E Collar, Yes or No?

[dwyldethang]

I have a Brittany, 7 month old. He's awesome, I was wondering what thoughts everyone had on e collars. I've got him for hunting Grouse and am afraid with his energy levels I may loose him on a hunt. What do you guys think of the E Collar concept?

[LCCFisherman]

I wasn't considering it, but now since the Bernese story out of Edmonton, I think that dog could have possibly been saved had it had an e-collar and heeled.

[wwbirds]

Used properly can get great results. Used poorly can result in ruining a dog. No substitute for training and you cant train with an e collor only reinforce what the dog already has learned in training.

[elkhunter11]

My dog does not go out in the field without an e-collar. I have used the e-collar to stop my dog from following a rabbit onto a highway, and to keep him from chasing coyotes, and skunks. Although he has had a couple of minor porcupine incidents, I have used the collar to prevent a couple of other incidents. I also use the e-collar to reinforce what the dog has been taught.

[Newf]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Used properly can get great results. Used poorly can result in ruining a dog. No substitute for training and you cant train with an e collor only reinforce what the dog already has learned in training.

^This^

If you do decide to go this route, I highly recommend training with somebody who can instruct you in the proper way to use it, and/or get yourself a quality collar conditioning video.

[angery jonn]

Won't run my dogs without them.

[alacringa]

Originally Posted by dwyldethang

I have a Brittany, 7 month old. He's awesome, I was wondering what thoughts everyone had on e collars. I've got him for hunting Grouse and am afraid with his energy levels I may loose him on a hunt. What do you guys think of the E Collar concept?

First of all, great choice of breed! My Britt will turn 4 this summer, and he had his first really great hunting season this past fall. I started him on the e-collar at about 8 months. As wwbirds mentioned, you want to be careful; but it can be a very useful tool. Schaffer always wears his when we're out (even at the off-leash), but I seldom have to use it anymore.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by alacringa

First of all, great choice of breed! My Britt will turn 4 this summer, and he had his first really great hunting season this past fall. I started him on the e-collar at about 8 months. As wwbirds mentioned, you want to be careful; but it can be a very useful tool. Schaffer always wears his when we're out (even at the off-leash), but I seldom have to use it anymore.

Schaffer is just a lovely, lovely hunting dog. I just think he is tops!

[58thecat]

Put the time in and work with your animal, teach them and develop a relationship, my perspective zapping your dog is an indication you have not spent the time training.

I tell ya I see more people wanting the quick result nowadays which drives me nuts just put the time in and you will be real happy with the dog and vice versa.

People watch my dog when she is with me and voice, hand signals makes her responsive along with our style developed makes us efficient.

Off hunting topic the other day X cross country skiing come across a couple with two dog they had to leash them to prevent chaos, one soft word "here" hand by my side and her muzzle touched my hand as we skied on by...no zapper, choke collar just about 4-5 years of working together now she is extremely tuned In To me as I with her.

[Fish along]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Put the time in and work with your animal, teach them and develop a relationship, my perspective zapping your dog is an indication you have not spent the time training.

I tell ya I see more people wanting the quick result nowadays which drives me nuts just put the time in and you will be real happy with the dog and vice versa.

People watch my dog when she is with me and voice, hand signals makes her responsive along with our style developed makes us efficient.

Off hunting topic the other day X cross country skiing come across a couple with two dog they had to leash them to prevent chaos, one soft word "here" hand by my side and her muzzle touched my hand as we skied on by...no zapper, choke collar just about 4-5 years of working together now she is extremely tuned In To me as I with her.

Excellent post.

[Pixel Shooter]

Very interesting conversation. Goes back to depends on what your expectations are. Agree with wwbirds, best new/old tool in training in past 50 years IF u understand how to use it effectively and NOT use it as a training tool. Believe whole heartedly to properly collar condition prior to using it for a correction. Back in early 80’s i had my first. Came with 3 different stimulation modules u plug in depending what level of stimulation u wanted. One size fits all lol. With today’s technology u can upwards of 30 different stimulation’s which allows you to fine tune. Can’t inagine going back to long long check cord.

My training style is more indirect pressure then direct pressure. If u understand how to use it correctly its hard to beat. Corrrections is all about timing. Without great timing you can easily confuse the dog and make life a little miserable. To all there own and we all have different expectations in what you want out of a dog. As a hunting dog there is that added benefit of having a tool when your dog is in front of a skunk, porcupine, chasing coyotes or crossing roads. Ever have to use it once. Well u will be glad u did cause once the game is on with a dog that has prey drive............. then there is the whole discussion on force fetch lol

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Put the time in and work with your animal, teach them and develop a relationship, my perspective zapping your dog is an indication you have not spent the time training.

