian all reasonable
assistance to enable the officer or
guardian to carry out the inspection and exercise
any power conferred by this section; and

Obligation

(b) provide the officer or guardian with any
information relevant to the administration of
this Act or the regulations that the officer or
guardian may reasonably require.

Disposition of
samples
(1.3) A fishery officer or fishery guardian
who takes a sample under paragraph (1)(b) may
dispose of it in any manner that the officer or
guardian considers appropriate.

Warrant required
to enter
dwelling-house

(2) Where any place, premises, vessel or vehicle
referred to in subsection (1) is a dwellinghouse,
a fishery officer or fishery guardian may
not enter that dwelling-house without the consent
of the occupant except under the authority
of a warrant issued under subsection (3).

Authority to
issue warrant
(3) Where on ex parte application a justice
of the peace is satisfied by information on oath
(a) that the conditions for entry described in
subsection (1) exist in relation to a dwellinghouse,
(b) that entry to the dwelling-house is necessary
for any purpose relating to the administration
or enforcement of this Act, and
(c) that entry to the dwelling-house has been
refused or that there are reasonable grounds
for believing that entry thereto will be refused,
the justice of the peace may issue a warrant under
his hand authorizing the fishery officer or
fishery guardian named therein to enter that
dwelling-house subject to such conditions as
may be specified in the warrant.

(4) [Repealed, 1991, c. 1, s. 13]
R.S., 1985, c. F-14, s. 49; R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s.
35; 1991, c. 1, s. 13.

Search 49.1 (1) A fishery officer with a warrant issued
under subsection (2) may enter and search
any place, including any premises, vessel or vehicle,
in which the officer believes on reasonable
grounds there is
(a) any work or undertaking that is being or
has been carried on in contravention of this
Act or the regulations;
(b) any fish or other thing by means of or in
relation to which this Act or the regulations
have been contravened; or
(c) any fish or other thing that will afford
evidence in respect of a contravention of this
Act or the regulations.

Authority to
issue warrant
(2) Where on ex parte application a justice
of the peace is satisfied by information on oath
that there are reasonable grounds to believe that
there is in any place referred to in subsection
(1) any fish or other thing referred to in subsection
(1), the justice may issue a warrant authorizing
the fishery officer named in the warrant
to enter and search the place for the thing subject
to any conditions that may be specified in
the warrant.

Where warrant
not necessary
(3) Notwithstanding subsection (1), a fishery
officer may exercise the power of search referred
to in that subsection without a warrant
issued under subsection (2) if the conditions for
obtaining the warrant exist but by reason of exigent
circumstances it would not be practical to
obtain the warrant.

Exigent
circumstances
(4) For the purposes of subsection (3), exigent
circumstances include circumstances in
which the delay necessary to obtain the warrant
would result in danger to human life or safety
or the loss or destruction of evidence.

Powers during
search
(5) In carrying out a search of a place under
this section, a fishery officer may exercise any
power mentioned in subsection 49(1), (1.1) or
(1.3).
R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 35; 1991, c. 1, s. 14.

Arrest
50. Any fishery officer, fishery guardian or
peace officer may arrest without warrant a person
who that fishery officer, guardian or peace
officer believes, on reasonable grounds, has
committed an offence against this Act or any of
the regulations, or whom he finds committing
or preparing to commit an offence against this
Act or any of the regulations.
R.S., c. F-14, s. 36.

Seizure of
fishing vessel,
etc.
51. A fishery officer or fishery guardian
may seize any fishing vessel, vehicle, fish or
other thing that the officer or guardian believes
on reasonable grounds was obtained by or used
in the commission of an offence under this Act
or will afford evidence of an offence under this
Act, including any fish that the officer or
guardian believes on reasonable grounds
(a) was caught, killed, processed, transported,
purchased, sold or possessed in contravention
of this Act or the regulations; or

Fisheries — June 9, 2015
40
(b) has been intermixed with fish referred to
in paragraph (a).
R.S., 1985, c. F-14, s. 51; 1991, c. 1, s. 15.

