Masks Mandatory In ALL Indoor Public Places In Edmonton

[bessiedog]

And zero comment on the cherries....!



Geebus....

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by BackPackHunter

I love waiting n line at a store n a cashier with a mask will say I can help you here
No thanks , I’ll wait for someone not stupid !
Don’t wanna catch your fear !


Let the Karen’s flame away......


Listen to her ..... listen to her !

Classy. Your mother must be proud.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Your probably as good or better with the Google fu as I am so your capable of looking into any of the info I reference yourself. I use my phone to post and am not too techy so posting links is a pia.

Odd....I'm 66, so no techie either....and most of what I post here is on the phone, yet somehow I manage to post links...not make excuses.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So you go from comparing deaths to infection rates? You can only compare infection rates if the rate of testing in the same. If a country tests a higher percentage of the population, they will report more infections.

Sounds like you are a believer in Trumps load about "we test more so we find it" or whatever he's spewing. Fact is the US is the worst in the world and they don't look like they can get out of that position for a few months.

[Nikanit]

Originally Posted by sk270

duplicate edited out again

Sorry, my computer was hanging up

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Sounds like you are a believer in Trumps load about "we test more so we find it" or whatever he's spewing. Fact is the US is the worst in the world and they don't look like they can get out of that position for a few months.

Does the USA test more than other countries? Do they test less? Do you have any data to establish this? Unless you know if they test more or less, you don't know if they find more cases because they test more.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Does the USA test more than other countries? Do they test less? Do you have any data to establish this? Unless you know if they test more or less, you don't know if they find more cases because they test more.

According to the numbers posted on worldometer there are 18 countries that test more per capita than the US.......

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Scott h

According to the numbers posted on worldometer there are 18 countries that test more per capita than the US.......

This data states that only two countries test more than the USA, and Canada tests far fewer people by population.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ies-worldwide/

[Pathfinder76]

[sk270]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Trolls should not cast the first troll stone. Quit giving us saskboys a bad name. You started the insults and trolling by basically saying that anyone who disagrees with you is dumb or weak-minded.

Please refer to me 5 scientific journals that the government has used to make their decisions. Nevermind what I have read.

Nobody else seemed to have a hard time understanding what I meant by statistician. You knew what I meant too, but tried to turn this into a grammar lesson over any true debate.

I was confused by your accusation that I was trolling you. And somewhat upset that I might have been deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.

I went back in the thread and I think your animosity started to develop when I stated that "I agree that our society is weak-minded. This is clearly shown by the pervasive mistrust of science and, to a lesser extent, government."

You argued based on my choice of words and I said I should have split things up better. If I had done so I would have said that "a mistrust of science is a sign of weak-mindedness. The categorical mistrust of government is also a sign of weak-mindedness."

Is that better?

Upon reflection, I realize I could have chosen a better adjective since "weak-minded" can be taken a number of ways. In one word, I was trying to say that people who do not accept science are rejecting the best means we have of determining objective reality through investigation and logical reasoning.

At no time did I make personal comments about you.

Your descriptions of science in action do not appear to reflect the way scientists actually work. That is not a personal insult, just a statement of fact. If you were to say that I don't know how to do calculus or weld, I would not feel insulted since that is true.

You accuse me of saying that people who do not agree with me are dumb. That is absolutely not true. At no time did I use that adjective or anything like it. I have no idea how you reached this conclusion.

I think that we might be better able to have a reasonable exchange of ideas if you were to consult more of the primary sources regarding the Covid-19 pandemic such as means of preventing infection.

Contrary to my previous statement, I will be happy to discuss this further if we can be more objective in our posts. Hope to hear from you in a more positive vein.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

And zero comment on the cherries....!



Geebus....

Hahahahha. My apologies sir. I love moonshine cherries.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by sk270

I was confused by your accusation that I was trolling you. And somewhat upset that I might have been deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.

I went back in the thread and I think your animosity started to develop when I stated that "I agree that our society is weak-minded. This is clearly shown by the pervasive mistrust of science and, to a lesser extent, government."

You argued based on my choice of words and I said I should have split things up better. If I had done so I would have said that "a mistrust of science is a sign of weak-mindedness. The categorical mistrust of government is also a sign of weak-mindedness."