I tell ya I see more people wanting the quick result nowadays which drives me nuts just put the time in and you will be real happy with the dog and vice versa.

People watch my dog when she is with me and voice, hand signals makes her responsive along with our style developed makes us efficient.

Off hunting topic the other day X cross country skiing come across a couple with two dog they had to leash them to prevent chaos, one soft word "here" hand by my side and her muzzle touched my hand as we skied on by...no zapper, choke collar just about 4-5 years of working together now she is extremely tuned In To me as I with her.

I thought the same thing until I watched a couple of videos of folks getting the attention of dogs and directing them without verbal command or whistle. They were using tone or vibrate to get the dogs attention and then hand signals to direct them.

Apparently they believe this is a real advantage hunting spooky birds that like to run or flush wild. The dogs sneak in silently for the point or flush. According to these guys birds are running or flushing at 100rds of yards as soon as they hear any dog commands or dog whistles.

[colvert]

I would recommend an e collar with a beeper that can be activated from your remote. It can be used as a locator if your dog isn't too far otherwise you won't hear the beep but your dog will and react at once. I may case with my 7-year old French Brit I use the beeper instead of a whistle because the signal is right next to his ear whereas the whistle is in my mouth far from his ears. The dog is totally surprised by the beep and immediately plays attention to you. I don't use the shock option. My dog doesn't run after rabbits but will after squirrels beside this little problem he is an excellent pointer!
please have a look at
https://dtsystems.com/h2o-1850-plus.html

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by colvert

I would recommend an e collar with a beeper that can be activated from your remote. It can be used as a locator if your dog isn't too far otherwise you won't hear the beep but your dog will and react at once. I may case with my 7-year old French Brit I use the beeper instead of a whistle because the signal is right next to his ear whereas the whistle is in my mouth far from his ears. The dog is totally surprised by the beep and immediately plays attention to you. I don't use the shock option. My dog doesn't run after rabbits but will after squirrels beside this little problem he is an excellent pointer!
please have a look at
https://dtsystems.com/h2o-1850-plus.html

I use the beeper to locate my dog in heavy cover, and also to recall him. One beep gets his attention so he looks over for directions, and holding the button down for a series of beeps, is his recall.

[alacringa]

Originally Posted by sns2

Schaffer is just a lovely, lovely hunting dog. I just think he is tops!

Thanks, sns2. I love him like crazy (and he is a SWEET dog), but I'd never say he's "tops." Lots of work still to do.

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Put the time in and work with your animal, teach them and develop a relationship, my perspective zapping your dog is an indication you have not spent the time training.

When used appropriately, a training collar is a part of proper training. If it is the only thing in a trainer's toolbox, they're doing it wrong. It's not about inflicting pain. It's about a little twinge to remind a dog 300 m away that he still needs to listen. I have tried the collar on myself, and I can't even feel the stimulation that he usually receives.

[PFKGSP]

WW has the right approach. You have to put in the training time first. The collar is only used AFTER you have done your training and your dog understands what is expected. Once you are this far usually a nick or even tone/vibration here and there is all that is required when they are not obeying commands. It is not about lighting the dog up.
Most of the collars today are so adjustable that you can figure out an easy level that your dog can deal with.
Our dogs never leave the truck without one on as well as a tracking collar.

[sask]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Used properly can get great results. Used poorly can result in ruining a dog. No substitute for training and you cant train with an e collor only reinforce what the dog already has learned in training.

Quoted for truth. Probably the best long range correction tool .....when used properly.

It’s an electric collar NOT an electric trainer. Anyone who doesn’t understand what I mean should not have one

[catnthehat]

My father never trained with collars - I think the only ones out then were the "stop bark " types anyway.
He taught me to train my dogs without one and they turned out just fine .
These days it seems almost everyone has one , even my son.
His is used more to find Louie in high weeds ,bullrushes, etc ., with the signal feature when Louie goes on point .
He only used the tone once when some mule deer busted out of some cover.
Cat

[densa44]

As others have said in the "old days" there were well trained dogs and they didn't use collars. I remember running out there stepping on the long check cord so that I could put the dog back on the spot where I got the refusal. I was 50 years younger then.

I see the collar as a safety feature for the dog as others have said; if used properly it gives the handler a strong recall that can be used in emergencies.

It has other uses too as have been described. The buzz feature versus a whistle when hunting is great. I hunt with multiple dogs and I can call them individually without making a sound.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I thought the same thing until I watched a couple of videos of folks getting the attention of dogs and directing them without verbal command or whistle. They were using tone or vibrate to get the dogs attention and then hand signals to direct them.