Entry by fishery
officer
52. In the discharge of his duties, any fishery
officer, fishery guardian or other person accompanying
him or authorized to such effect by
the fishery officer may enter on and pass
through or over private property without being
liable for trespass.
R.S., c. F-14, s. 39.

Disputes
53. Disputes between persons relating to
fishing limits or claims to fishery stations, or
relating to the position and use of nets and other
fishing apparatus, shall be settled by the local
fishery officer.
R.S., c. F-14, s. 40.

Distances
between
fisheries
54. Fishery officers may determine or prescribe
the distance between each and every
fishery and shall forthwith remove any fishing
apparatus or materials that the owner neglects
or refuses to remove, and the owner is liable for
a contravention of this Act and for the cost of
removing the apparatus and materials and any
damages that may result therefrom.
R.S., c. F-14, s. 41.

Boundaries of
estuary fishing
55. The Minister, or any fishery officer duly
authorized by the Minister, has power to define
the boundaries of tidal waters and estuaries and
to designate what is the mouth of any river,
stream or other water for the purposes of this
Act.

I get confused with legal jargon but from what I understand they can search. What I also understand is they cannot enter the "dwelling-house", so I guess if you have a sailboat or big yacht type deal (I guess?) they cannot enter the living quarters. Again, legal jargon is not my thing I just enjoy researching material so maybe someone else could decipher it further.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-10-2015, 07:48 AM
CK Angler's Avatar
CK Angler CK Angler is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: The Mac
Posts: 458
Default

^^ what you have to pay attention to is the wording on reasonable grounds.

i am by no means an expert in law, but on reasonable grounds IMO means they have to have some type of reason to search your boat, they can't just at random jump in and start going through your compartments, unless you have given consent.

I have been stopped numerous times in Manitoba, Ontario & Alberta, never once have they searched my boat or the boat I was in, only one time they tried and that was here in Alberta. I commented earlier how they tried to trick me into giving consent, I said no and he did not then search my boat.
Usuallly it is standard routine. Do you have a license? Any fish in the live well? Booze? Safety gear? Ect. Just be cool with them if you have nothing to hide, half the time they are decent people and you can have some good conversations and get some fishing info out of them lol
__________________


We take these risks in life, not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping us. Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams. - No Fear

http://youtu.be/3JbTBYk7xII

http://youtu.be/Ujl2kz1M8y8
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-12-2015, 09:13 PM
Smokey Smokey is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxcore View Post
I was out on sylvan today when I noticed a boat approaching then slowed to a crawl about 1000 yards out or so and proceeded to watch us for about 45min, I could see the binos reflect the light a few times so I pulled mine out took a peek and gave a quick wave, instantly they jumped up on plain and came over. These were not conservation officers but RCMP, two gentlemen that asked to see my boating licence, insurence and saftey stuff all of which I had......then the grilling started "hot day out here how many beer do u have on the boat?" And "you should hand them over now so we don't have to go through everything" we laughed but they pushed it again then again. Next they asked about any illegal catches aboard the the boat we said no but the grilling started again and we were warned a co would be contacted to look over any suspicious catches, after we re affirmed we had no fish aboard the boat so.......... We were boarded all my compartments gone through then with a quick "sorry for the inconvenience" they were on their way. Are they allowed to search my boat for no reason ? I was also warned about my small all in one saftey bucket, it's a bailer with some roap, flashlight and a whistle and how in the future it won't be allowed? They were rude, pushy and all around unprofessional.
I would ask them to inform me how they can conduct searches and tell them I will be video taping the ordeal and will issue a formal complaint through my lawyer.nNot sure if would make a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-14-2015, 10:36 PM
Jon 2011 Jon 2011 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 18
Default

RCMP have the same powers as fw officers which allows them to inspect your equipment, vehicle boat etc, so them boarding your boat was within their rights
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.