To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

Originally Posted by LongDraw

The technology is currently available to buy a crossbow that is a bona fide 100 yard weapon. Scope with a ballistic reticle, bipod, shooting a 440 grain arrow at over 400 fps.

And again, not having to draw and hold with muscular power.

Ive already seen these at a local retailer.

Just curious what retailer that was?

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I think that you should do a bit of research. A compound bow is better suited for a 100 yd distance shot. Anyone, whether with a compound bow or a crossbow, would have to be an exceptional archer to do it. Guys that think that they're going to be able to routinely make that kind of shot just because it's a crossbow are in for a rude awakening.

Ask ehntr what he groups at a 100 yards? You dont have a clue buddy.
Look at his last post on the other thread here. Just because you dont think something can be done doent mean it cant mabey your just a poor shot

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So would knowing that there are crossbows with an effective range of 70 yards change your opinion on this topic?

Well I did a little digging elkhunter11 and I've determined from the facts that I found that although an effective range of 70 yds (actually it is more than that) is theoretically correct for crossbows, including my own little 150 #er, it's a little misleading. A bolt or an arrow can travel 1000 yds if shot into the air but it's highly unlikely that you're going to be able to be accurate.

That being said, the killing distance of compound bows and crossbows is allot farther than what a person's ability to be accurate is so the effective range can only be determined by the shooter's own ability.

My 40 yd max practiced distance with my crossbow is about average (30 to 40 yds) and beyond 40 yds requires more skill and ability. For a 70 yds shot you would have to possess an exceptional amount of ability and skill to be on target consistently.

So to answer your question, no, being able to shoot out to 70 yds wouldn't change my opinion. If I wanted to practice out to that distance my crossbow could do that now, as could a compound bow. Would I do it? No, 40 yds is plenty for me and I have less worries about just wounding a deer.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

Ask ehntr what he groups at a 100 yards? You dont have a clue buddy.
Look at his last post on the other thread here. Just because you dont think something can be done doent mean it cant mabey your just a poor shot

I didn't say that it can't be done, I said that you'd have to have exceptional ability to do it consistently. I'm sure that there are people out there that could shoot like that with a compound bow as well. Are they the average everyday bowhunter.........no!

The common theme on here from some less informed posters is that you can pick up a crossbow and start wacking deer at 100 yds. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

[pottymouth]

Dave, unfortunatly people do believe that they are capable of 100 yard shots no problem. 20, 000 members on here , have a chance to learn. But there are still 80,000 hunters that might not know. My clients are some of them , no matter what I tell them, they and there buddies believe they will be shooting their xbows to 100 + yards........... Who are the real losers in all this ??? The wildlife until people realize their mistakes and the landowners who will stressed even more than some are already .

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Dave, unfortunatly people do believe that they are capable of 100 yard shots no problem. 20, 000 members on here , have a chance to learn. But there are still 80,000 hunters that might not know. My clients are some of them , no matter what I tell them, they and there buddies believe they will be shooting their xbows to 100 + yards........... Who are the real losers in all this ??? The wildlife until people realize their mistakes and the landowners who will stressed even more than some are already .

Rank newbies try the same with compounds potty...the end result is an arrow skidding across the dirt. We can't legislate for stupidity or nobody would be hunting. A buddy was talking with a a buddy of his that runs a bow shop not too long ago and his biggest day of sales of compound bows is the day before the opening of bow season. Stupidity knows no bounds. I don't think that's a road you want to go down. Crossbow shooters run the gambit from very experienced to don't have a clue...same as vertical bow hunters.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Dave, unfortunatly people do believe that they are capable of 100 yard shots no problem. 20, 000 members on here , have a chance to learn. But there are still 80,000 hunters that might not know. My clients are some of them , no matter what I tell them, they and there buddies believe they will be shooting their xbows to 100 + yards........... Who are the real losers in all this ??? The wildlife until people realize their mistakes and the landowners who will stressed even more than some are already .

If this thing goes through I hope to hell that there aren't a bunch of inexperienced hunters out there running around wounding animals. If guys have to put arrows in 3 or 4 different deer before they recover one that wouldn't be good. Some of the misconceptions that I'm hearing are a little scary.

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Why do you wear shoes,,, and not just walk around on your bare feet.... Of course there is advantages,,, but like the shoes thing,,, wear em, dont wear em, its up to you, but your still walking on/with a pair of feet.

Edit,,, how can we make this any simpler???

LOL...so how is adding a crossbow to archery season any different than that Analogy? Kinda like shoes with Velcro instead of laces.....lol

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Rank newbies try the same with compounds potty...the end result is an arrow skidding across the dirt. We can't legislate for stupidity or nobody would be hunting. A buddy was talking with a a buddy of his that runs a bow shop not too long ago and his biggest day of sales of compound bows is the day before the opening of bow season. Stupidity knows no bounds. I don't think that's a road you want to go down. Crossbow shooters run the gambit from very experienced to don't have a clue...same as vertical bow hunters.

