North Saskatchewan Region plan – Bighorn Backcountry Areas - Land use planning - potential closures / reduced access - Y2Y agenda

[normstad]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You can post as many pictures as you want. The people here with common sense know that you are simply sensationalizing, similar to the picture of the dead refugee child on a beach and claiming the west is responsible.

Great ethics by OHV users shown here, right?

[makin tracks]

Originally Posted by normstad

What the heck is a DP??

And no, one must NOT be riding an OHV to get back there. Walking has worked for millions of years. Riding horses for thousand of years. How can our perspective be so skewed that the only way on thinks one can traverse wilderness is by motor?

just exactly how many years have horses been used to access alberta west country???

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by buckbrushoutdoors

just another horse guy that's pizzed off that quads can access a minimal amount of the back country (compared to what atvs are allowed to access) that should be only for him and his horse buddies.

Yup, the way I see it LKILR and his buddy back in the day used to rip the shat out of the back country with their trucks and now that those days are over he figured he'd turn into Mr. Conservationist. Kinda reminds me of another fella from around Waterton who used to write books about his adventures and then when he couldn't do his adventures he turn into conservationist.

[bowshot]

Alberta Parks is planning a 900 stall campground at the Bighorn Dam to accommodate ATV / UTV users at the same time this proposal is being developed. Kiska region wide open off road users from that point.
Should be interesting to see what happens.

Terry

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by normstad

What the heck is a DP??

And no, one must NOT be riding an OHV to get back there. Walking has worked for millions of years. Riding horses for thousand of years. How can our perspective be so skewed that the only way on thinks one can traverse wilderness is by motor?

The way I see it your little pony is doing a lot of damage as well. Every time you cross a creek or ride through the mud hole or around the mud hole. What happens when your pony takes a pizz or a shat in the water or stirs up the water when walking across the creek.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by makin tracks

just exactly how many years have horses been used to access alberta west country???

Probably 350 years or so.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Yup, the way I see it LKILR and his buddy back in the day used to rip the shat out of the back country with their trucks and now that those days are over he figured he'd turn into Mr. Conservationist. Kinda reminds me of another fella from around Waterton who used to write books about his adventures and then when he couldn't do his adventures he turn into conservationist.

I would kind of hope all hunters and anglers are conservationists. At least that is the way it used to be.

Guess these millennials have a different perspective.

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by normstad

Great ethics by OHV users shown here, right?

Is it your contention that that trail was made after that sign was put up? If it is then I want to know this exact location so that your picture can be put into context. I've seen it time and again where SRD closes an area and puts up a sign and it would look just like this, a decades old trail with a new sign.

If you followed the bob creek closure thread from last year then you should also be aware that even though an are gets closed off to the general public it can and will be accessible to " authorized" individuals. One of those being the lease holder that got busted for riding his utv, off trail, on a side hill. It was rather amusing to read the outcry that people were continuing to ride in bob creek and it turned out to be one of these so-called conservationists/ stewards of the land.


Yea, more hyperbol. Nice try though

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by normstad

I would kind of hope all hunters and anglers are conservationists. At least that is the way it used to be.

Guess these millennials have a different perspective.

Nice to see you totally missed my point!! What ever fits your agenda.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by Klondike

Is it your contention that that trail was made after that sign was put up? If it is then I want to know this exact location so that your picture can be put into context. I've seen it time and again where SRD closes an area and puts up a sign and it would look just like this, a decades old trail with a new sign.

If you followed the bob creek closure thread from last year then you should also be aware that even though an are gets closed off to the general public it can and will be accessible to " authorized" individuals. One of those being the lease holder that got busted for riding his utv, off trail, on a side hill. It was rather amusing to read the outcry that people were continuing to ride in bob creek and it turned out to be one of these so-called conservationists/ stewards of the land.


Yea, more hyperbol. Nice try though

So I guess this one is not a problem either then?

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by normstad

So I guess this one is not a problem either then?

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by normstad

So I guess this one is not a problem either then?

Where was this picture taken? Was it inside or outside of a pluz? Is this part of a designated/ established trail? What year was it taken?

This reminds me of a picture the hypocrite from the Banff national petting zoo, Teghem posted showing the "destruction" by Atvs. I actually recognized the location as I had been in the area that summer. The spot was on the trail that went in a northerly direction from four corners on the north side of waiparous creek in the ghost plus. There was a trail that paralleled this low laying muddy area so it was easy enough to bypass it and it would have been easy for srd to close this section but they didn't. Anyone going through this spot were on the designated trail. They weren't breaking any rules. It was being done under the supervision of srd. So right or wrong it was what it was, it was the norm of the day.


But I have to ask. What does a picture,that I'm assuming was taken down south, gleaned from the castle-crown leaf licker site http://ccwc.ab.ca/about/advocacy/have to do with the topic of this thread?

I would refer you back to your 1st picture where you are trying to make it look like everyone is ignoring the sign but you last response screams that you've got nothing

[normstad]

Originally Posted by Klondike

Where was this picture taken? Was it inside or outside of a pluz? Is this part of a designated/ established trail? What year was it taken?

