Occupy protests

[LongDraw]

Its simple- we are expected, some feel "entitled" to have more stuff than the previous generation. This is how it is supposed to work, the markets demand this with continued growth. Not saying I agree with it, but this is how it is. Our financial system is based perpetual compounded growth.

Look at the accepted standard of living in the 50's and 60's, and compare it to today. Today houses are double the size, multiple vehicles per family, expensive vacations, maybe a second vacation property, lots of toys, etc, etc, etc... Do you think your grandparents lived less of a full life with less "stuff"? The stuff gets, bigger, better, we are told we need more of it to exist. So ya, with a corporations quest to have compounded growth (demanded by shareholders, us!) they produce more crap, and we buy it. Remember- our pension funds, RRSP accounts, TFSA's, etc, hold stock in these companies so it is really self perpetuating.. The 99% is demanding this growth- Ha!

I am far from an economist, but pretty simple to see that on a macro scale this growth and consumption cannot continue the way it has been trending.

As far as these protests go- With the original Occupy Wall Street protests I can see their point to a degree, IMO their protests should be directed towards the Federal Government in the USA as they set the regulation, or lack their of that created the environment for the mass greed of Wall Street to perpetuate. The clowns in Calgary have no clue, and yes I have talked to them.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

I agree.

Oh, and sorry about the 'horse poo' comment, I think I misread you a bit on your post looking back.....

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

so you think you could have a place to live and raise a family and be middle class on $1000 a month???? hahahahahahahahahahahah

you make 1/2 what I do and live comfortably??? where do you live? how long have you lived there? how much was your house? what are your pension/benefits like? how old are you?

I live in calgary
I decided a long time ago not to buy a house, they are a lousy investment to me in alberta.

I live within my means. CASH IS KING.

NO CASH for items means NO ITEM.

I also support my child Alone ON MY INCOME!

HE IS FED(extemely well), HOUSED(lives in a condo with a pool and gym), CLOTHED(has more than plenty) and HAS EXTRA's like movies out, pizza night, bowling, etc. He has a massive movie collection, and 3x as many books. Has a nice bike, and everything else a kid could need.


We vacation (out of country) once per year and 2 out of town fishing trips with hotel for 2 long weekends per year. I Save CASH to allow that to happen.

Like Twisted my car is PAID For. Oh and I paid CASH.
1 tank of gas for me is 45-50 dollars at todays price. I can go 2-3 weeks on a tank of gas. If I go out to Banff then I might need more fuel.
Insurance is under 75 a month.

I have basic cable.


I have lived on 1000 a month and made out just fine.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

I live in calgary
I decided a long time ago not to buy a house, they are a lousy investment to me in alberta.

I live within my means. CASH IS KING.

NO CASH for items means NO ITEM.

I also support my child Alone ON MY INCOME!

HE IS FED(extemely well), HOUSED(lives in a condo with a pool and gym), CLOTHED(has more than plenty) and HAS EXTRA's like movies out, pizza night, bowling, etc. He has a massive movie collection, and 3x as many books. Has a nice bike, and everything else a kid could need.


We vacation (out of country) once per year and 2 out of town fishing trips with hotel for 2 long weekends per year. I Save CASH to allow that to happen.

Like Twisted my car is PAID For. Oh and I paid CASH.
1 tank of gas for me is 45-50 dollars at todays price. I can go 2-3 weeks on a tank of gas. If I go out to Banff then I might need more fuel.
Insurance is under 75 a month.

I have basic cable.


I have lived on 1000 a month and made out just fine.

This seems a bit of a stretch on $1K? What about housing costs?

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

This seems to be a bit of a stretch on $1K?

Didnt say I am doing it today, but I have.

I said I make half of what Pophouse makes and live comfortably!

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

Didnt say I am doing it today, but I have.

I said I make half of what Pophouse makes and live comfortably!

So you make approx 40,000$ ?

paycheques approx $1100.00 ?

so $ 2300 per month ????

rent must be close to $1000 = $1300
gas = $100
food = $ 500
insurance = $100
basic cable/phone/internet = $100

so after these items are paid that leaves you with $500 for misc. expenses = 125$ a week for everything else???? hair cuts, oil changes, pizza nights, movies, bike chains, fishing gear, fishing trips, going to banff, etc????

any savings for retirement? any chance of not having to work one day? any emergency fund if something goes wrong.... id say with this budget above you ARE working poor! welcome to the club.

