B.C.'s new drunk driving laws declared unconstitutional

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Yes I am saying that. Maybe you should get involved in your community. You will find they are not all out to get you.

As for why there are laws...here is one groups opinion that find civil liberties important. Guess which one falls under drunk driving.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/his...Laws-Exist.htm


Laws exist for five basic reasons, and all of them can be abused.

1. The Harm Principle
Laws created under the Harm Principle are written to protect people from being harmed by others. Laws against violent crime and property crime fall into this category. Without basic Harm Principle laws, a society ultimately degenerates into despotism--the rule of the strong and violent over the weak and nonviolent. Harm Principle laws are essential, and every government on Earth has them.

2. The Parental Principle
In addition to laws intended to discourage people from harming each other, some laws are written to prohibit self-harm. Parental Principle laws include compulsory attendance laws for children, laws against neglect of children and vulnerable adults, and laws banning the possession of certain drugs. Some Parental Principle laws are essential to protect children and vulnerable adults, but even in those cases they can be oppressive if they are not narrowly written and sensibly enforced.

3. The Morality Principle
Some laws are based not strictly on harm or self-harm concerns, but also on promoting the personal morality of the law's authors. These laws are usually, but not always, grounded in religious belief. Historically, most of these laws have something to do with sex--but some European laws against Holocaust denial and other forms of hate speech also appear to be motivated primarily by the Morality Principle.

4. The Donation Principle
All governments have laws granting goods or services of some kind to its citizens. When these laws are used to control behavior, however, they can give some people, groups, or organizations unfair advantages over others. Laws promoting specific religious beliefs, for example, are gifts that governments extend to religious groups in hopes of gaining their support. Laws punishing certain corporate practices are sometimes used to reward corporations that are in the government's good graces, and/or to punish corporations that are not. Some conservatives argue that many social service initiatives are Donation Principle laws intended to buy the support of low-income voters, who tend to vote Democratic.

5. The Statist Principle
The most dangerous laws are those intended to protect the government from harm, or to increase its power for its own sake. Some Statist Principle laws are necessary--laws against treason and espionage, for example, are essential to the stability of government. But Statist Principle laws can also be dangerous--laws restricting criticism of the government, such as flag burning laws that prohibit the desecration of symbols that remind people of the government, can easily lead to a politically oppressive society full of imprisoned dissidents and frightened citizens who are afraid to speak out.

you obviously have alot more faith in government than I do.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

you obviously have alot more faith in government than I do.

That is because I don't shy away from activism. I get involved in the community politics, municipal politics, Provincial politics and Federal Politics. I get out and meet them...understand they are mostly normal people that have a job...and one I would not want for all the tea in china.

People in general are often scared of what they don't know. So get out there...meet them and realize they are not out to get you. They actually work for you. You actually hire them.

[BGSH]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

That is because I don't shy away from activism. I get involved in the community politics, municipal politics, Provincial politics and Federal Politics. I get out and meet them...understand they are mostly normal people that have a job...and one I would not want for all the tea in china.

People in general are often scared of what they don't know. So get out there...meet them and realize they are not out to get you. They actually work for you. You actually hire them.

Sundancefisher, we should not get involved in the Government of Alberta, we can how ever vote on who we think should lead the way as a leader moving forwards, never get involved though, thats what they get the BIG bucks for, and are not doing a very good job either, thats politics for you though, nothing we can do about it, Were still going fly fishing in the summer right

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

That is because I don't shy away from activism. I get involved in the community politics, municipal politics, Provincial politics and Federal Politics. I get out and meet them...understand they are mostly normal people that have a job...and one I would not want for all the tea in china.

People in general are often scared of what they don't know. So get out there...meet them and realize they are not out to get you. They actually work for you. You actually hire them.

I did not vote for Redford, nor did the vast majority of Albertans. In fact there was no election for a new Premiere. There was however an in party vote, ad Redford did not even win there clearly. So for me, the only thing Redford should have done was carried on with what the party had on the table when Stelmak stepped down, and she should have set a date for an election. What she has done instead is mess with things that were not on the table, and not what was wanted by the vast majority of Albertans.

