…The Box Says So…

[Rman]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Perhaps your reading comprehension needs work. Didn't suggest it was shot with a .224 I said it looked like it was shot with one....

Anyway I will graciously defer my meek experience and meagre knowledge to those vast esteemed books of knowledge like R-man and many others who bless this forum with their vast knowledge of things and facts that just aren't so. I'll demurely sit on the sidelines and watch with awe all the nonsense that some spew here... maybe I'll take my ball and go home, maybe I'll tell my mommy!!........
Or perhaps I don't give a care, find this amusing and will say whatever I say lol

I'm fairly sure my comprehension is just fine...as per your quote above, its the same thing?
Your grasp of experience seems to be lacking again. All you had to do was mention all of your meek experience and meagre knowledge, and actually participate on the thread. Yet you choose not to, for some reason?
As far as facts that just aren't true, I'm not sure how many pictures of dead critters, killed with the bullet in question you need to see? Never mind that a fact has to be true, or it isn't a fact (there is that comprehension thing again). Considering the source of most of the nonsense on this thread, and who is spewing it, you'll just have to watch closer, as opposed to farther.
Lots of ways to get stuff done, telling is the way you have chosen.

To get things back on track, I'm heading out again tomorrow to try and shoot the largest bodied muley buck I can find with an A-max. If successful, I'll make sure I post up the results, good, bad, or marginal. My actual experience tells me that should I connect, the outcome will be very predictable, and more than favourable. lol

R.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Rman

I'm fairly sure my comprehension is just fine...as per your quote above, its the same thing?
Your grasp of experience seems to be lacking again. All you had to do was mention all of your meek experience and meagre knowledge, and actually participate on the thread. Yet you choose not to, for some reason?
As far as facts that just aren't true, I'm not sure how many pictures of dead critters, killed with the bullet in question you need to see? Never mind that a fact has to be true, or it isn't a fact (there is that comprehension thing again). Considering the source of most of the nonsense on this thread, and who is spewing it, you'll just have to watch closer, as opposed to farther.
Lots of ways to get stuff done, telling is the way you have chosen.


R.

Never realised I had to write a resume any time I make a comment. I said they were primarily a match bullet, they act like a match bullet when they strike game, the manufacturer says they were designed as a match bullet and that they also work on light thin skinned game. They don't recommend it for big thick skinned game like moose. Sure it can kill big heavy boned thick skinned critters like moose or Grizzly bears etc......so can a .22 rimfire, doesn't mean it is ideal or even recommended. Apparently you know better than the people who design and produce them....that's fair enough.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Rman

To get things back on track, I'm heading out again tomorrow to try and shoot the largest bodied muley buck I can find with an A-max. If successful, I'll make sure I post up the results, good, bad, or marginal. My actual experience tells me that should I connect, the outcome will be very predictable, and more than favourable. lol

R.

Of course the results should be favorable after all it is recommended for light thin skinned game like deer. I guess you missed that part in my second or third post.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Of course the results should be favorable after all it is recommended for light thin skinned game like deer. I guess you missed that part in my second or third post.

Hornady's recommendation says nothing about "light" thin-skinned game, just thin-skinned game. We don't use that term for differentiating our game animals here in N/A, since all our game animals are thin-skinned, but they do in Africa. Thick-skinned game refers to Cape buff, elephant, rhino, hippo, etc. It has nothing to do with moose or grizzly bear.

[Robmcleod82]

I seen some alaskan Browns that were killed with 162s out of a 7wsm. Impressive to say the least

[Jordan Smith]

A 208gr A-Max dug out from under the offside hide of yet another bull moose...

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Robmcleod82

I seen some alaskan Browns that were killed with 162s out of a 7wsm. Impressive to say the least

Are Alaskan brown bears considered dangerous game? If you look on page 99 of the Hornady seventh edition where they check off appropriate uses for the 162 A-max, Hornady does not check off large game or dangerous game as an appropriate use for that bullet. I shot lots of 162 A-maxs out of my 7WSM. I'm sure I could kill a grizzly bear with them no problem, but why when there are far more suitable bullets for that purpose. I have seen a Large coastal grizzly bear shot with a 243 and 55 grain ballistic tips by a wolf hunter, it was an impressive one shot instant kill and an impressive wound to the head to say the least but dosen't mean it is an appropriate combination for coastal grizzlies. I'll stick with manufacturers suggestions.

It's a free country, If you don't like my opinion that's ok.

[Jordan Smith]

Berger designed and recommended the VLD for targets only, before hunters started using them on game against manufacturer recommendations, and found out that they work. Now Berger markets that same bullet specifically for game, and makes a sturdier version for target shooting. Many hunters now endorse the use of VLD's on game.

