Now I get to pay CPP2 and people are scared of an APP

[Ram94]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

You made me look

CPP:

2019.....$2748.90
2020.....$2898
2021.....$3166.45
2022.....$3499.80
2023.....$3745.45

It's gone up $1000 since 2019

Makes me sick.......EI on the steady growth plan as well.

And don’t forget to add CPP2 this year. Puts it over $4000 now.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ram94

And don’t forget to add CPP2 this year. Puts it over $4000 now.

I hear ya. Kinda makes me wonder why I work......and who I work for

[GWN]

Couple more points to consider,

First - CPP is basically a Ponzi scheme, money comes in and then goes right out to retirees

Second - tail end of the baby-boomers is coming up pretty fast, about 8-12 years or so and as baby-boomers die off the younger people start gaining a lot more political power, the younger generations are being financially squeezed into oblivion, does anyone here expect the majority of them to say "sure, keep taxing me to death to pay for old farts"

Three - Alberta in general has a younger population earning more on average than other provinces, hence the larger contribution of CPP premiums sitting in Ottawa's hands

Put those all together and you can understand why the Crack-Baby wants to keep CPP together, without Alberta the house of cards crumbles.

At the same time politics will morph such that the younger generations give the federal governments more power to restrict benefits to the older generations as they assume greater political power.

Think about all the intriguing developments around health care, MAID, feds assuming greater control over provincial jurisdiction, does anyone here trust the Federal Governments (likely to maintain at least some Liberal influence) to be reasonable and responsible? To treat people fairly and ethically? Or to start doing more cost-benefit analysis of our lives?

My position is that we should do everything we can to control all our resources for Albertans, APP is a great start. Keep our money here for Albertans.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by GWN

Couple more points to consider,

First - CPP is basically a Ponzi scheme, money comes in and then goes right out to retirees

Second - tail end of the baby-boomers is coming up pretty fast, about 8-12 years or so and as baby-boomers die off the younger people start gaining a lot more political power, the younger generations are being financially squeezed into oblivion, does anyone here expect the majority of them to say "sure, keep taxing me to death to pay for old farts"

Three - Alberta in general has a younger population earning more on average than other provinces, hence the larger contribution of CPP premiums sitting in Ottawa's hands

Put those all together and you can understand why the Crack-Baby wants to keep CPP together, without Alberta the house of cards crumbles.

At the same time politics will morph such that the younger generations give the federal governments more power to restrict benefits to the older generations as they assume greater political power.

Think about all the intriguing developments around health care, MAID, feds assuming greater control over provincial jurisdiction, does anyone here trust the Federal Governments (likely to maintain at least some Liberal influence) to be reasonable and responsible? To treat people fairly and ethically? Or to start doing more cost-benefit analysis of our lives?

My position is that we should do everything we can to control all our resources for Albertans, APP is a great start. Keep our money here for Albertans.

Sorry, old fart here, I paid into the CPP for 48 years, they only use my highest 40 years of contributions to calculate the CPP I get now, and they charge me income tax on that too. I happen to think that I paid more than my fair share into the CPP vs what my payout is, especially since I get zero benefit for around 8 years of contributions made by me and my employers.

Instead of advocating for APP you should all be demanding your pension savings be in your name alone, and you should have more control over when and how much you can draw out of YOUR retirement savings plan.

[eric2381]

It absolutely should be in each individuals hands. The harder and more they work and earn, the more their retirement fund should be. Socialism is a scam to the hard working, intelligent people of the world.

[W921]

What is CCP 2? The old age supplement?

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by W921

What is CCP 2? The old age supplement?

OAS is CPP #3 now. CPP #2 is the lieberals cramming a rate increase down our throats because the scam is underfunded.

[lead chucker]

The fact that cpp has gone up $1000 since 2019 tells me that this has become a bloody joke. I'm 42 years old, will I see any of this money by 65? I doubt it. We absolutely need to take our share and go.!!! The faster we can separate ourselves from the rest of canada the better.

[Coiloil37]

[QUOTE=Instead of advocating for APP you should all be demanding your pension savings be in your name alone, and you should have more control over when and how much you can draw out of YOUR retirement savings plan.[/QUOTE]



I’ve been trying to stay out of these conversations but since you mentioned it I’ll add my peso.