No agreed TJ, I've seen lots of guys pick up a bow the day before the opener. Except at the shop I shoot at, the owner makes sure to help set up and educate the archer about his new equipement and it's limits and etc. I mean where watching on here through numerous pages guys trying to tell other guys that they aren't a 100 yard weapon and still people don't believe it.

I also know that alot of bow hunters on here that take out newbie's and try to teach them the concepts of archery, to try to limit things like wounding animals. We all know that alot of our landowners start seeing wounded animal everywhere, our permission might end quickly. I am hoping that xbows will follow suit if they get accepted ! ( im hoping , not demanding )

I know it happens with all weapons, but most guys know that there 303 british isn't 1500 yard gun. As do most archers know that there bow isn't a 100 yard bow, unfortunatly these threads show how uninformed some people are, and that 100 yard xbow shows up numerous times......I think I might have a reason to wonder what will be?

Originally Posted by pottymouth

I know it happens with all weapons, but most guys know that there 303 british isn't 1500 yard gun. As do most archers know that there bow isn't a 100 yard bow, unfortunatly these threads show how uninformed some people are, and that 100 yard xbow shows up numerous times......I think I might have a reason to wonder what will be?

Unfortunately Potty, most of the misinformation is coming from vertical bow hunters. It's unfortunate but I also suspect that if crossbows are permitted in archery season that the greatest percentage of crossbow converts will come from within the current ranks of vertical bow hunters. As you say, hopefully they realize the limitations of the weapon. Undoubtedly some won't just as they don't with compounds, rifles and tanks.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Unfortunately Potty, most of the misinformation is coming from vertical bow hunters. It's unfortunate but I also suspect that if crossbows are permitted in archery season that the greatest percentage of crossbow converts will come from within the current ranks of vertical bow hunters. As you say, hopefully they realize the limitations of the weapon. Undoubtedly some won't just as they don't with compounds, rifles and tanks.

I don't agree with most of the info is coming from vertical archers. I think that a misconception has been strung along through the age of time. I have 6 people working for me right now, none hunt , 3 said they shoot as far as a gun, 1 said a football field, and the other 2 said from here to safeway. (which is about 140 yards) that a general public perception.

[madatter]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Apathy (not caring) is not an attribute. Of course you don't care; you don't care to take up a bow, you haven't invested anything, so why support a hunter who has? What is it about "investment" you don't understand? When you invest in something you put something into it in order to get a return. A hunter who uses a bow, invests in that particular form of hunting, and gets a return in the form of additional hunting opportunities spelled out in the regs. You want to take away that return. Why? When all you have to do to get the same return is pick up a stinkin' bow. No, that's not you......you just want to take something away from someone because you don't have it yourself. Me? Your asking what makes me special? Nothing. I'm not special and never indicated I was. You made that up. However, your post is all about "You" ( "I would not care/I'm pretty sure/I would get a tag for something"). That's not the language a team uses.

A team?
Yeah the words I've heard from Packhunter sure do sound like a team!
Give me a break!

[madatter]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

LOL! Well Madatter, ya played the only card ya had buddy, wasnt much of a card but hair on ya I guess. Enjoy your new xbow!

Aren't they like a guided missile now too?
Just lock on,spill the trigger, and forget bout it?
Heard they can shoot 200 yards.....where can I get one of them?

Like I said Packhunter,there's some simple here.....some people dont even know sarcasm when they see it!

[elkhunter11]

For a 70 yds shot you would have to possess an exceptional amount of ability and skill to be on target consistently.

Well reading the info at the link that I posted,the man put six arrows into less than 2" at 100 yards,on the third day that he owned the crossbow.After all,just like a firearm,it's a matter of measuring the distance aiming the crossbow and pulling the trigger after you learn the trajectory.

Of course that bow drives a 420gr bolt at over 400fps,which is in a totally different class than your crossbow.

[Stinky Coyote]

omg, still after all this time not one new argument has happened, my monster xlr8 at over 360 fps ibo and its longer arrows will probably still carry more energy/velocity at 100 yrds than the crossbow mentioned, splitting hairs, whether arrow going 300 or 400 fps it still takes long time to get to 100 yrds in animal movement opportunty.....so anyone shooting either bow at 100 yrds has to be very good at reading all the conditions and judging the animal/situation as good for such an attempt....either weapon

p.s. i've found and posted links to quite a few kills over 100 yrds with compounds....have not seen the same with crossbows yet although i'm sure it is possible, once again its the hardcore that tend to be capable of it and its the hardcore that tend to favor the most versatile tool....the compound, the non-hardcore won't be buying the strongest crossbows possible because the costs....moot

these are still all moot arguments no matter what you believe....why? because a bow is a bow and your still trying argue the differences of one to another.....already covered, one advantage to one is a disadvantage to another and they have about the same amount of advantages/disadvantages over each other as HARVEST STATS FROM EVERYWHERE show.