If a bullet works, it works. Despite what the manufacturer says. The A-Max is very effective, and is seen at its best on longer shots once the impact velocity has dropped off a bit. In cartridges starting bullets over 3000+fps, I tend to carry a TTSX load in the magazine for quick, close shots at any angle, and A-Max loads for longer shot opportunities. Works for me.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

If a bullet works, it works. Despite what the manufacturer says. The A-Max is very effective, and is seen at its best on longer shots once the impact velocity has dropped off a bit. In cartridges starting bullets over 3000+fps, I tend to carry a TTSX load in the magazine for quick, close shots at any angle, and A-Max loads for longer shot opportunities. Works for me.

Interesting you parrot basically the same thing I said in my second paragraph on post #10. Your use of the TTSX load at close range doesn't show a lot of confidence in A-max terminal performance at high velocity close range either. So now It appears we agree???

hmmmm........

Gotta love you guys.....

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Berger designed and recommended the VLD for targets only, before hunters started using them on game against manufacturer recommendations, and found out that they work. Now Berger markets that same bullet specifically for game, and makes a sturdier version for target shooting. Many hunters now endorse the use of VLD's on game.

If a bullet works, it works. Despite what the manufacturer says. The A-Max is very effective, and is seen at its best on longer shots once the impact velocity has dropped off a bit. In cartridges starting bullets over 3000+fps, I tend to carry a TTSX load in the magazine for quick, close shots at any angle, and A-Max loads for longer shot opportunities. Works for me.

Packing a variety of bullet types based on whatever shooting opportunity might present itself is a whole new concept to me. I've always stoked my gun with the same bullets for whatever may happen. Even though this might be the "new rage", I'll stick to what I know. Given that I've now at this time in my life, I've decided to hunt with a single shot B78, I pack 5 rounds of 165gr Interlocks....dear God help me.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Interesting you parrot basically the same thing I said in my second paragraph on post #10. Your use of the TTSX load at close range doesn't show a lot of confidence in A-max terminal performance at high velocity close range either. So now It appears we agree???

hmmmm........

Gotta love you guys.....

LOL, my position has never changed. While 500 A-Max bullets on the shelf might seem like a lot to you, I assure you a measly 5 boxes doesn't last long enough to collect any dust in my basement. The difference between you and I, is that my assessment and opinion of the A-Max's effectiveness on game, is from actually shooting a bunch of game with different weights and calibers of the bullet, while yours is based off of what you read in Hornady's reloading manual.

I never once said the A-Max pushed at warp speed is the ideal close-range, south to north, bone-busting bullet. I simply said that I've shot it, and seen it shot, almost lengthwise through moose, deer, and elk, and it's never shown me anything but stellar performance. Recognizing that the AM is ideal for LR shots, doesn't mean that it won't work at close range. Having said that, I've witnessed right around 121 big-game animals die via X/TSX/TTSX, and they are certainly my favourite bullet when I'm expecting to take a shot at the south end of a northbound critter that I've jumped from its bed. If pushed above 3000+fps, I like the TTSX for close shots. Don't mistake that to mean that the A-Max won't get the job done, it's just not my first choice for the task. If I'm starting the bullet out at under 3000fps, particularly in the neighbourhood of 2750fps, such as the 162AM being pushed from the 7-08, then I'll take the AM for everything. Both of the moose killed by the AM bullets in my previously posted pics were killed at under 200 yards. The AM gets the job done.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Packing a variety of bullet types based on whatever shooting opportunity might present itself is a whole new concept to me. I've always stoked my gun with the same bullets for whatever may happen. Even though this might be the "new rage", I'll stick to what I know. Given that I've now at this time in my life, I've decided to hunt with a single shot B78, I pack 5 rounds of 165gr Interlocks....dear God help me.

Hah, oh I think it's far from the new rage, I don't even think it's all that common. In fact, while I'm sure it's been done before, I'm the first one I know of to do it. It's a simple concept, really. I keep the mag loaded and in battery with the bullet that I might want to use quickly, without much notice, in a "point and shoot" situation. For me, that is usually a TTSX for shots that arise quickly and usually under 400 yards. Because I practice and prepare to take advantage of opportunities for shots much further than 400 yards, I carry a few rounds with bullets ideal for the job, like the AM. I sometimes also carry a few Blue Dot loads with a lightweight bullet pushed at a pedestrian ~2000fps, for shooting grouse or rabbits in the head. If the need arises to shoot large critters beyond about 400 yards, or grouse or rabbits under 30 yards, I typically have plenty of time to empty the TTSX loads from the rifle, and insert a few of whatever load I need in the mag.