Your right. The Canadian CPP fiasco isn’t the direction you guys should look. I’ve only seen two systems. The CPP that I paid into when I worked in Canada and the Australian superannuation that I’ve had since I started working here 13 years ago.

Superannuation here is a mandatory payment made on top of your wage into YOUR individually chosen fund by your employer. Most super funds are a mutual fund but they can be taken self managed and you can buy property or individual stocks, precious metals, etc. There are rules as to what you can and can’t do. It attracts 15% tax that’s only paid when the money is deposited into your fund. You can salary sacrifice from your earnings to get the tax shelter if you choose. All the earnings and withdrawals (after age 60) are tax free, guys in my age bracket can take 10% of the yearly opening balance per year starting at age 55 and can have access to all of their super, tax free at age 60. It’s been pretending to go up with inflation, the minimum contribution goes to 11.5% this year and 12% next year.
For return, the industry average is over 8% and in 13 years mine has NEVER failed to exceed that. I’m not going to name specific numbers but anyone who works a well paying job over here is retiring with 7-8 figures of their own money that can be spent tax free once they’re 60.

If I was reinventing the wheel I would throw away the whole model you guys are using and look around the world to see what else is out there.

Oh yea, RRSP’s suck too. When dad died and the estate liquidated his RRSP’s they attracted the maximum tax rate and we lost 6 figures to the CRA. Thats not what he had in mind when he put money there.

Some info for those who care to look.

https://www.industrysuper.com/understand-super/

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

I’ve been trying to stay out of these conversations but since you mentioned it I’ll add my peso.

Your right. The Canadian CPP fiasco isn’t the direction you guys should look. I’ve only seen two systems. The CPP that I paid into when I worked in Canada and the Australian superannuation that I’ve had since I started working here 13 years ago.

Superannuation here is a mandatory payment made on top of your wage into YOUR individually chosen fund by your employer. Most super funds are a mutual fund but they can be taken self managed and you can buy property or individual stocks, precious metals, etc. There are rules as to what you can and can’t do. It attracts 15% tax that’s only paid when the money is deposited into your fund. You can salary sacrifice from your earnings to get the tax shelter if you choose. All the earnings and withdrawals (after age 60) are tax free, guys in my age bracket can take 10% of the yearly opening balance per year starting at age 55 and can have access to all of their super, tax free at age 60. It’s been pretending to go up with inflation, the minimum contribution goes to 11.5% this year and 12% next year.
For return, the industry average is over 8% and in 13 years mine has NEVER failed to exceed that. I’m not going to name specific numbers but anyone who works a well paying job over here is retiring with 7-8 figures of their own money that can be spent tax free once they’re 60.

If I was reinventing the wheel I would throw away the whole model you guys are using and look around the world to see what else is out there.

Oh yea, RRSP’s suck too. When dad died and the estate liquidated his RRSP’s they attracted the maximum tax rate and we lost 6 figures to the CRA. Thats not what he had in mind when he put money there.

Some info for those who care to look.

https://www.industrysuper.com/understand-super/

Agree 100%

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Sorry, old fart here, I paid into the CPP for 48 years, they only use my highest 40 years of contributions to calculate the CPP I get now, and they charge me income tax on that too. I happen to think that I paid more than my fair share into the CPP vs what my payout is, especially since I get zero benefit for around 8 years of contributions made by me and my employers.

Instead of advocating for APP you should all be demanding your pension savings be in your name alone, and you should have more control over when and how much you can draw out of YOUR retirement savings plan.

I agree 100%. However the CPP is mandatory and the only way out of it is to have an equivalent. So an APP or as Quebec has the QPP (or whatever its called) and those are our choices.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

I’ve been trying to stay out of these conversations but since you mentioned it I’ll add my peso.

Your right. The Canadian CPP fiasco isn’t the direction you guys should look. I’ve only seen two systems. The CPP that I paid into when I worked in Canada and the Australian superannuation that I’ve had since I started working here 13 years ago.