enough already, if your prejudice then vote no, if your selfish to your general mule/moose tags then vote no, if you don't want to see any extra growth on the bowhunting side of things then vote no, if you don't think a one size fits all bow is a good thing then vote no

if you agree there is a great bow option out there that seriously under-utilized tool for bowhunting in Alberta and its time to get with the times etc. then vote yes

[Roughneck Country]

I am not an archery hunter but I personally have no issue with crossbows. The question however the way it is worded in the survey made me vote no on it as SRD made it sound like if crossbows are allowed that would pretty much guarentee higher kills thus more species on draw as well as longer draw wait times. If they would have just limited the question to would you accept or like to see crossbows used for hunting in AB I would have voted yes.


The way the survey was worded makes me think they don't want to see crossbows used and start listing higher kill rates and longer draw times as well as more species on the draw as a way to swing the vote. My 2 cents!

[leo]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

I am not an archery hunter but I personally have no issue with crossbows. The question however the way it is worded in the survey made me vote no on it as SRD made it sound like if crossbows are allowed that would pretty much guarentee higher kills thus more species on draw as well as longer draw wait times. If they would have just limited the question to would you accept or like to see crossbows used for hunting in AB I would have voted yes.


The way the survey was worded makes me think they don't want to see crossbows used and start listing higher kill rates and longer draw times as well as more species on the draw as a way to swing the vote. My 2 cents!

I'm not saying I disagree with you Roughneck, because I don't know SRD policy. I would think from a revenue stand point that they would make more selling tags than cutting revenue back from implementing more draws? Anyone know what overall hunter success ratio is per tags sold? I'm betting it would surprise alot of hunters because of the low number.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

I am not an archery hunter but I personally have no issue with crossbows. The question however the way it is worded in the survey made me vote no on it as SRD made it sound like if crossbows are allowed that would pretty much guarentee higher kills thus more species on draw as well as longer draw wait times. If they would have just limited the question to would you accept or like to see crossbows used for hunting in AB I would have voted yes.


The way the survey was worded makes me think they don't want to see crossbows used and start listing higher kill rates and longer draw times as well as more species on the draw as a way to swing the vote. My 2 cents!

good point, only more kills because of more hunters.....potentially....at least the first couple years as the masses learn the truth about how much of a 'bow' they really are, your right on how they word it

[packhuntr]

StinkyCoyote, folk against inclusion of these xguns are not being selfish. Its also not prejudice man!! The Xbow simply should not be a utilized weapon in archery hunts, because it is NOT archery equipment. You keep talking the same old stuff, stats, numbers, tech talk around numbers, etc etc. It all makes NO difference, you ARE NOT comparing a horse to a horse, you are comparing a horse to a mule!

[ccmckee]

I voted yes because i feel it gives people more opportunity to hunt. I was quite surprised when i moved here 16 years ago that crossbows were unable to be used in archery season unless you had a handicap.

[Sharp Stick]

So i just got my questionaire and was suprised to see that you can choose to be neutral. I'm sure i read earlier in this thread that it was only yes or no...if that is the case then how can a survey question be changed halfway through the survey???

Can anyone verify if it was only yes and no before and has the question now been changed?? thanks

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

you ARE NOT comparing a horse to a horse, you are comparing a horse to a mule!

guess it depends what glasses you look through, lots of glasses say its a horse, the stuff i keep pointing out is that is has basically same harvest percentage stats as compound and that it is a one size fits all bow which levels the playing field in bowhunting, like rifles have always done in rifle seasons, whats not to love?

be hip, like me, vote yes, you know its the right thing to do

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by The Sheep Reaper

So i just got my questionaire and was suprised to see that you can choose to be neutral. I'm sure i read earlier in this thread that it was only yes or no...if that is the case then how can a survey question be changed halfway through the survey???

Can anyone verify if it was only yes and no before and has the question now been changed?? thanks

i don't think i recall seeing the neutral choice....just memory, which is short, as i only filled mine out couple days ago but pretty sure it was just yes or no....anyone else?

[shooter]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

i don't think i recall seeing the neutral choice....just memory, which is short, as i only filled mine out couple days ago but pretty sure it was just yes or no....anyone else?

Just filled my survey out and there was YES, NO & NEUTRAL as available options.

I'm kinda on the fence with this one. I think a lot of current archery hunters may be the most likely to get into xbows if the opportunity comes around. I don't have much interest in it myself, but I can see where some people would like to try something new. I'm a yes for new opportunities! Not very often that we can expand opportunities as most of the time the rules take something away.

