Newell Derby results?????

[Kim473]

Money in, no fish caught = no pay out. More money for the fund raiser. Sounds like a Government deal if you ask me.
Fish can be caught without bait and just imitation lures. JMO.
How many people catch fish with a five-O-D and no bait in the summer months?

[Pikehunter13]

Originally Posted by Kim473

.
How many people catch fish with a five-O-D and no bait in the summer months?

Is that a joke?
Of coarse people catch with the FIVE-O-D. But your trolling and casting. The pike don't have time to look at it, They just smack it with out knowing.

When you're spooning in the hole it goes up and down.*Keep your mind out of the gutter* pike have time to observe the lure and 99% of the time just swim away. If it doesn't smell the proteins near it. It doesn't want it.

[npauls]

Originally Posted by Kim473

Money in, no fish caught = no pay out. More money for the fund raiser. Sounds like a Government deal if you ask me.
Fish can be caught without bait and just imitation lures. JMO.
How many people catch fish with a five-O-D and no bait in the summer months?

Pike are way more aggressive during warm water months.

During the winter their bodies slow right down and most of them won't be interested in chasing anything to get a meal.

They sort of become scavengers for the most part and look for the easiest meals possible without wasting any energy.

Hence the reason why so many big pike are caught during the winter with a dead still bait hanging under a tip up.

[Walnut999]

I find it interesting that people think you need bait to catch fish thru the ice. Do you use bait in the summer for pike ? No you troll plugs or spoons or cast spoons. Same for trout, you fly fish or use spinners or whatever. There are all kinds of immitation smelt hooks on the market. As a matter of fact we got outfished by some 2 weeks ago. We had smelts and they were using plastics and outfished us. Not sur if they sprayed them with WD40 but thats a whole nother thread. HAHA

[anthony5]

Yup it sure goes to show how many fish are caught on lures only in the winter(ice fishing) open water is a completely different story if you know anything about fishing pike

[Walnut999]

anthony5 please do tell the title of the book you wrote on pike fishing so we can all become great pike fisherman.

[pikergolf]

Many, many years ago, when Yellow lake was nothing like the sewer of the SMIRD it is now, there was an old man that hung out there, he could catch fish. He caught more than all around, if you went and asked you would show you his little treasure, for a price you could purchase one from him. All the older men disliked him because he asked a randsom for his lure, but us young fellows flocked to him and gave his price. We all caught fish on it, heck smelts were at best a hit or miss at the safeway, so his sure fire lure saved us many a day. It would be considered primitive now, a 1/4 oz. jig with a treble hook soldered to it adorned, with nothing but chenille and marabou.

[anthony5]

Walnut999

Nobody ever said, myself included, that you can't catch pike on lures through the ice, I can not speak for everyone, but after almost 50 years of giving it a go in three different provinces I can assure you, it is not that easy to do, don't much care who you are. My largest on a lure is 17 lbs, in the last 30 years nothing over 12lbs, my personal experience. No need to write a book. My personal experience, and only mine, tells me that it is not that easy, if you have something to contribute please fess up and it will be that much easier for the rest of us hard water pike fisherpeople.

[Who Da Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Mutter87

Should be no minimum. There's lures out there you can use, Lipless baits, rattle baits, flashing spoons. Livetarget makes a lipless bait that looks exactly like a Herring, dart that around or dead stick it. Jig the banjo Minnow.

Ya, no bait blows, but with the Flasher, I know when a fish is there, and if it doesn't take my current lure, I change it up. Makes you think and work for the fish. I understand not everyone has the $ for flashers and cameras, but they do make it "easier" in a sense to catch fish.

A good array of lures and Jigs will catch big fish just as good as bait.

We'll see how next year goes.

How many derby's you won doing as you say? What's the largest pike you pulled out doing as you say?
Man things some people say just gets a guy going some times

[anthony5]

Anybody???

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by anthony5

Anybody???