Is that better?

Upon reflection, I realize I could have chosen a better adjective since "weak-minded" can be taken a number of ways. In one word, I was trying to say that people who do not accept science are rejecting the best means we have of determining objective reality through investigation and logical reasoning.

At no time did I make personal comments about you.

Your descriptions of science in action do not appear to reflect the way scientists actually work. That is not a personal insult, just a statement of fact. If you were to say that I don't know how to do calculus or weld, I would not feel insulted since that is true.

You accuse me of saying that people who do not agree with me are dumb. That is absolutely not true. At no time did I use that adjective or anything like it. I have no idea how you reached this conclusion.

I think that we might be better able to have a reasonable exchange of ideas if you were to consult more of the primary sources regarding the Covid-19 pandemic such as means of preventing infection.

Contrary to my previous statement, I will be happy to discuss this further if we can be more objective in our posts. Hope to hear from you in a more positive vein.

I absolutely took exception to the comment of the weak-minded not following scientist and politicians. I absolutely disagree with that statement to its core.

I understand how science works. I also know many scientists and their studies are bought and paid for to achieve a result you choose. This absolutely casts skepticism in the process.

Then when governments start using cliff’s notes of studies it makes me even more skeptical.

I am able to read and come to my own conclusions based on evidence set before me. I may not always be right but neither is anyone else.

Like I said, when Tam was telling us that masks were ineffective there really was no evidence of that. It was a means for the government to try and control the supply of masks. Nothing more. When she said that, I acquired more. Why? Because I’m not weak-minded and went against the “science and politics” being thrust at us.

I believe in the scientific process but that process is only as hood as the employers. Tobacco industry scientists would be a good example. So like I said, a healthy skepticism and using critical thought with science and politics I think should be a must.

So yeah, I got a little hot reading that. Sorry if I went too far.

As for the comment of dumb, that was my own inference of one with a weak mind.

[trooper]

Originally Posted by lyallpeder

Medical center’s and hospitals in Edmonton do the same thing. It’s just not controlled by the city like going to Canadian tire now is.

We just came back from Cabelas North Edmonton, Canadian tire and Walmart, Ft. Sask. where no staff member told my wife and I to mask up. There were people in all locations both maskers and non maskers. No issues either way. The staff members in these locations were all masked.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I absolutely took exception to the comment of the weak-minded not following scientist and politicians. I absolutely disagree with that statement to its core.

Then when governments start using cliff’s notes of studies it makes me even more skeptical.

I am able to read and come to my own conclusions based on evidence set before me. I may not always be right but neither is anyone else.

I believe in the scientific process but that process is only as hood as the employers. Tobacco industry scientists would be a good example. So like I said, a healthy skepticism and using critical thought with science and politics I think should be a must.

So yeah, I got a little hot reading that. Sorry if I went too far.

As for the comment of dumb, that was my own inference of one with a weak mind.

I was really careless in my choice of words and I'm sorry I offended you. That was not my intent for sure.

What I end up thinking, not from anything you said but just in general, is that we have science or we have magic. I don't think the human part of science is perfect, just that the scientific method is the best we have.

There are examples of scientists producing the results that are expected of them by whoever is in charge of the grant system or whoever employs them. I start to trust the process, though, when the conclusions from a larger number of studies, institutions, and countries start to agree and very few disagree based on evidence.

If I think I can understand the experimental design or observational bases, I like to read the primary sources. Of course, I can't understand some of them and the statistics are way beyond me, but it's the closest I can get to first-hand experience.

Your example of the tobacco scientists is a good one. At the same time, however, there were more scientists showing how using tobacco causes cancer, emphysema and other ailments.

I sometimes wonder what a group of elite epidemiologists would produce for a Covid-19 plan if their only aim was to save the maximum number of lives. Given the politics involved, I don't think we will ever know.

Have a good evening.

[pikergolf]

More info for you guys to hash out.

https://medicinehatnews.com/news/loc...-had-covid-19/

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

More info for you guys to hash out.

https://medicinehatnews.com/news/loc...-had-covid-19/

Oh no....the "AO Covid Thread 5" probably have their group chat fired up to tell you this is fake news and to get the mask on as we are only at the beginning of the curve.