Originally Posted by The Sheep Reaper

So i just got my questionaire and was suprised to see that you can choose to be neutral. I'm sure i read earlier in this thread that it was only yes or no...if that is the case then how can a survey question be changed halfway through the survey???

Can anyone verify if it was only yes and no before and has the question now been changed?? thanks

Go back to post 69....that was the first day the questionaire was sent out...neutral was an option then too. No conspiracy here....

[elkhunter11]

I'm a yes for new opportunities! Not very often that we can expand opportunities as most of the time the rules take something away.

If the result is archery hunts being made into draw seasons,the new opportunity may come at the expense of having the opportunity to hunt less often.You might be able to use a crossbow every two or three years,instead of using a bow every year.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If the result is archery hunts being made into draw seasons,the new opportunity may come at the expense of having the opportunity to hunt less often.You might be able to use a crossbow every two or three years,instead of using a bow every year.

You'd still have plenty of general tag options....just as you do with a rifle. You could hunt every year.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

omg, still after all this time not one new argument has happened, my monster xlr8 at over 360 fps ibo and its longer arrows will probably still carry more energy/velocity at 100 yrds than the crossbow mentioned, splitting hairs, whether arrow going 300 or 400 fps it still takes long time to get to 100 yrds in animal movement opportunty.....so anyone shooting either bow at 100 yrds has to be very good at reading all the conditions and judging the animal/situation as good for such an attempt....either weapon

p.s. i've found and posted links to quite a few kills over 100 yrds with compounds....have not seen the same with crossbows yet although i'm sure it is possible, once again its the hardcore that tend to be capable of it and its the hardcore that tend to favor the most versatile tool....the compound, the non-hardcore won't be buying the strongest crossbows possible because the costs....moot

these are still all moot arguments no matter what you believe....why? because a bow is a bow and your still trying argue the differences of one to another.....already covered, one advantage to one is a disadvantage to another and they have about the same amount of advantages/disadvantages over each other as HARVEST STATS FROM EVERYWHERE show.

enough already, if your prejudice then vote no, if your selfish to your general mule/moose tags then vote no, if you don't want to see any extra growth on the bowhunting side of things then vote no, if you don't think a one size fits all bow is a good thing then vote no

if you agree there is a great bow option out there that seriously under-utilized tool for bowhunting in Alberta and its time to get with the times etc. then vote yes

Different day, same rhetoric from the xbow supporters. Those who don't support xbows are selfish.......give it a rest because that is just so much phooey. The selfish thing is so easily reversed. Maddater for instance doesn't care that archery tags will go to draw or seasons reduced because of increase in the hunter/harvest ratio. He simply doesn't care. He just will not/refuses to hunt with a bow and supports taking away any advantage given to hunters who hunt with a bow, in the regs. Why? Because he doesn't want some hunters getting any more privileges than he gets. Wow. He isn't alone either. Everyone has the same toolbox right now. Everyone can hunt with a bow. If you make a personal choice not to then why should you complain? If we all were given a million bucks, some of us would invest it. Others would blow it. The ones who invest it, get a return. The ones that blow it, end up bankrupt. Thats how I see this playing out. The archery season we now enjoy, will be bankrupted by selfish individuals who have invested nothing. They have nothing to give but their envy, jealousy and bitterness. I'm not saying you personally haven't invested anything stinky cause I know you hunt with a bow. However, I dare to say that most hunters who hunt with a bow regularly aren't in your circle.

I did the survey on Sat night and the options were YES, NO and NEUTRAL. I can't remember what the caveat (warning) said about voting yes was but it was something along the lines that including xbows would have a negative effect on archery draws/seasons. That in itself says that the current allocation would be overbudgeted if xbows were included. That spells bankruptcy. That smells just like how we run our economy. Everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie for themselves. Too many takers, not enough givers.

[Sharp Stick]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Go back to post 69....that was the first day the questionaire was sent out...neutral was an option then too. No conspiracy here....

Sheephunter,

Pretty sure i did not say there was a conspiracy! What i said was "if that is the case then how can a survey question be changed halfway through the survey???"

That is why i asked a question because i thought that earlier in the thread someone had mentioned that it was a yes or no answer when they got their survey and in their opinion they would like to see a nuetral answer as well....guess i was wrong but, i wasnt about to go back and re-read 15 pages to find out. Thats why i asked the question of the people who had alread done the survey.

PS. Thanks for answering the question ...answer on 69...I dont care who you are thats just funny

[elkhunter11]

You'd still have plenty of general tag options....just as you do with a rifle. You could hunt every year.

Not the same species,in the same locations.As it stands,there are archery seasons in many wmus where there are no general seasons for the same species.If those archery seasons are put on a draw,you will no longer be able to hunt those species in those wmus every year,like you can now.