While this might not tickle every guy's fancy, it works awesome for me.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

LOL, my position has never changed. While 500 A-Max bullets on the shelf might seem like a lot to you, I assure you a measly 5 boxes doesn't last long enough to collect any dust in my basement.

oh dear..... plainly you have no clue as to how many thousands of bullets I have on the shelf....

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Hah, oh I think it's far from the new rage, I don't even think it's all that common. In fact, while I'm sure it's been done before, I'm the first one I know of to do it. It's a simple concept, really. I keep the mag loaded and in battery with the bullet that I might want to use quickly, without much notice, in a "point and shoot" situation. For me, that is usually a TTSX for shots that arise quickly and usually under 400 yards. Because I practice and prepare to take advantage of opportunities for shots much further than 400 yards, I carry a few rounds with bullets ideal for the job, like the AM. I sometimes also carry a few Blue Dot loads with a lightweight bullet pushed at a pedestrian ~2000fps, for shooting grouse or rabbits in the head. If the need arises to shoot large critters beyond about 400 yards, or grouse or rabbits under 30 yards, I typically have plenty of time to empty the TTSX loads from the rifle, and insert a few of whatever load I need in the mag.

While this might not tickle every guy's fancy, it works awesome for me.

Hunters and shooters have been using different rifle and shotgun shell loadings since I was a kid reading Field and Stream and Sports Afield .
Fadala , Wooters, O'Connor and many others have written about it.
I myself packed different loads on the trapline for many years .
These days I simply carry one cartridge gig my rifles but to carry some non toxic loads for my shotguns when hunting upland birds in case I happen upon some waterfowl
Cat

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Hunters and shooters have been using different rifle and shotgun shell loadings since I was a kid reading Field and Stream and Sports Afield .
Fadala , Wooters, O'Connor and many others have written about it.
I myself packed different loads on the trapline for many years .
These days I simply carry one cartridge gig my rifles but to carry some non toxic loads for my shotguns when hunting upland birds in case I happen upon some waterfowl
Cat

Cat,

I remember reading about O'Connor doing it with 130 and 150gr loads in his .270, but I'm the only one I personally know that does it. That's all I meant

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

oh dear..... plainly you have no clue as to how many thousands of bullets I have on the shelf....

Good stuff. Less is not more when it comes to personal bullet supply

Among the thousands and thousands of bullets on my shelves, I've got thousands of A-Max bullets, and have killed a fair number of critters with them. So my only other question is, can you clarify how many animals you've personally killed or seen killed with A-Max bullets? I get that you've got a few on the shelf and have shot steel with them a bit, but I've not seen you state how many animals you've killed to arrive at the conclusions you have regarding the AM's effectiveness as a hunting bullet...

[Rman]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

If you look on page 99 of the Hornady seventh edition where they check off appropriate ...

You keep reading and quoting books, and running the googler. I'll keep going outside, actually doing stuff, and continuing using what works.

R.

[purgatory.sv]

Ok I am a known troll.
Sometimes I have relative information.

Usually not.

I made one comment.

Post#5

Now the second comment.

The projectile in questing is added, but the table in the book doesn’t recommend it as a hunting projectile.

That is all.

It will hurt when it impacts a being.


This particular projectile is what I would consider a non hunting round?


If the tool you are using will control this unit life should be good…

Stabilize with recommended twist.


I only obtained a digital photo unit last year, have no evidence.


I will now record when required.

I am thin skinned according to data, but I would hurt and expire with the Amax.


Fire.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Quote straight out of the Hornady manual:

"A-MAX bullets are generally for match shooting, with jackets drawn to less than .0005" concentricity and given Hornady's Ultra-Low Drag Tip. This bullet is also excellent for hunting thin-skinned game."

Like any bullet use your own disgression. Lots of guys using them at long range shooting where they expand well at low velocity way out there. Just don't be too surprised if they occasionally blow apart at high velocity close range shots and sometimes fail to penetrate well.

Exactly,

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Hornady's recommendation says nothing about "light" thin-skinned game, just thin-skinned game. We don't use that term for differentiating our game animals here in N/A, since all our game animals are thin-skinned, but they do in Africa. Thick-skinned game refers to Cape buff, elephant, rhino, hippo, etc. It has nothing to do with moose or grizzly bear.

Have a animal bed down when it is warm, in a little bit of snow or have mud, crap and debree stuck into the hair and hide then it is deemed thick skinned.

If the manufacturer suggests then there is a reason, they of all people know thier product and understand its capabilities way beyond you and me but hey the little 22lr has taken moose too...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Packing a variety of bullet types based on whatever shooting opportunity might present itself is a whole new concept to me. I've always stoked my gun with the same bullets for whatever may happen. Even though this might be the "new rage", I'll stick to what I know. Given that I've now at this time in my life, I've decided to hunt with a single shot B78, I pack 5 rounds of 165gr Interlocks....dear God help me.