This reminds me of a picture the hypocrite from the Banff national petting zoo, Teghem posted showing the "destruction" by Atvs. I actually recognized the location as I had been in the area that summer. The spot was on the trail that went in a northerly direction from four corners on the north side of waiparous creek in the ghost plus. There was a trail that paralleled this low laying muddy area so it was easy enough to bypass it and it would have been easy for srd to close this section but they didn't. Anyone going through this spot were on the designated trail. They weren't breaking any rules. It was being done under the supervision of srd. So right or wrong it was what it was, it was the norm of the day.


But I have to ask. What does a picture,that I'm assuming was taken down south, gleaned from the castle-crown leaf licker site http://ccwc.ab.ca/about/advocacy/have to do with the topic of this thread?

I would refer you back to your 1st picture where you are trying to make it look like everyone is ignoring the sign but you last response screams that you've got nothing

You may want to refresh your knowledge of the laws that currently exist:

• Wheeled or tracked vehicles are not allowed on beds or shores of watercourses, wetlands or waterbodies

PLUZ or not, that is the law.

Source? http://aep.alberta.ca/recreation-pub...motorized.aspx

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by normstad

You may want to refresh your knowledge of the laws that currently exist:

• Wheeled or tracked vehicles are not allowed on beds or shores of watercourses, wetlands or waterbodies

PLUZ or not, that is the law.

Source? http://aep.alberta.ca/recreation-pub...motorized.aspx

Same source, you should have read further down the page

How should I cross a wetland, creek or river?
You may only cross wetlands, creeks or rivers at bridges or lawful crossings.



Atv’s crossed through flowing water at a flooded section of rig street all day long, all summer long in full view of the CO’s and not a single person got a ticket for doing so. That’s reality.

I’m fully aware of what I’m allowed to do, you on the other hand

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by normstad

You may want to refresh your knowledge of the laws that currently exist:

• Wheeled or tracked vehicles are not allowed on beds or shores of watercourses, wetlands or waterbodies

PLUZ or not, that is the law.

Source? http://aep.alberta.ca/recreation-pub...motorized.aspx

You never answered post #65, how and what kind of damage is your little pony making when crossing a body of water. This right here is the ultimate of hypocrisy

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

You never answered post #65, how and what kind of damage is your little pony making when crossing a body of water. This right here is the ultimate of hypocrisy

You’ve lost it ramlazy. Horse would cause as much damage as a moose or an elk. Same as the poop and peee moose and elk do it in the woods just like a horse and people.Guess we better Round up all the wildlife cause of all the damage they cause. Have another drink!

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Yup, the way I see it LKILR and his buddy back in the day used to rip the shat out of the back country with their trucks and now that those days are over he figured he'd turn into Mr. Conservationist. Kinda reminds me of another fella from around Waterton who used to write books about his adventures and then when he couldn't do his adventures he turn into conservationist.

Your assumption makes you look like an azz. I’ve always used my own two feet to access the back country. I’ve pack out over a dozen bull elk out of 402 on my back. The only time I will use my ATV is after the ground has frozen solid so I don’t leave a footprint. Anyone here that doubts me can try and tag along next year when I go take pictures of the damage caused by ATV use. It’s would be better to see it in person. So I’m inviting ramcrazy ,newview 01 ,Klondike if either one can actull walk more than a mile away from the vehicle

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by LKILR

Your assumption makes you look like an azz. I’ve always used my own two feet to access the back country. I’ve pack out over a dozen bull elk out of 402 on my back. The only time I will use my ATV is after the ground has frozen solid so I don’t leave a footprint. Anyone here that doubts me can try and tag along next year when I go take pictures of the damage caused by ATV use. It’s would be better to see it in person. So I’m inviting ramcrazy and newview 01 if either one can actull walk more than a mile away from the vehicle

For the past few years all of my hunting is on foot although I don’t backpack ten miles to set up a camp. I have yet to run run into an ATV because it is not difficult to find areas where they cannot go. I know firsthand that the “damage” they cause is nowhere near enough to justify banning them in certain areas.
You can say whatever you want, I know there is an underlying agenda behind your assertions.

Seeing as you are from Claresholm, I generally hunt west of you. As I said, ATVs have not been an issue since I started walking. Maybe you need to stop using the ATV trails to get away from them?

I get it. You want them banned in the porkies. Hmm. Good luck.

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by Newview01

For the past few years all of my hunting is on foot although I don’t backpack ten miles to set up a camp. I have yet to run run into an ATV because it is not difficult to find areas where they cannot go. I know firsthand that the “damage” they cause is nowhere near enough to justify banning them in certain areas.
You can say whatever you want, I know there is an underlying agenda behind your assertions.

Seeing as you are from Claresholm, I generally hunt west of you. As I said, ATVs have not been an issue since I started walking. Maybe you need to stop using the ATV trails to get away from them?

I get it. You want them banned in the porkies. Hmm. Good luck.