[jeprli]

Even if your blood sample is positive they will not notify you....breach of privacy in play?

[sk270]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I understand how science works. I also know many scientists and their studies are bought and paid for to achieve a result you choose. This absolutely casts skepticism in the process.

Given the posts above, I think this thread is about to take off again on another tangent so I hope you see this.

I've spent some more time thinking about what you said. In the beginning , I should have said that I think that the categorical mistrust of science is an error. We need to be more nuanced in our interpretation of research.

I was fired up by what I saw as a wholesale rejection of research findings by some of those posting in this thread.

The research on masks, and many other aspects of Covid-19, is being done all around the world. I do believe the science when I see laboratory, modelling, in-hospital, epidemiological research from many countries and many researchers, funded by a myriad of sources that reach a reasonable consensus.

I agree that science, as most things done by humans, is flawed as humans are flawed. However, I submit that it is the best that we have. The more complex the question, the less likely that science can readily answer it. An example would be quantum physics. Simpler questions can be answered, such as how much of a cough or sneeze is captured by a surgical mask. Some questions cannot be answered by science, such as the perfect way to deal with a pandemic.

As I said, I did some more thinking about this last night and thought I'd try to further clarify my position.

I'm glad I took the time to respond to you and vice versa. I got a lot out of our exchange.

[Deezel]

Looks like "the experts" will have more plans for us sheep.

Done properly, night curfews can be helpful in curbing coronavirus outbreaks, experts say

[elkhunter11]

Although masks aren't mandatory in my city, and the percentage of people wearing masks is low, I saw a person wearing a mask in the gym for the first time. I have worn respirators and masks at work while climbing stairs and ladders, and I was thinking that it must be uncomfortable to wear a mask while exerting yourself in the gym. But after observing the fellow now and then between sets, I realized that it wasn't an issue for him, since he spent the vast majority of his time on the phone, and there was no exertion on his part. I always wonder why people bother buying a membership, and traveling to the gym, when they do virtually nothing other than use their phone when they are there, but if I was as worried about being exposed to covid as some people, the gym would be the last place that I would go. Even though most of us wipe down the equipment after use, there is still a lot of contact with equipment that other people have recently contacted, and most people don't put a lot of effort into wiping down the equipment when they are finished.

[JamesB]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Sounds like you are a believer in Trumps load about "we test more so we find it" or whatever he's spewing. Fact is the US is the worst in the world and they don't look like they can get out of that position for a few months.

US is the worst what?
Yes they have lots of cases, but they seem to be treating their cases better than we are.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by JamesB

US is the worst what?
Yes they have lots of cases, but they seem to be treating their cases better than we are.

It looks like they are doing a lot better than we are.

[fishnguy]

^ Not exactly. To keep things consistent and use the same source, which I chose to be worldometer, total recorded fatalities in the US are 164,900 and 8,976 in Canada. Rounded to the nearest million, population of the US is 328M and it is 38M in Canada. To make it short, adjusted for population difference, we would currently have 19,104 recorded COVID mortalities in Canada if were doing as well as they are. Perspective and numbers used in the above graph are garbage and only useful to researchers. For general population, they are nothing but an influence to form/adjust/reinforce an opinion, nothing more. Propaganda is as good word to use as any in this case.

To mention here, according to CDC, influenza killed 34,200 people in 2018-19 season in the US. That was with no lockdowns and life as we knew it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

^ Not exactly. To keep things consistent and use the same source, which I chose to be worldometer, total recorded fatalities in the US are 164,900 and 8,976 in Canada. Rounded to the nearest million, population of the US is 328M and it is 38M in Canada. To make it short, adjusted for population difference, we would currently have 19,104 recorded COVID mortalities in Canada if were doing as well as they are. Perspective and numbers used in the above graph are garbage and only useful to researchers. For general population, they are nothing but an influence to form/adjust/reinforce an opinion, nothing more. Propaganda is as good word to use as any in this case.

To mention here, according to CDC, influenza killed 34,200 people in 2018-19 season in the US. That was with no lockdowns and life as we knew it.

So the USA has close to nine times the population of Canada, and you double our mortality numbers to compensate for the difference in population?