I am very active politically. I have written to Redford on several occasions when she was Justice Minister, and I can tell you that she is not a good person, and is a liar. I trust her as far as I can spit. As Justice Minister, she has directly affected how MEP deals with debtors, and has instructed MEP not to use common sense discretion when dealing with hardship cases. The outcome of this is death and suicide and fatherless children. Because as the economy failed, many people where put out of work, and many of these people were under the thumb of MEP, and could not keep up on their support payments, and since it takes months to get into court, these people ended up getting far behind on their payments, and MEP is too quick to step in with draconian collection actions, and the outcome is these guys lose their license, and with that their ability to get another job, and then their home, and because of this, their access is affected, and then they end up seeing no way to dig out of this, and many chose to end it all.

This is what Redford should be dealing with, instead of making a new law to catch people who are not criminals.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ctd

They should install cameras in every vehilce to moniter distracted drivers..

How about a curfew on driving. Do a study on when the most people have been driving after a drink and ban everyone from driving during those periods of time. That way there should be a 100% reduction in alcohol related accidents.....

OR,

Introduce a new tax that ALL Albertans would have to pay to cover the towing, impounding, taxi and loss of wages for the people that blow between .05 and .08. I'm sure that people not effected by this new legislation would go for it knowing that the streets are safer.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

How about a curfew on driving. Do a study on when the most people have been driving after a drink and ban everyone from driving during those periods of time. That way there should be a 100% reduction in alcohol related accidents.....

OR,

Introduce a new tax that ALL Albertans would have to pay to cover the towing, impounding, taxi and loss of wages for the people that blow between .05 and .08. I'm sure that people not effected by this new legislation would go for it knowing that the streets are safer.

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The magic number

Since 0.08 entered the Criminal Code, a batch of new studies has prompted the Canadian Medical Association to recommend the legal limit be changed to 0.05.

Vision impairment starts at 0.03. Steering accuracy takes a nosedive at 0.04. Braking ability decreases by 30 per cent at 0.03. In on-road tests, ability to do tasks that required divided attention declined at 0.04.

Medical research and lobbying on the part of advocacy groups has pushed other countries to adjust their limits. Canada, the U.S. and the U.K. are the only ones in the Western world that still have a 0.08-per-cent legal limit. Austria, Belgium, France, Germany and Greece have theirs set to 0.05 per cent, while Norway and Sweden’s are at 0.02 per cent.

Facts show...impairment within the range...but you feel you ought to pay to tow their vehicle.

Interesting logic. We will send you the bills.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Facts show...impairment within the range...but you feel you ought to pay to tow their vehicle.

Interesting logic. We will send you the bills.

WHAT!!!! The province is allowing people to drive their cars while impaired!!!!

Well that does it then.....your facts show it in all certainty......the legal limit HAS to be lowered from .08 to .03. No one can argue with the facts........that's just the way that it is.

I figure that if people REALLY support this newly proposed legislation in order to keep our streets safer (and not only because it doesn't affect them) then they wouldn't mind paying the bill for the guy that has his truck impounded when he's not legally impaired. What's illogical about that?

[elkhunter11]

So what is next on the agenda, issuing fines to people that are almost speeding, to reduce accidents caused by excessive speed?

[TreeGuy]

I've seen one check stop since 1995. This "distaction", as Grey Lynx so aptly put it will change nothing. Why can't we work harder to enforce the laws we already have? If 1% of the drunks were taken off of the roads in a calender year I'd be shocked.....

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by BGSH

Sundancefisher, we should not get involved in the Government of Alberta, we can how ever vote on who we think should lead the way as a leader moving forwards, never get involved though, thats what they get the BIG bucks for, and are not doing a very good job either, thats politics for you though, nothing we can do about it, Were still going fly fishing in the summer right

if you don't get involved...you get the government you deserve.

I don't understand why ordinary Canadians do not get involved then sit back and complain when special interest groups ride roughshod over their wishes.