[Twisted Canuck]

I lived in Mexico for a year Pop, I've seen the working poor. They are the ones that slave in a field picking strawberries, tomatoes and peppers for your consumption, 12 hrs for $7 USD when i lived there. They lived in cardboard sheds and huts with pallet wood framing, and tarp roofs, dirt floors. The sewer was an open trench running between the shacks, or maybe a high end outhouse that was dug 3 feet deep. Their retirement plan was death. With the crop dusters spraying chemicals over their heads as they worked, they could hope for early retirement.

You aren't working poor making $75K a year. You just have bigger expectations. Deal with it.

[Redfrog]

Ken, I just found your sense of humor in one of these ice holes. I'm a little right of Attila the Hun, do you really think I would suggest EI for a bunch of deadbeat losers?


POPhouseman, I can't believe your friend who made 600 grand in 4 years is whining. I'm surprised she would stoop to restaurant work or OMG landscaping.
Hey Wait a minute!!!! I made a pretty good living in those businesses, while my wife stayed home and raised our three kids.

$75000 is working poor? Then I know a lot of slaves who can only hope for that kind of wage.

Life is full of disappointments. When I was a kid I knew exactly what I wanted to do when I grew up. I studied hard about horses, worked for nothing in a stable cleaning stalls for hands on experience, only to find after many years of concentrated focus on my goal that the post office had done away with the Pony Express rider. I was shattered. I ranted and raved and protested and when it got cold and I was hungry, I went and found a job.

Again I studied for years for a career of my choice. All went well till I found out I couldn't get a job as a shepherd in Calgary. I hated the thought of leaving the city and trading my car in for a truck and camper, so I protested the unfairness of it all. I whimpered and whined and someone took me in thinking I was a working poor waif. They said they could only feed me some watered down soup. NOw is that fair? I asked for a scrap of meat,..... nothing.
I even asked if they had an old rabbit they could prepare for me. They laughed and said they had spent all their money catching rabbits at Canmore. Nearly enough to pay a working poor for a year, but those rabbits were not for eating because someone protested the great rabbit harvest.

True story. I read it right here. A guy who owns his home in Calgary and works hard to feed and raise his family and PAYS taxes in Calgary. got in trouble for parking his RV trailer on his own property. Fast forward a couple of months and it is gonna cost Calgary at least 50K to clean up the mess of a bunch of squatters protesting unfairness. Sounds fair to me

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by twisted canuck

I lived in Mexico for a year Pop, I've seen the working poor. They are the ones that slave in a field picking strawberries, tomatoes and peppers for your consumption, 12 hrs for $7 USD when i lived there. They lived in cardboard sheds and huts with pallet wood framing, and tarp roofs, dirt floors. The sewer was an open trench running between the shacks, or maybe a high end outhouse that was dug 3 feet deep. Their retirement plan was death. With the crop dusters spraying chemicals over their heads as they worked, they could hope for early retirement.

You aren't working poor making $75K a year. You just have bigger expectations. Deal with it.

So My expectations are too high because I want a house in a neighbourhood I dont have to fear living in, and I want a decent vehicle to get from point a to point b without breaking down, and because I want to save money for retirement, my expectations are too high?

I have No snowmobile, No jacked up half ton, No quad, No boat, No skidoo, No seadoo,No cabin at the lake........... what are my expectations????

The cost of living has WWWAAAAYYYY out paced wages, the treatment of employees (pension, benefits etc) has been almost completely degraded, I guess working till I die is what I should expect according to you. Why protest when you can just sit back and take it........

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

It seems as though the whole tenting trend will end at some point, however it appears they'll be let back into that park soon.


Regardless, the issues the protesters are bringing attention to are only going to get worse going forward, and the protesting will continue.

Keep your eyes on Europe.

Dominoes.

roll me over romeo

vantheman

They are bringing attention to nothing but laziness, free condoms, vandalizm, murder and drug use....in the demographics that are protesting.

Not really a 60 minutes news worthy story of sacrifice and ideals.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by twisted canuck

I personally think personal accountability is the issue. My family taught me to live within my means. When I didn't, I got into trouble. If a person goes in to personal debt because he saw the government running deficit budgets, I suggest he stop being so easily led and influenced, and learn to manage his finances.