I carry one load for my hunting rifle, and I choose a bullet that will work in a worst case scenario. The last thing that I want, is to find myself 50 yards from a bull elk that is quartering towards me,, with a bullet in the chamber that may or may not hold together to make it through the shoulder to the vitals.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Good stuff. Less is not more when it comes to personal bullet supply

Among the thousands and thousands of bullets on my shelves, I've got thousands of A-Max bullets, and have killed a fair number of critters with them. So my only other question is, can you clarify how many animals you've personally killed or seen killed with A-Max bullets? I get that you've got a few on the shelf and have shot steel with them a bit, but I've not seen you state how many animals you've killed to arrive at the conclusions you have regarding the AM's effectiveness as a hunting bullet...

I have not used A-max's to kill anything but targets and some gophers. I prefer to use other bullets for hunting. I don't see the need to start using them now. I don't need to kill hundreds of animals to satisfy my decision that they are not the best fit for the style of hunting I do. There is plenty of information from credible sources that their performance can sometimes be erratic on game. I am happy you guys like them and hope you have continued good luck with them.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Rman

You keep reading and quoting books, and running the googler. I'll keep going outside, actually doing stuff, and continuing using what works.

R.

It is nice that you get outside.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

The projectile in questing is added, but the table in the book doesn’t recommend it as a hunting projectile.

That is all.

in my book it does

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Have a animal bed down when it is warm, in a little bit of snow or have mud, crap and debree stuck into the hair and hide then it is deemed thick skinned.

If the manufacturer suggests then there is a reason, they of all people know thier product and understand its capabilities way beyond you and me but hey the little 22lr has taken moose too...

Maybe in your mind, but that's not the same as a 1" thick rhino hide, with bones like cinderblocks.

Did you see my Berger example above regarding manufacturer recommendations? Companies have different reasons for suggesting different uses, but by no means are they telling you everything the bullet will do or won't do. Barnes uses little pictures in their reloading manual to symbolize their recommended uses. I guess if there's a picture of an elk, I can't use the bullet on a moose? Funny stuff. In fact, manufacturers often use feedback from paying customers to determine how well a given bullet performs in a particular application. Facts and actual results trump theory and assumptions every day of the week. Google it. I wonder how Jack O'Connor or Elmer Kieth ever killed anything without PT's or TTSX's? And comparing a .22LR to a 162gr 7mm bullet is silly at best.

As an aside, just how many animals have you killed with A-Max bullets to come to such convictions?

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I have not used A-max's to kill anything but targets and some gophers. I prefer to use other bullets for hunting. I don't see the need to start using them now. I don't need to kill hundreds of animals to satisfy my decision that they are not the best fit for the style of hunting I do. There is plenty of information from credible sources that their performance can sometimes be erratic on game. I am happy you guys like them and hope you have continued good luck with them.

Thanks. I was just curious. Another factor is that if you're not willing or able to shoot game at over 300-350 yards, you have zero need for an A-Max or VLD type bullet.

For every A-Max bullet pic I post, there were a handful of similar shots that exited, so could not be photographed. I can only take pics of the ones I catch. Zero blow-ups so far. Having said that, I have no experience killing with Swift bullets, and limited experiences witnessing clients kill with them, so I try to avoid posting opinionated statements on the Internet about a bullet I've not witnessed all that much first-hand. Though it may be easy to fool the fans, it's easier to avoid putting my foot in my mouth when trying to impress the players, by keeping quiet on topics I have little experience with. It'd sure be a lot quieter here on AO if everybody took that idea into account before posting.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Rman

It is good. It allows me to experience real life things, and not prentend things.
You should try it sometime.

R.

I have actually met that very same man "Bushrat" outdoors at the Drayton Valley Rodeo, on more than one occasion. A true gentleman, a real shooter, one that I know can back up his claims in this thread. You on the other hand, I've never met. I did offer to do so. Remember that 500 yard offhand target that you claimed to have shot offhand, with open sights, with a supposedly beefed up 38-55, yes the one that I called BS on, basically called you out to be full of crap. The same one that you offered to duplicate in front of witnesses, but that you backed away from once you found out much to your demise that I would line up everything for you to prove your claim. Yes, that one. Don't you even dare to put yourself in the same league as that of Bushrat kiddo. You were playing in the sand box and sucking on mommy's titty when that guy was shooting tiny circles.

Seriously though. If you and your magical 38-55 are still up to shooting those groups on a 500 yard target, offhand as you've claimed, I'm still game for seeing that as a witness. So what say you? you gonna put up or shut up? .....

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

in my book it does

Excellent.
I like books.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

Excellent.
I like books.

Who cares ?n You like fire, light yourself up and be done with it.

[purgatory.sv]

thank you.