Apparently they believe this is a real advantage hunting spooky birds that like to run or flush wild. The dogs sneak in silently for the point or flush. According to these guys birds are running or flushing at 100rds of yards as soon as they hear any dog commands or dog whistles.

My partner and I hunt completely silent. The pointer which I hunt with needs no cues and stays in range. The Springer my partner hunts, is cued with the adio on her collar. It is a thing of beauty, moving through the cover silently.

[theycallmeNoah]

Originally Posted by alacringa

First of all, great choice of breed! My Britt will turn 4 this summer, and he had his first really great hunting season this past fall. I started him on the e-collar at about 8 months. As wwbirds mentioned, you want to be careful; but it can be a very useful tool. Schaffer always wears his when we're out (even at the off-leash), but I seldom have to use it anymore.

Same with our Britts

[Iron Brew]

I never used to believe in the collar, till I adopted an adult male GWP. Until he decided we were "his" people, commands were very optional. Exercising him sufficiently on a leash was not an option. We desperately needed him to recall. We got the collar on the advice of a good trainer. Used the vibrate mode, then the nick. Only took a couple before he got the idea. Probably saved his life with traffic too.

Since then, he has decided we are "his" people, and is a super, super dog and companion. He absolutely LOVES his collar going on, as he knows that means he is going to be doing something fun.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I thought the same thing until I watched a couple of videos of folks getting the attention of dogs and directing them without verbal command or whistle. They were using tone or vibrate to get the dogs attention and then hand signals to direct them.

Apparently they believe this is a real advantage hunting spooky birds that like to run or flush wild. The dogs sneak in silently for the point or flush. According to these guys birds are running or flushing at 100rds of yards as soon as they hear any dog commands or dog whistles.

True birds will key into noise and bolt before you even get on them....my girl looks back and we use hand signals, she just stops, looks back at me and I can direct her....funny how this game to happen was throwing a tennis ball out on a lake with some chop, she would swim out loose sight of it and I would point and use my voice, eventually I stopped using my voice and only pointed, she then used this in the field....very smart I would say.

[sns2]

Wild birds sure can tune into noise. I worked my dog on the same covey of huns for months. They got to the point that as soon as they heard my whistle, it was head for the hills time.

[Dave P]

I'm not anywhere ready to take my dog hunting as we are still working away at basic obedience, but I do like to think ahead of things I will want for him (mainly for budget reasons as I like to pay cash). What is everyone running for GPS collars these days?

And maybe this is a dumb questions, but why are there no collars that are gps and beeping? Or am I missing something?

I am not really interested in the "training" collars, but more for tracking.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dave P

I'm not anywhere ready to take my dog hunting as we are still working away at basic obedience, but I do like to think ahead of things I will want for him (mainly for budget reasons as I like to pay cash). What is everyone running for GPS collars these days?

And maybe this is a dumb questions, but why are there no collars that are gps and beeping? Or am I missing something?

I am not really interested in the "training" collars, but more for tracking.

I use a Dogtra 2500, and after two years, no issues. The unit holds a charge for a long time, even in the cold, and the collar and remote are very durable. I would have a Garmin GPS unit, if they were legal to be sold and used in Canada.

[aulrich]

e-collars are generally pretty easy to use, the single biggest mistake is not putting it on right. Once you get it on right then you can get the basic settings right. Power setting do depend on the dog but with mine with yard work it took hardly nothing (I know because I shocked myself to figure out when my dog should feel the correction ) though there were a couple of times in his hard headed youth it took full power to turn him when he basically stepped on deer and got into chase mode.

I took mine through the Hickox e-collar program it worked very well.

https://www.gundogsupply.com/gehitrpododv.html


Considering some of the old school training could include rolling a dog in a barrel with deer hide or #8 shot when they break, comparatively speaking the modern e-collar used right is the picture of humane training.

Nothing makes the "good ol' days" better than a bad memory

Heck you can ruin a pointing dog with a leash , how many times have we read “my dog won’t range away from me”

[LCCFisherman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I use a Dogtra 2500, and after two years, no issues. The unit holds a charge for a long time, even in the cold, and the collar and remote are very durable. I would have a Garmin GPS unit, if they were legal to be sold and used in Canada.

Should look at the Dogtra Pathfinder.. amazing collar with gps tracking and efence technology. Amazing stuff. Picked one up for my Toller.

[Trochu]

I had one. Loved it, did the beep before the zap and am not sure if I ever needed to zap again. I tried it on myself, on the lower settings it doesn't hurt, could barely feel it if I recall. Once you get up to 3 or 4 you can definitely feel it.

[dfrobert]

I think of mine as a 1/4 mile long leash. Couldn't imagine running a bird dog without one. Can call dog silently, make corrections, enforce and build on training, etc. Tri-tronics has served me well.