TC I'm sure he would have lots of help managing when he went to the bank to borrow way more than he could pay back "because I saw the gov't doing it".

I doubt the bank would lend him money based on a gov't debt and deficit.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

They are bringing attention to nothing but laziness, free condoms, vandalizm, murder and drug use....in the demographics that are protesting.

Not really a 60 minutes news worthy story of sacrifice and ideals.

depends on who is watching and what their pre concieved notions of the protest are really,.

[Redfrog]

"The cost of living has WWWAAAAYYYY out paced wages, the treatment of employees (pension, benefits etc) has been almost completely degraded, I guess working till I die is what I should expect according to you. Why protest when you can just sit back and take it........ "

Absolutely correct. Look how much better things are in just a few months of 'Occupy"

And you are ENTITLED to all those things you want. Just don't expect me or someone else to pay for them. That's the real world.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

So My expectations are too high because I want a house in a neighbourhood I dont have to fear living in, and I want a decent vehicle to get from point a to point b without breaking down, and because I want to save money for retirement, my expectations are too high?

I have No snowmobile, No jacked up half ton, No quad, No boat, No skidoo, No seadoo,No cabin at the lake........... what are my expectations????
The cost of living has WWWAAAAYYYY out paced wages, the treatment of employees (pension, benefits etc) has been almost completely degraded, I guess working till I die is what I should expect according to you. Why protest when you can just sit back and take it........

Coincidentally I have none of those things either. I've had one vacation in the last five years. And I fully expect to work until I die, whether I financially need to or not. Being productive is part of my upbringing.

Do you not irritate yourself with your self pity at only making a paltry $75K a year? If you were only making $20K a year, I might have a little sympa....who am I kidding? I still wouldn't.

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

So you make approx 40,000$ ?

paycheques approx $1100.00 ?

so $ 2300 per month ????

rent must be close to $1000 = $1300
gas = $100
food = $ 500
insurance = $100
basic cable/phone/internet = $100

so after these items are paid that leaves you with $500 for misc. expenses = 125$ a week for everything else???? hair cuts, oil changes, pizza nights, movies, bike chains, fishing gear, fishing trips, going to banff, etc????

any savings for retirement? any chance of not having to work one day? any emergency fund if something goes wrong.... id say with this budget above you ARE working poor! welcome to the club.

40K would be nice. Not even that much dear.
Gas is 60 for my car
Insurance is under 100.
Rent is 1150.

Add in child care.
and everything else. Yeah I am living comfortably where I am ........ more money would be wonderful for anyone, but guess what I manage to pull it all together and come out with a happy kid who is well fed, properly dressed, and still gets to travel.

At the end of the week I live within my means.
I pay cash and own everything that I have.

It comes down to Wants and NEEDS. The wants cant be more than the Needs and you will be fine!

I dont fear for my life in my neighbourhood.
I might worry cause I have the likes of treeguy and AlbertaDiver on either side of my community.
But I havent heard either of them complain about the neighbourhoods either we are all about 5 minutes apart.

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

I
THE PROTEST IS ABOUT THE "WORKING POOR" (which I am, and I work 50 hours a week and make $75,000+ a year....)

Wow dude, how do you afford Kleenex for your "woo is me" tears....

you should wake up every day and thank God for the life you live and the opportunities you have sqandered

This last year my wife and I travelled to Seirra Leone, from age 8 they work for $3USD a day, typically 12 hours, 7 days a week, life expectancey is 38, they sleep in mud huts, eat once a day if they are lucky and work through yellow fever and malaria (sp?)

It would take two lifetimes to earn what you do in one year, you should be ashamed of making a comment like that

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

Ummmmmmm okay.....

In edmonton $75000 a year IS "working poor"

Good luck paying for a decent house, decent vehicle, gas, insurance, property taxes, utilities and the basics of life. food prices alone have SKYROCKETED in the last 3 years. Add to this trying to save some money so one day when I am old I may not have to work or one day cannot work......... I have no stuff to sell, but thanks for the comment!!!

Sorry had to work before I could reply to this. Let me guess you have a cell phone or two? Luxury not a need. Do you have cable/satellite? Again luxury not a need.