Superannuation here is a mandatory payment made on top of your wage into YOUR individually chosen fund by your employer. Most super funds are a mutual fund but they can be taken self managed and you can buy property or individual stocks, precious metals, etc. There are rules as to what you can and can’t do. It attracts 15% tax that’s only paid when the money is deposited into your fund. You can salary sacrifice from your earnings to get the tax shelter if you choose. All the earnings and withdrawals (after age 60) are tax free, guys in my age bracket can take 10% of the yearly opening balance per year starting at age 55 and can have access to all of their super, tax free at age 60. It’s been pretending to go up with inflation, the minimum contribution goes to 11.5% this year and 12% next year.
For return, the industry average is over 8% and in 13 years mine has NEVER failed to exceed that. I’m not going to name specific numbers but anyone who works a well paying job over here is retiring with 7-8 figures of their own money that can be spent tax free once they’re 60.

If I was reinventing the wheel I would throw away the whole model you guys are using and look around the world to see what else is out there.

Oh yea, RRSP’s suck too. When dad died and the estate liquidated his RRSP’s they attracted the maximum tax rate and we lost 6 figures to the CRA. Thats not what he had in mind when he put money there.

Some info for those who care to look.

https://www.industrysuper.com/understand-super/

If RRSP's were any good, the government wouldn't be doing their darndest to get us all to buy them.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I agree 100%. However the CPP is mandatory and the only way out of it is to have an equivalent. So an APP or as Quebec has the QPP (or whatever its called) and those are our choices.

I got a funny feeling that if the APP was implemented after the three year process and an increase happened the same people complaining now would be doing it all over again....

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I agree 100%. However the CPP is mandatory and the only way out of it is to have an equivalent. So an APP or as Quebec has the QPP (or whatever its called) and those are our choices.

I see no sense in setting up an APP just like the CPP, it’s an opportunity to start a plan like Australia has.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

If RRSP's were any good, the government wouldn't be doing their darndest to get us all to buy them.

If you use them properly, they can be very beneficial. I was making more than twice as much when I contributed them, and I now draw some every year, and am being taxed much less than I would have been when I earned the money. And my RRSPs were invested, and grew significantly over the years. The only issue, is if you don't live long enough to draw it out, and whoever inherits your RRSPs is taxed as if the money was all drawn out as a lump sum.

[bradleyk]

For those who are interested in the history of both CPP contributions and CPP benefit amounts, there is a very good summary here that goes back to the start. Certainly a study in escalation!

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

I see no sense in setting up an APP just like the CPP, it’s an opportunity to start a plan like Australia has.

I don’t disagree, I however never wrote, nor can I change the laws governing the mandated CPP or an equivalent plan.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I got a funny feeling that if the APP was implemented after the three year process and an increase happened the same people complaining now would be doing it all over again....

I doubt it. I highly doubt it. If rates rise that is acceptable. When rates rise 33% over 4 years then a second CPP is incorporated, the complaints are justified.

Also, if we had an APP and my rates rose, I could easily google the amount I would be contributing if in a CPP, see that it is currently half of that, smile and laugh at the Eastern leeches. There would be no complaining, only happiness.

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

If RRSP's were any good, the government wouldn't be doing their darndest to get us all to buy them.

Exactly. I wish I could convince my coworkers of this but they have it in their heads it's free money blah blah blah. Sorry but I am not going to pay tax on money that was already taxed.

Glad coiloil chimed in.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

I see no sense in setting up an APP just like the CPP, it’s an opportunity to start a plan like Australia has.

Baby steps. 1st & most important thing is to get the $ home.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by DirtShooter

Exactly. I wish I could convince my coworkers of this but they have it in their heads it's free money blah blah blah. Sorry but I am not going to pay tax on money that was already taxed.

Glad coiloil chimed in.

Hate to burst your bubble, but it gets untaxed when you put it into the RRSP and then taxed when you withdraw from it.

There are some good things about an RRSP but even better is a TFSA, both types of plans can compound growth over the years, the income growth in the RRSP will ultimately get taxed, the TFSA growth is tax free even on withdrawal. For a young person just getting started out that compound growth can make all the difference in the world especially if you can get a good rate of return 10% plus.

[Geraldsh]

The best thing about an RRSP was when the employer matched my contribution, up to 5% of my wage. Then I started rolling over to TFSA’s as soon as they came out.