Again your assumptions. I don’t care if they ban you or not. Makes no difference to me. But what bothers me is people cutting and making new trails to accommodate their ATVs. If you hunt the porkies then you know what I mean. Have you come across the new dirt bike trail they made that cuts through fences ? It’s been years since I have seriously hunted the porkies.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by LKILR

Again your assumptions. I don’t care if they ban you or not. Makes no difference to me. But what bothers me is people cutting and making new trails to accommodate their ATVs. If you hunt the porkies then you know what I mean. Have you come across the new dirt bike trail they made that cuts through fences ? It’s been years since I have seriously hunted the porkies.

Ahh so you are complaining about something that is already illegal?

[makin tracks]

Originally Posted by normstad

Probably 350 years or so.

seems to be a lot less than thousands of years as you have stated, you seem to make up a lot of stuff.

[lead chucker]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

The way I see it your little pony is doing a lot of damage as well. Every time you cross a creek or ride through the mud hole or around the mud hole. What happens when your pony takes a pizz or a shat in the water or stirs up the water when walking across the creek.

No diffent than any other animal back there.they all cross the creeks at some point.and don't say that they bring in evasive species, the elk deer and moose are all back and forth to the hay stacks steady

[normstad]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Ahh so you are complaining about something that is already illegal?

And that is exactly the point. Too many, way too many, use OHVs irresponsibly. Ripping and tearing through an ephemeral wetland because "it's just a mud hole" is a prime example.

IF, and that is the big one, IF there was a different way to curtail the damage the irresponsible drivers make, I would not be as strong in my feelings. However, the only thing I have heard is "more enforcement".

Do you, or anyone else, have a realistic, workable plan that could ensure we do not get the negative impacts that occur now? I'm not being sarcastic, but I have not heard a workable plan from anyone.

Thanks.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by makin tracks

seems to be a lot less than thousands of years as you have stated, you seem to make up a lot of stuff.

Try following along. I said people have been WALKING there for thousands of years. The 350 years refers to HORSEBACK access.

You seem to have a reading problem.

[vinny]

Originally Posted by LKILR

One small example lol. I can show you ruts four feet deep on 45% grade that are caused by dirt bikers. These run directly down to the old man river carrying sediment that is know to be harmful to spawning fish. Do you support this kind of activity?

Yes please, I'd be interested in seeing these ruts. Got any pics? Oh , and proof that it was bikes obviously.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by normstad

And that is exactly the point. Too many, way too many, use OHVs irresponsibly. Ripping and tearing through an ephemeral wetland because "it's just a mud hole" is a prime example.

IF, and that is the big one, IF there was a different way to curtail the damage the irresponsible drivers make, I would not be as strong in my feelings. However, the only thing I have heard is "more enforcement".

Do you, or anyone else, have a realistic, workable plan that could ensure we do not get the negative impacts that occur now? I'm not being sarcastic, but I have not heard a workable plan from anyone.

Thanks.

I don't know what the answer is, but the majority of riders don't cause the damage that you are showing.

Maybe one should be required to have a permit to ride in this area after completing a test so they know the rules? Stiffer fines? Map of designated trails? Use permit money for enforcement?

There is always a way and banning something isn't the answer because of a few rotten apples.

[Joe Black]

cows.jpg

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by normstad

And that is exactly the point. Too many, way too many, use OHVs irresponsibly. Ripping and tearing through an ephemeral wetland because "it's just a mud hole" is a prime example.

IF, and that is the big one, IF there was a different way to curtail the damage the irresponsible drivers make, I would not be as strong in my feelings. However, the only thing I have heard is "more enforcement".

Do you, or anyone else, have a realistic, workable plan that could ensure we do not get the negative impacts that occur now? I'm not being sarcastic, but I have not heard a workable plan from anyone.

Thanks.

I second this! I’ve asked these people several times “what is your plan” and only response is “more enforcement” . Well tell us exactly how you plan on enforcing the misuse? Who will pay for this enforcement? It’s not exactly easy to catch a criminal on a dirt bike in the bush. How does one even identify an individual with a helmet on his head and goggles over the eyes? And if one is caught and convicted what sort of punishment with “reform one”? What is the PLAN??? I would happily support the use of ATVs on crown land if someone could show me a plan that works. Cause right now it’s not working. I Invite all to join me next spring so I can show you all the new trails cut through the bush to accommodate an atv . These trails are only two years old and already significant ruts are there.

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I don't know what the answer is, but the majority of riders don't cause the damage that you are showing.

Maybe one should be required to have a permit to ride in this area after completing a test so they know the rules? Stiffer fines? Map of designated trails? Use permit money for enforcement?

There is always a way and banning something isn't the answer because of a few rotten apples.

YES! Finally one guy comes up with some ideas! Let’s hear more!

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

Attachment 140606

We could use a plan to stop this as well! Not good to see this but it is occurring . One thing I will say though I will not pick a fight with ranchers. After all I think most of us like to eat beef and like to get permission to access their land.