And that doesn't take into account that the USA has nine times the population density, which greatly increases the chance of exposure.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So the USA has close to nine times the population of Canada, and you double our mortality numbers to compensate for the difference in population?

And that doesn't take into account that the USA has nine times the population density, which greatly increases the chance of exposure.

Boom

[JamesB]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

^ Not exactly. To keep things consistent and use the same source, which I chose to be worldometer, total recorded fatalities in the US are 164,900 and 8,976 in Canada. Rounded to the nearest million, population of the US is 328M and it is 38M in Canada. To make it short, adjusted for population difference, we would currently have 19,104 recorded COVID mortalities in Canada if were doing as well as they are. Perspective and numbers used in the above graph are garbage and only useful to researchers. For general population, they are nothing but an influence to form/adjust/reinforce an opinion, nothing more. Propaganda is as good word to use as any in this case.

To mention here, according to CDC, influenza killed 34,200 people in 2018-19 season in the US. That was with no lockdowns and life as we knew it.

Not really sure what your point is however as I indicated the US has higher numbers but a lower case fatality rate. That means a lower proportion of those infected have died. That is a fact. I was being facetious suggesting it was due to better care as we all know there are many other factors at play. My point is only that suggesting that the US is the worst is both wrong and a gross over simplification.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So the USA has close to nine times the population of Canada, and you double our mortality numbers to compensate for the difference in population?

And that doesn't take into account that the USA has nine times the population density, which greatly increases the chance of exposure.

Lol. From the Government of Canada website: The majority of cases (84.2%) and deaths (94.4%) have been reported by Ontario and Quebec. that’s in terms of population density.

And no, I didn’t just double our mortality rate, but made a simple calculation based on mortalities per unit of population. For example, based on the Swedish numbers of COVID reported deaths of 5,763 and population of 10M, we would have 21,899 deaths reported in Canada (their GDP also shrank by nearly 9% in Q2). Based on the Japanese stats, we would have 313 deaths; Singapore - 171; North Korea - 1 suspected case, lol.

Originally Posted by JamesB

Not really sure what your point is however as I indicated the US has higher numbers but a lower case fatality rate. That means a lower proportion of those infected have died. That is a fact. I was being facetious suggesting it was due to better care as we all know there are many other factors at play. My point is only that suggesting that the US is the worst is both wrong and a gross over simplification.

The fact is they have more than twice as many people dead so far per unit of population. That clearly indicates they are not doing better. Sweden is worth than the US though, based on this metric. CFR alone doesn’t not mean anything. Fatalities per unit of population is a far better metric to show what had happened up to this point. Not saying that this alone is perfect indicator, of course, but the general picture is fairly clear. Sorry, I have to run but I might write more later when I get a chance.

[JamesB]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Lol. From the Government of Canada website: The majority of cases (84.2%) and deaths (94.4%) have been reported by Ontario and Quebec. that’s in terms of population density.

And no, I didn’t just double our mortality rate, but made a simple calculation based on mortalities per unit of population. For example, based on the Swedish numbers of COVID reported deaths of 5,763 and population of 10M, we would have 21,899 deaths reported in Canada (their GDP also shrank by nearly 9% in Q2). Based on the Japanese stats, we would have 313 deaths; Singapore - 171; North Korea - 1 suspected case, lol.


The fact is they have more than twice as many people dead so far per unit of population. That clearly indicates they are not doing better. Sweden is worth than the US though, based on this metric. CFR alone doesn’t not mean anything. Fatalities per unit of population is a far better metric to show what had happened up to this point. Not saying that this alone is perfect indicator, of course, but the general picture is fairly clear. Sorry, I have to run but I might write more later when I get a chance.

No, not at all. It is a different metric. The facts indicate that while you are more likely to get the virus in the US, you are also more likely to survive getting it there than here. Also once more, there are many other factors at work and generalities are mostly inaccurate.

[muirsy]

17 pages of arguing over masks, when it appears most people spend their days at home on a keyboard getting mad on the internet.

The irony!

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by muirsy

17 pages of arguing over masks, when it appears most people spend their days at home on a keyboard getting mad on the internet.

The irony!

lol!!!