[Unregistered user]

Unlike a DBPP the CPP has no cash value. You contribute for your whole working life and if you're single, a $2500 "Death Benefit" is paid out to next of kin or executor etc. If married, the spouse gets a widow's pension. Peanuts compared to a lifetime of contributions. People should have the option to opt out of goverment plans and invest elsewhere.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Unlike a DBPP the CPP has no cash value. You contribute for your whole working life and if you're single, a $2500 "Death Benefit" is paid out to next of kin or executor etc. If married, the spouse gets a widow's pension. Peanuts compared to a lifetime of contributions. People should have the option to opt out of goverment plans and invest elsewhere.

Communism, ideas soo good, they’re mandatory. Getting our hard earned money out of the hands of Ottawa is priority 1.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by I’d rather be outdoors

Communism, ideas soo good, they’re mandatory. Getting our hard earned money out of the hands of Ottawa is priority 1.

Yep, communism leverage the labour of the givers to care for the takers. If there was a way to opt out, 97% of the givers would opt out as there is no net gain for them. The takers would starve.

[FishHunterPro]

.......

[FishHunterPro]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

In spite I’m all for an APP over CPP even if in the long run it hurts me financially as I don’t Care because it’s obviously us against them as the only good thing that’s coming out of eastern Canada right now is the Sun.

100% agree

[roper1]

Albertan's just lost 1.3 bil on Keystone, 102 mil of 1988 $$ on Magcan that ballooned to 163mil. 1988 dollars.

This, after, in true excellent business meddling by gov't, after they told us we're getting 334 bil worth of CPP cash.........and they'll be controlling the purse strings??? Oh wait, it's Ok if we go broke, they're one of us.

Ummm, ahem , that's good old local Con Ab gov'ts, not the big meanies down east sucking our money. To say nothing if Rach happened to win the next provincial election. Yessir, then we bitchen about Jag instead of Justin.

As I've said 6 times on here, I was a huge APP proponent until they fudged the numbers..........

[AxeMan]

Originally Posted by roper1

Albertan's just lost 1.3 bil on Keystone, 102 mil of 1988 $$ on Magcan that ballooned to 163mil. 1988 dollars.

This, after, in true excellent business meddling by gov't, after they told us we're getting 334 bil worth of CPP cash.........and they'll be controlling the purse strings??? Oh wait, it's Ok if we go broke, they're one of us.

Ummm, ahem , that's good old local Con Ab gov'ts, not the big meanies down east sucking our money. To say nothing if Rach happened to win the next provincial election. Yessir, then we bitchen about Jag instead of Justin.

As I've said 6 times on here, I was a huge APP proponent until they fudged the numbers..........

Roper1, I am going to have to correct you yet again. Who fudged the numbers? And what are the real numbers then? The Ab gov. contracted LifeWorks for a report and they quoted the numbers from that report:

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/8453...ns-2023-08.pdf

Where are the actual numbers then? Chrystia Freeland sure seems to be taking her time commissioning the "real" numbers from the CPP administration which should be on hand immediately. How do they know what numbers to put on the current CPP cheques across this country now if those numbers are not on hand to the penny. The CPP sure seemed to jump to action to put TV ads up pumping their tires though, something they have never done before.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

Roper1, I am going to have to correct you yet again. Who fudged the numbers? And what are the real numbers then? The Ab gov. contracted LifeWorks for a report and they quoted the numbers from that report:

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/8453...ns-2023-08.pdf

Where are the actual numbers then? Chrystia Freeland sure seems to be taking her time commissioning the "real" numbers from the CPP administration which should be on hand immediately. How do they know what numbers to put on the current CPP cheques across this country now if those numbers are not on hand to the penny. The CPP sure seemed to jump to action to put TV ads up pumping their tires though, something they have never done before.

I've seen something like 30-34 billion quoted, the UCP had their azz roasted at EVERY town hall over the malarkey. Are you comfortable if the number is infinitesimally smaller than they quoted ?

You think provincial Cons have a good track record, Keystone de damned?? Absolutely not trying to be disrespectful, I just can't grasp Albertans acceptance of obvious hooey.

For the 77th time, I'll state my loud support for an APP, until i started to do some research.

You comfortable with Kenney/Prentiss holding the purse strings, much less Rach? No disrespect intended!