You don't need to live where you do, you choose to. You don't need to drive what you drive, you choose to. Me personally, I make about the same as you do give or take a few bucks. I have put myself in debt to where I live paycheck to paycheck. I did it to myself. I bought the new truck. I bought the new trailer. I have satellite tv, I have the plasma screen, I had a sled (sold it this year), I must be the working poor as well. I guess I should go occupy my town so that someone else will pay for all of it for me.

I have education, I should be making $150,000/yr tax free with a new BMW in the driveway at someone else's expense. Sorry but I don't buy that crap.

You are working poor because of the choices you made. Not ones that corporations or governments made. Sorry but have no sympathies for any of the "protesters"

[Okotokian]

I think we get sidetracked with discussions of exactly what level of income constitutes poor and what our individual experiences have been.

I'm not a big "Occupy" supporter, but if I can take anything from the protests I think it is that many people (particularly in the US) are becoming increasingly disatisfied with a system where it appears that government is quick to jump to requests to help businesses (read shareholders)in terms of bailouts, favourable tax treatment, deregulation, etc. but that it's somehow communist or socialist to help the poor or individual citizens. It leads to questions about whom government is really here to serve. Seems like "trickle-down economics" is becoming somewhat discredited with the increasing gap between rich and poor. Having the US supreme court declare corporations to be "people" and enjoy the same rights (including political donations, etc)doesn't help this perception. Imagine the outcry if the amount spent on bank bailouts was instead spent on public housing. Will never happen in the US. I think that is at the heart of the demonstrations, though most demonstrators can't articulate it. It's a question worth examining, which is not the same as setting up tents and squatting.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I think we get sidetracked with discussions of exactly what level of income constitutes poor and what our individual experiences have been.

I'm not a big "Occupy" supporter, but if I can take anything from the protests I think it is that many people (particularly in the US) are becoming increasingly disatisfied with a system where it appears that government is quick to jump to requests to help businesses (read shareholders)in terms of bailouts, favourable tax treatment, deregulation, etc. but that it's somehow communist or socialist to help the poor or individual citizens. It leads to questions about whom government is really here to serve. Seems like "trickle-down economics" is becoming somewhat discredited with the increasing gap between rich and poor. Having the US supreme court declare corporations to be "people" and enjoy the same rights (including political donations, etc)doesn't help this perception. Imagine the outcry if the amount spent on bank bailouts was instead spent on public housing. Will never happen in the US. I think that is at the heart of the demonstrations, though most demonstrators can't articulate it. It's a question worth examining, which is not the same as setting up tents and squatting.

Of course corp bailouts stink and the bonuses were obscene, but ELECTED officials supported them.
Is it the job of gov't to provide housing for everyone? Everyone below a certain threshold? Where did these people live 30. 40 50 years ago.

I can't remember seeing one homeless person when I was growing up and there was less gov't involvement then than now. How did these underprivileged people survive?

I'm not down on the homeless or working poor, just asking questions.

[chubbdarter]

I thought it was decided we were gonna round up all the pests and invasive species and either nueter or stew them.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Of course corp bailouts stink and the bonuses were obscene, but ELECTED officials supported them.
Is it the job of gov't to provide housing for everyone? Everyone below a certain threshold? Where did these people live 30. 40 50 years ago.

I can't remember seeing one homeless person when I was growing up and there was less gov't involvement then than now. How did these underprivileged people survive?

I'm not down on the homeless or working poor, just asking questions.

All good questions Red, and some people do make awfully bad choices that they have to be responsible for in the end.

As for why there is more homeless, who knows for sure? I see them as being in three groups... One group are addicts, alcohol and drugs. We probably have more of these than we did 40 years ago. Second group are the mentally ill. I was actually in Social Services when they started emptying out institutions and instituting "community-based treatment"... but how do you get mentally ill people to show up for treatment? I think it's been a disaster. Many have been abandoned. Third group are just unemployed. 40 years ago a lot of people had family to depend on... with our transient population many less people have family and friends nearby to lean on. Anyways, those are just my thoughts. Could be completely wrong.

I can also attest that as a former social worker (before I was overcome by corporate greed LOL) the Provincial welfare system was more generous 30 years ago than it is now.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I think we get sidetracked with discussions of exactly what level of income constitutes poor and what our individual experiences have been.

I'm not a big "Occupy" supporter, but if I can take anything from the protests I think it is that many people (particularly in the US) are becoming increasingly disatisfied with a system where it appears that government is quick to jump to requests to help businesses (read shareholders)in terms of bailouts, favourable tax treatment, deregulation, etc. but that it's somehow communist or socialist to help the poor or individual citizens. It leads to questions about whom government is really here to serve. Seems like "trickle-down economics" is becoming somewhat discredited with the increasing gap between rich and poor. Having the US supreme court declare corporations to be "people" and enjoy the same rights (including political donations, etc)doesn't help this perception. Imagine the outcry if the amount spent on bank bailouts was instead spent on public housing. Will never happen in the US. I think that is at the heart of the demonstrations, though most demonstrators can't articulate it. It's a question worth examining, which is not the same as setting up tents and squatting.

corporate influence is the biggest factor, the usa and canada is supposed to be "by the people,for the people" not "by the bought politicans,dictated to the people" the system isn't fair, it never has been really, but the balance has shifted too much and the people are fighting back.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

corporate influence is the biggest factor, the usa and canada is supposed to be "by the people,for the people" not "by the bought politicans,dictated to the people" the system isn't fair, it never has been really, but the balance has shifted too much and the people are fighting back.

The two countries aren't exactly the same. I do support the Canadian restrictions on corporate and union donations. I think that helps a lot. If that means we have to subsidize parties a bit, I support that. If a corporation can hand my MP $100,000 I know he's never going to care about what I want.

[Redfrog]

How are the 'people' fighting back? By camping out in a city park? I'm not seeing the effectiveness of the plan.

[BeeGuy]

OK, $75k is not working poor in Canada, but $30k IS.

For those who think these protests should not be happening:

Do you agree that there are critical issues in western countries with respect to government, finance, and business?

If yes, there are critical issues, how should people address these issues and fight for change.

"Voting" will not be an acceptable answer.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

The two countries aren't exactly the same. I do support the Canadian restrictions on corporate and union donations. I think that helps a lot. If that means we have to subsidize parties a bit, I support that. If a corporation can hand my MP $100,000 I know he's never going to care about what I want.

thue we aren't as bad off as they are when it comes to this.

[TheKi]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

OK, $75k is not working poor in Canada, but $30k IS.

For those who think these protests should not be happening:

Do you agree that there are critical issues in western countries with respect to government, finance, and business?

If yes, there are critical issues, how should people address these issues and fight for change.

"Voting" will not be an acceptable answer.

if you don't like capitalism and the freedom to pick the job and advance to make more money go live in Cuba, nothing personal, but im mad about the city giving the protesters 24/h notice and than not kicking them out when the time was up

[Ken07AOVette]

I don't think that anyone at all minds the legitimate protestor's that are there to make their voice heard; the ones looking to elicit change for the common good, it is the sheep that are there for the party, the drugs, the finger up gfys to elected officials and the rest of their respective countries that ruin it.

If protesting was run more like a strike, they may be taken more seriously. As it is, they are just annoying whiners for the most part, whining about free food not being good enough, etc.

Bring on -40 and remove the illegal tents.

[TheKi]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I don't think that anyone at all minds the legitimate protestor's that are there to make their voice heard; the ones looking to elicit change for the common good

Bring on -40 and remove the illegal tents.

Wating for the -40 weather is cowardly,and whats to stop the protesters from cumming back in spring? The protesters are breaking many bylaws and the mayor is only enforcing some bylaws hoping he wont look bad in the eyes of the 50 some protesters rather than the rest of the population. The park is there for public enjoyment, do you realy think people would want to use it after the protesters defalcated all over it?

[Gust]

Originally Posted by TheKi

Wating for the -40 weather is cowardly,and whats to stop the protesters from cumming back in spring? The protesters are breaking many bylaws and the mayor is only enforcing some bylaws hoping he wont look bad in the eyes of the 50 some protesters rather than the rest of the population. The park is there for public enjoyment, do you realy think people would want to use it after the protesters defalcated all over it?

besides the rink it's possibly the dullest park to enjoy oneself. archer, why do the protesters offend you? not cory but you?