Bright coloured bucktails . After all that's why I sware by them . Pound them on the bottom , then using a flasher when a fish comes in slowly jig it ans often on the drop Wham . I have customers who have bought my hooks who say they work when nothing else does , now that's only 4 or 5 people . Plus from what I read no bait allowed but scents would be a perfect place at a time like this , scents are not bait . But now if scents weren't permitted , use something no one else is . Just my opinion .

[fish gunner]

50%of my pike this weekend were on non baited lures. Flying jig and twisters tail combo. Rattlers . Spoons .all caught pike. The larger fish all Came to bait?? So yes it can be done with some insight. Winning a large Derby with a min weight , would take SKILL. oh and a dash of luck. Water clarity could be a factor lol.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Npauls got it right. What works in the summer does not work in the winter. The water is obviously much colder and has less oxygen in it which means that it is critical to pick out the right area for success.

BTW, I have never heard of anyone jigging a non-baited lure in the summer for pike. Any idea why? Because it doesn't work and the Newell Derby proved it. Although the odd fish will be caught this way, it is not common and they are generally on the small side.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by Walnut999

I find it interesting that people think you need bait to catch fish thru the ice. Do you use bait in the summer for pike ? No you troll plugs or spoons or cast spoons. Same for trout, you fly fish or use spinners or whatever. There are all kinds of immitation smelt hooks on the market. As a matter of fact we got outfished by some 2 weeks ago. We had smelts and they were using plastics and outfished us. Not sur if they sprayed them with WD40 but thats a whole nother thread. HAHA

To compare fishing in the summer with fishing in the winter is completely ridiculous... See below. Back to under the bridge you crawled out from....

Originally Posted by npauls

Pike are way more aggressive during warm water months.

During the winter their bodies slow right down and most of them won't be interested in chasing anything to get a meal.

They sort of become scavengers for the most part and look for the easiest meals possible without wasting any energy.

Hence the reason why so many big pike are caught during the winter with a dead still bait hanging under a tip up.

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

Npauls got it right. What works in the summer does not work in the winter. The water is obviously much colder and has less oxygen in it which means that it is critical to pick out the right area for success.

BTW, I have never heard of anyone jigging a non-baited lure in the summer for pike. Any idea why? Because it doesn't work and the Newell Derby proved it. Although the odd fish will be caught this way, it is not common and they are generally on the small side.

[drhook]

This winter I've iced 3 fish over 20 lbs. One with bait, one on a rattling rap and one on a PK flutter spoon. But in the two non-bait catches both times I've used scents.

Use everything you can think of and you can land a big Jack through the ice. I think the stock in Sham Wow sky rocketed when someone said they could catch pike with strips of Sham Wow dipped in power bait liquid.

I only started to derby fish 3 years ago and haven't won a derby yet but will be going to Badger to try my luck, with or without bait. If we don't attend there will be no derbies to go to any longer.

[madatter]

Originally Posted by drhook

This winter I've iced 3 fish over 20 lbs. One with bait, one on a rattling rap and one on a PK flutter spoon. But in the two non-bait catches both times I've used scents.

Use everything you can think of and you can land a big Jack through the ice. I think the stock in Sham Wow sky rocketed when someone said they could catch pike with strips of Sham Wow dipped in power bait liquid.

I only started to derby fish 3 years ago and haven't won a derby yet but will be going to Badger to try my luck, with or without bait. If we don't attend there will be no derbies to go to any longer.

Yes and when the average Joe hears not one keeper was weighed this year he's probably gonna say why waste my time and money
There are after all only so many hard core professional type anglers to go round.
Again it's real hard for charity/fund raiser events to make money if no one shows.
That is the intent of the Newell Derby isn't it?

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by madatter

Again it's real hard for charity/fund raiser events to make money if no one shows.
That is the intent of the Newell Derby isn't it?

You are correct; these derbies are done to raise money.

From what I gather, Newell was down about 300 tickets this year. That's $12,000 direct dollars from ticket sales that was lost. There was obviously more money that was lost due to the spin off dollars not being spent because the people were not there.

If they keep the same rules for 2014, they'll be lucky to sell 100 tickets.