I for one would love to be more active in politics but can't because military members give up some rights while in the service. IOW...I cannot sign a petition or join a political party. If my face showed up on a camera at a government protest...I'd likely find myself in a bit of poop PDQ.

It just kills me to hear people complain that the government isn't doing what they wish when I know that 99.9% of those complainers won't even write a freaking letter... let alone join a party and start attending meetings or show up to give voice at a public forum/discussion.

You know what?

The enemy of democracy isn't Communism, Islam, special interest groups, homosexuals, the NAACP, unions, the occupy movement, big business, the CBC the Liberals, the NDP, the anti-gun lobby or political correctness.

It's poor voter turn-out, apathy, laziness and sitting back expecting someone else to voice your concerns or expecting your elected officials to read your mind every time an issue comes forth that you feel strongly about.
It's being the grey guy and not trying to break from the herd long enough to be seen as a citizen with something important to say and demanding to be heard.

Complain about folks like the Occupy movement but at least they have the gumption to stand up and voice their opinion for everyone to hear...even at the risk of being ridiculed and despised.

Yes... many of them have nothing better to do... because they are basically bums and boobs but there are others that are working full time...have families they support etc but still take the time to hit the street and try to stand for something other than the status quo.

Your rights are like muscles... if you don't exercise em... they atrophy and weaken folks.
If we want to preserve what we have or gain lost ground... you need to get off the couch and take yourself and your rights out for a walk once in a while.

[BGSH]

Originally Posted by pesky672

if you don't get involved...you get the government you deserve.

I don't understand why ordinary Canadians do not get involved then sit back and complain when special interest groups ride roughshod over their wishes.

I for one would love to be more active in politics but can't because military members give up some rights while in the service. IOW...I cannot sign a petition or join a political party. If my face showed up on a camera at a government protest...I'd likely find myself in a bit of poop PDQ.

It just kills me to hear people complain that the government isn't doing what they wish when I know that 99.9% of those complainers won't even write a freaking letter... let alone join a party and start attending meetings or show up to give voice at a public forum/discussion.

You know what?

The enemy of democracy isn't Communism, Islam, special interest groups, homosexuals, the NAACP, unions, the occupy movement, big business, the CBC the Liberals, the NDP, the anti-gun lobby or political correctness.

It's poor voter turn-out, apathy, laziness and sitting back expecting someone else to voice your concerns or expecting your elected officials to read your mind every time an issue comes forth that you feel strongly about.
It's being the grey guy and not trying to break from the herd long enough to be seen as a citizen with something important to say and demanding to be heard.

Complain about folks like the Occupy movement but at least they have the gumption to stand up and voice their opinion for everyone to hear...even at the risk of being ridiculed and despised.

Yes... many of them have nothing better to do... because they are basically bums and boobs but there are others that are working full time...have families they support etc but still take the time to hit the street and try to stand for something other than the status quo.

Your rights are like muscles... if you don't exercise em... they atrophy and weaken folks.
If we want to preserve what we have or gain lost ground... you need to get off the couch and take yourself and your rights out for a walk once in a while.

Of course, but one voice is never heard, and what is the turnout at most elections like 10%?? anyways bottom line drink a bear and fear being arrested and having your car towed even for having a drink, punish the people that high risk offenders. Not the general public minding there own bussiness.

[BGSH]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

That is because I don't shy away from activism. I get involved in the community politics, municipal politics, Provincial politics and Federal Politics. I get out and meet them...understand they are mostly normal people that have a job...and one I would not want for all the tea in china.

People in general are often scared of what they don't know. So get out there...meet them and realize they are not out to get you. They actually work for you. You actually hire them.

i wish the government worked for the everyday citizen of Alberta, but reality is they want money and are greedy folks.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

That is because I don't shy away from activism. I get involved in the community politics, municipal politics, Provincial politics and Federal Politics. I get out and meet them...understand they are mostly normal people that have a job...and one I would not want for all the tea in china.

People in general are often scared of what they don't know. So get out there...meet them and realize they are not out to get you. They actually work for you. You actually hire them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk