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06-13-2016, 03:14 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzy
Serious question here guys. Let's say there was 10 armed civilians in that club and they opened fire in return. How many innocent people is ok to shoot by accident in a situationlike this?
Untrained regular Joe's with guns doesn't mean anybody is any safer does it? I'd rather not have every yahoo who thinks he's Tackleberry packing heat.
A lot of guys here might be ok might even get a shot off but it's not a movie. I've watched guys who've hunted for decades freeze up seeing a big deer .... imagine if that deer had an AR and was shooting back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
I do agree with this. My opinion is that those who wish to open carry or carry concealed pass a proficiency test first.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
First of all, I'd like to see concealed carry in Canada, but it's Canada...
So, you're carrying a concealed handgun, all and fine.
I have to wonder if someone were to pull a gun and start shooting at you, how many here would remain cool enough to keep their heads and shoot back and actually hit the target? Would there be collateral damage?
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It's all about the training. As Newview stated, a proficiency test should be a must. I've taken numerous pistol, shotgun, and carbine courses in the last few years, and it really did help me a lot in my shooting and ability to assess/respond, albeit nobody was shooting back at me. Having trained next to law enforcement personnel, it was an eye opener, as some were very proficient, and some were shall we say, less than proficient. Even scary. A badge and a blue suit doesn't make a person any more qualified to deal with a life and death situation, they need to train, and civilians have the option to undergo the same type of training. Carrying a handgun comes with a huge responsibility, and those that do should be disciplined enough to not get intoxicated as a matter of principle.
My greatest wonderment is that in the time frame this atrocity covered, that the sheep never made any effort (to my understanding, with current reports) to engage and disarm this madman. Yes, it would be terrifying to do so, but cowering under a table waiting to be killed, hoping a cop will save you, would be just as terrifying.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
Last edited by Twisted Canuck; 06-13-2016 at 03:24 PM.
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06-13-2016, 03:18 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tri777
^^ *Like*
Or
"We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a
few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners
by the actions of a few lunatics"
Funny how that works..
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Not at lot of fun being lumped in with the crazies is it? There are almost 2 billion Muslim in the world I'd think the percentage of crazy Muslims is equal to the percentage of crazy North American gun owners and for that matter crazy Christians.
It's the zealots in any group that represent a problem. They lack rational thought and compassion ...so you get intolerance and violence.
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Take a kid fishing, kids that fish don't grow up to be A-holes.
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06-13-2016, 03:22 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
It's all about the training. As Newview stated, a proficiency test should be a must. I've taken numerous pistol, shotgun, and carbine courses in the last few years, and it really did help me a lot in my shooting and ability to assess/respond, albeit nobody was shooting back at me. Having trained next to law enforcement personnel, it was an eye opener, as some were very proficient, and some were shall we say, less than proficient. Even scary. A badge and a blue suit doesn't make a person any more qualified to deal with a life and death situation, they need to train, and civilians have the option to undergo the same type of training. Carrying a handgun comes with a huge responsibility, and those that do should be disciplined enough not to do so and not get intoxicated as a matter of principle.
My greatest wonderment is that in the time frame this atrocity covered, that the sheep never made any effort (to my understanding, with current reports) to engage and disarm this madman. Yes, it would be terrifying to do so, but cowering under a table waiting to be killed, hoping a cop will save you, would be just as terrifying.
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Have to agree with you on this. I really can't see just hiding under a table waiting to get shot. That said maybe that's how a bunch of guys got killed, I don't know. I hope neither I nor anybody I know ever finds out how scary this would be.
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Take a kid fishing, kids that fish don't grow up to be A-holes.
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06-13-2016, 03:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzy
Not at lot of fun being lumped in with the crazies is it? There are almost 2 billion Muslim in the world I'd think the percentage of crazy Muslims is equal to the percentage of crazy North American gun owners and for that matter crazy Christians.
It's the zealots in any group that represent a problem. They lack rational thought and compassion ...so you get intolerance and violence.
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Oh BS. You don't see thousands of Christians doing the crap that is happening in Iraq and Syria, such as dipping people in acid, etc.
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06-13-2016, 03:34 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On top of sphagetti
Posts: 3,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzy
Not at lot of fun being lumped in with the crazies is it? There are almost 2 billion Muslim in the world I'd think the percentage of crazy Muslims is equal to the percentage of crazy North American gun owners and for that matter crazy Christians.
It's the zealots in any group that represent a problem. They lack rational thought and compassion ...so you get intolerance and violence.
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The percentage of "crazy muslims" is equal to the percentage of "crazy Christians"?? Do you really believe this?
There has been over 28,000 islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11/01.
Jihad Report
Jun 04, 2016 -Jun 10, 2016
Attacks 53
Killed 401
Injured 412
Suicide Blasts 7
Countries 16
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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06-13-2016, 03:42 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiantdi
The percentage of "crazy muslims" is equal to the percentage of "crazy Christians"?? Do you really believe this?
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Crazy Christians? Take a look over in Africa... That's only one example.
And by the way, how many civilians have died in Europe, North Africa, and the middle east at the hands of the west since all this went down? Crazy christians? You betcha.
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06-13-2016, 03:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiantdi
The percentage of "crazy muslims" is equal to the percentage of "crazy Christians"?? Do you really believe this?
There has been over 28,000 islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11/01.
Jihad Report
Jun 04, 2016 -Jun 10, 2016
Attacks 53
Killed 401
Injured 412
Suicide Blasts 7
Countries 16
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I'm not looking to get in a religious debate we know where that's going to end up. I was pointing out that there could be just as many crazy gun owners as there is crazy Muslims. Maybe hate the individual not the group.
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Take a kid fishing, kids that fish don't grow up to be A-holes.
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06-13-2016, 03:55 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: head of Zipper-lip Creek
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Crazy Christians? Take a look over in Africa... That's only one example.
And by the way, how many civilians have died in Europe, North Africa, and the middle east at the hands of the west since all this went down? Crazy christians? You betcha.
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Holy crap, man! Are any of these such atrocities are ever perpetrated in the name of Christianity? No!
You can point out the crusades, if you wish, but that was a response to what? Moorish (read Islamic) occupation of lands for almost 200 years, culminating in the near takeover of Constantinople.
Methinks you should familiarize yourself with the term 'caliphate'. 
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06-13-2016, 03:59 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: head of Zipper-lip Creek
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzy
I'm not looking to get in a religious debate we know where that's going to end up. I was pointing out that there could be just as many crazy gun owners as there is crazy Muslims. Maybe hate the individual not the group.
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There's the problem. These particular individuals are part of a much larger group.
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06-13-2016, 04:00 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by histyle
Holy crap, man! Are any of these such atrocities are ever perpetrated in the name of Christianity? No!
You can point out the crusades, if you wish, but that was a response to what? Moorish (read Islamic) occupation of lands for almost 200 years, culminating in the near takeover of Constantinople.
Methinks you should familiarize yourself with the term 'caliphate'. |
Caliphate... Hrmmm... Isn't that what the west is doing?
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06-13-2016, 04:15 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: head of Zipper-lip Creek
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Caliphate... Hrmmm... Isn't that what the west is doing?
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I can actually, partially agree with that (I say partially because the west isn't doing it in the name of religion - more like big business). I am in no way a fan of George HW Bush's/Bill Clinton's/George W Bush's philosophy of 'nation building'.
I only want people to understand that this is what's being done to us at this time. Pointing a finger at someone, and saying "He started it!" is what you hear on a playground. It does no one any good. We're in the here & now, and a very large wake up call is desperately needed.
As I've said before, this is a war of attrition between two very different cultures, and it started a long, long time ago.
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06-13-2016, 04:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by histyle
I can actually, partially agree with that (I say partially because the west isn't doing it in the name of religion - more like big business). I am in no way a fan of George HW Bush's/Bill Clinton's/George W Bush's philosophy of 'nation building'.
I only want people to understand that this is what's being done to us at this time. Pointing a finger at someone, and saying "He started it!" is what you hear on a playground. It does no one any good. We're in the here & now, and a very large wake up call is desperately needed.
As I've said before, this is a war of attrition between two very different cultures, and it started a long, long time ago.
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Wow, he agrees with something. Thanks.
Since 9/11, some 6600 US military personnel have been killed in this war on terror.
How many people have been killed by the US led war on terror? 1 million? 2? 3 million? It's hard to tell, but it's at least 1.3 million poeple between Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan alone since 2001. Not thousands - millions of people.
The US is a christian country, with Christian leaders.
And when ol GWB said 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'? But no, this isn't a holy war in the slightest 
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06-13-2016, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
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The US is a christian country, with Christian leaders.
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It used to be mostly, but it is a freedom of religion country, by the way it's leader is a muslim.
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06-13-2016, 04:37 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: head of Zipper-lip Creek
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Wow, he agrees with something. Thanks.
Since 9/11, some 6600 US military personnel have been killed in this war on terror.
How many people have been killed by the US led war on terror? 1 million? 2? 3 million? It's hard to tell, but it's at least 1.3 million poeple between Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan alone since 2001. Not thousands - millions of people.
The US is a christian country, with Christian leaders.
And when ol GWB said 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'? But no, this isn't a holy war in the slightest |
So the answer is give up our freedoms (like freedom of speech, religion, and the ability to own firearms), and allow them to catch up?
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06-13-2016, 04:38 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 307
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How did he get an ar-15 into the nightclub?! It's not particularly concealable...reminds me of the Paris concert shooting.
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Guns don't kill people, physics kills people!
-Dr Dick Solomon
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06-13-2016, 04:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat
by the way it's leader is a muslim.
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Yeah, yeah, and we all know about his brother Malik. Obama "claimed" to be a devout christian.
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06-13-2016, 04:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Brento
How did he get an ar-15 into the nightclub?! It's not particularly concealable...reminds me of the Paris concert shooting.
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He didn't at first, an off duty saw him and that's when the crap started.
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06-13-2016, 04:41 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by histyle
So the answer is give up our freedoms (like freedom of speech, religion, and the ability to own firearms), and allow them to catch up?