[Mutter87]

Originally Posted by drhook

This winter I've iced 3 fish over 20 lbs. One with bait, one on a rattling rap and one on a PK flutter spoon. But in the two non-bait catches both times I've used scents.

Use everything you can think of and you can land a big Jack through the ice. I think the stock in Sham Wow sky rocketed when someone said they could catch pike with strips of Sham Wow dipped in power bait liquid.

I only started to derby fish 3 years ago and haven't won a derby yet but will be going to Badger to try my luck, with or without bait. If we don't attend there will be no derbies to go to any longer.

You use the Sham Wow strips with the spoons and rattle baits?

I have heard about the Sham Wow trick, even had a Sham wow in my hands, had no scent at home so I put er' down. Don't even know what scent to grab.

[npauls]

Originally Posted by BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES

Bright coloured bucktails . After all that's why I sware by them . Pound them on the bottom , then using a flasher when a fish comes in slowly jig it ans often on the drop Wham . I have customers who have bought my hooks who say they work when nothing else does , now that's only 4 or 5 people . Plus from what I read no bait allowed but scents would be a perfect place at a time like this , scents are not bait . But now if scents weren't permitted , use something no one else is . Just my opinion .

John I am pretty sure scents are considered the same as bait.

If there is a bait ban on a body of water you aren't allowed to use things like gulp. Anything with scent I am pretty sure is considered bait here in Alberta.

[Mutter87]

Originally Posted by BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES

Bright coloured bucktails . After all that's why I sware by them . Pound them on the bottom , then using a flasher when a fish comes in slowly jig it ans often on the drop Wham . I have customers who have bought my hooks who say they work when nothing else does , now that's only 4 or 5 people . Plus from what I read no bait allowed but scents would be a perfect place at a time like this , scents are not bait . But now if scents weren't permitted , use something no one else is . Just my opinion .

Do you pound the bottom every 10 second's or so untill they come, or 6 times a minuted for a few minutes then stop and wait?

[cdkeim]

I have been informed on this thread from a number of obviously very knowledgeable, skillful fisherman, that they have no troubles catching not just numbers, but large sized pike without the use of baits. That is great to hear, BUT the fact remains that 200 fishermen(most just average fishing joes like most of us here, but I am sure a few out of 200 were very good, knowledgeable fishermen as well) caught ZERO scaleable fish.
While we all appreciate the attempt to reduce pressure and mortality, you cannot obviously operate a fishing derby year to year with rules in place like we had for this years Newell Derby.
Derbies create pressure on any given waterbody. That cant be avoided, it is just the nature of the beast. They need to decrease size requirements, if they want to continue with a no bait derby. Otherwise, they need to think up alternate ideas such as going back to the old rules but only holding a derby every 2-3 years to reduce pressure, or where possible, rotate the derby between a few lakes so that one lake doesnt take all the pressure year after year.(Not sure that is feasible in southeastern alberta) Not sure what the answer is, but what they attempted this year did not work as far as creating a sustainable derby.

[drhook]

I've never heard scents are bait but I haven't looked either. (yet... now I'm going to have to see what I can find.. )

My technique is to pound the bottom 3-5 times, a couple quick rises and drops and then slightly jig in the top of the dust if I can for between 30 secs to a minute. If it's on top of a short weed bed I'll drop it in the weeds a bit. If they come in to see what's up, jig in little motions up and sometimes they grab it then if not by the time I raise it a foot and then drop it and to encourage the strike. Then when they (and they do often lol) swim away I quickly grab something else to see if they will come back. My little table on the side of my chair has the little tackle box with 20 different spoons and rapalas ready to go. Tipping with small minnow heads seems to help and not change the action intended by the manufacture.

[drhook]

Originally Posted by npauls

John I am pretty sure scents are considered the same as bait.

If there is a bait ban on a body of water you aren't allowed to use things like gulp. Anything with scent I am pretty sure is considered bait here in Alberta.

You nailed it again. This must be next to impossible to enforce. Page 15 and 21 of the rules and regs...

Bait – means any substance that attracts
fish by scent or flavour and includes a lure to which scent
or flavouring has been added (See “Fishing with Bait” on page 21).

Fishing with Bait
Bait – the definition of bait (see page 15) includes, but is not restricted to:
corn, cheese, marshmallows, meat, maggots, meal worms, earthworms,
wax worms, gammarus shrimp, leeches, terrestrial insects, the larvae,
pupae or adults of aquatic insects (e.g., stonefly, mayfly, caddis fly), bait
fish, parts of fish, fish eggs, scented baits, power baits and all additives
that scent or flavour artificial baits and lures.
Bait Ban – means where bait bans are in effect only unscented lures may
be used. In specific streams, only maggots may be used as bait during certain
times of the year to allow anglers to fish for mountain whitefish with less
impact on trout populations. In specific lakes, only maggots and mealworms
may be used as bait to allow anglers to fish for perch and lake whitefish with
less impact on pike populations

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by Mutter87

Do you pound the bottom every 10 second's or so untill they come, or 6 times a minuted for a few minutes then stop and wait?

Yup get some silt stirred up then wait a few minutes do it again , was with one of my pro staff guys as he shares by them I was sitting there with hareing he caught the fish I didn't .

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by npauls

John I am pretty sure scents are considered the same as bait.

If there is a bait ban on a body of water you aren't allowed to use things like gulp. Anything with scent I am pretty sure is considered bait here in Alberta.

Your right but that's the law wonder if they would of said that for this derby . That's what I'm saying , who knows what I'm saying these days , once I take a pain pill I shouldn't be allowed to post , tonight haven't had one yet . Will be nice when I'm not sitting high as a kite pain free on morphine .

[Mutter87]

Thanks man, I'll try'er out friday at Crawling Valley.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by Mutter87

Thanks man, I'll try'er out friday at Crawling Valley.

Let me know your results .

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

Npauls got it right. What works in the summer does not work in the winter. The water is obviously much colder and has less oxygen in it which means that it is critical to pick out the right area for success.

BTW, I have never heard of anyone jigging a non-baited lure in the summer for pike. Any idea why? Because it doesn't work and the Newell Derby proved it. Although the odd fish will be caught this way, it is not common and they are generally on the small side.

I jig unbaited lures for pike all year . Works fine . On a large lake with depth over 80' the deep water temp does not change , ever . Every lure that works in summer works just as well in winter if it can be used vertically.
The Newell derby proves the folks on the ice on those days could not get a large pike using lures . Many large pike are caught (and lost) on wire worms intended for white fish.
We had pike on camera smashing lures from 10' away , just like summer . Yes there is a learning curve to fishing without bait , learn and success will come. Adapt, overcome, rise above .

[madatter]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

I jig unbaited lures for pike all year . Works fine . On a large lake with depth over 80' the deep water temp does not change , ever . Every lure that works in summer works just as well in winter if it can be used vertically.
The Newell derby proves the folks on the ice on those days could not get a large pike using lures . Many large pike are caught (and lost) on wire worms intended for white fish.
We had pike on camera smashing lures from 10' away , just like summer . Yes there is a learning curve to fishing without bait , learn and success will come. Adapt, overcome, rise above .

You seem to be missing the point about charity fishing derbies....
Average joe could care less about learning to catch pike with lures.
The majority won't care and won't ante up the fee to enter when they can just go there and fish how they want,there goes the charity money.
That they could learn and it can be done means squat to average joe...
Might as well not bother with the derbies....which really wouldn't bother me.

[madatter]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

I jig unbaited lures for pike all year . Works fine . On a large lake with depth over 80' the deep water temp does not change , ever . Every lure that works in summer works just as well in winter if it can be used vertically.
The Newell derby proves the folks on the ice on those days could not get a large pike using lures . Many large pike are caught (and lost) on wire worms intended for white fish.
We had pike on camera smashing lures from 10' away , just like summer . Yes there is a learning curve to fishing without bait , learn and success will come. Adapt, overcome, rise above .

You will be hard pressed to find a lake around here that's 80' deep.
Will agree on one thing tho....I have caught more pike with a jig and twister tail than any other lure,winter or summer....unbaited in summer.