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We already have given everything up. Harper made sure of that. You think you have rights and freedoms in this country? That's funny.
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06-13-2016, 04:59 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: head of Zipper-lip Creek
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
We already have given everything up. Harper made sure of that. You think you have rights and freedoms in this country? That's funny.
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While that's an interesting opinion, the question wasn't answered. Do you allow them to catch up?
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06-13-2016, 05:03 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,031
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Every time the US dropped a bomb and killed a father that son of the father became a enemy of the US. Best thing to do is straighten out and strengthen own borders and stay away from that part of world.
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06-13-2016, 05:11 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 10,937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by histyle
While that's an interesting opinion, the question wasn't answered. Do you allow them to catch up?
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I did answer it - you don't have any rights. You don't have property rights, nor the rights to own firearms - let alone bear them. You don't have freedom of speech - it's all gone. You didn't mention anything about the holy war?
And catch up to what? Christianity has supposedly evolved from the crusades and bloodshed of the past... Are they catching up to that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supergrit
Every time the US dropped a bomb and killed a father that son of the father became a enemy of the US. Best thing to do is straighten out and strengthen own borders and stay away from that part of world.
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Yep, that's the unfortunate reality...
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06-13-2016, 05:19 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: head of Zipper-lip Creek
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Wow, he agrees with something. Thanks.
Since 9/11, some 6600 US military personnel have been killed in this war on terror.
How many people have been killed by the US led war on terror? 1 million? 2? 3 million? It's hard to tell, but it's at least 1.3 million poeple between Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan alone since 2001. Not thousands - millions of people.
The US is a christian country, with Christian leaders.
And when ol GWB said 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'? But no, this isn't a holy war in the slightest |
In respect to the numbers you've quoted here. Do you allow them to catch up? As stated previously, no fan of either Bush.
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06-13-2016, 05:28 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On top of sphagetti
Posts: 3,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Crazy Christians? Take a look over in Africa... That's only one example.
And by the way, how many civilians have died in Europe, North Africa, and the middle east at the hands of the west since all this went down? Crazy christians? You betcha.
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I agree that people are doing bad things in the name of different religions, but I believe that islam has the market.
The teachings of Christ vs mohamed are quite opposite in many ways. It is easy to see how a muslim could attack a group of innocents. I can't fathom how a Christian can do the same if they are following the teachings of Christ.
Terrorist activities aren't part of any mainstream Christianity, but the same can't be said about islam in the most islamic parts of the world. Even in Orlando, weeks before the gay club attack, an Imam was telling his followers that it's compassionate to kill gays.. I can only imagine what they are preaching in iran, pakistan etc. Actually, I can!
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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06-13-2016, 05:38 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdoctor
Wow, he agrees with something. Thanks.
Since 9/11, some 6600 US military personnel have been killed in this war on terror.
How many people have been killed by the US led war on terror? 1 million? 2? 3 million? It's hard to tell, but it's at least 1.3 million poeple between Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan alone since 2001. Not thousands - millions of people.
The US is a christian country, with Christian leaders.
And when ol GWB said 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'? But no, this isn't a holy war in the slightest |
George W. Bush is no Christian.. He is a good salesman though.
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06-13-2016, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,372
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No such thing as Christian terrorists
Well....... I'm sure many of us have heard of the Lords Resistance Army....
(Remember Kony 2012..)?
I think Wikipedia has some neat stuff on
'Christian Terrorist Organizations'
India
African nations
Lebanon
USA
Wonder why we don't make a stink bout it...?
__________________
"How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live.”
-HDT
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends on the character of the user." T. Roosevelt
"I don't always troll, only on days that end in Y."
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06-13-2016, 06:30 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cowtown
Posts: 806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
Working got a security service is hardly the same as Shomekand security .
Cat |
That emoticon after that spelling!!!
Lol...... I like it!!!! Heheh
Cheers!!!
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06-13-2016, 06:39 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond k
I agree that we should all have the right to be armed but as unpopular as this statement may be on here I can see no logical reason why civilians can walk in and purchase automatic assault weapons. There is no good reason why civilians can purchase assault rifles and when the NRA and the rest of the gun lobbyists get over there fear mongering we may start to see the end of the mass shootings.
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The enemy within......
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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06-13-2016, 06:52 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi
The enemy within......
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? Not sure what your point is although I will assume that you think I am the enemy within.
It is possible to be a gun owner and enthusiast without being a radical paranoid wing nut. Try it you might like it.
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06-13-2016, 07:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West of North South
Posts: 2,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimPS
It appears the alleged shooter was just a G4S security grunt.
His daddy is the one who would have relationships with the "spooks" - apparently a candidate for upcoming Afghan presidential elections and the front man for a number of American business interests.
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Who's your daddy?
He's connected.
http://www.ijreview.com/2016/06/6275...esident-obama/
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06-13-2016, 07:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fargineyesore
Oh BS. You don't see thousands of Christians doing the crap that is happening in Iraq and Syria, such as dipping people in acid, etc.
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x2
Frickin ridiculous comparison....The most crap comment I have read on here in many years 
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