Best ML rod...

[Lowrance Fishburn]

So i am going to try and purchase a new ML, fast action rod, 7-7.5 ft. Exclusively used to lindy rig - I am open to casting or spinning style - Any options out there I should be looking into? I'm going to hit up Fishin Hole and Cabella's today as I have only got this afternoon to make the purchase...If anyone has any input please reply asap as the clock is ticking for me. Cheers.

[swampy45]

Love my 7’0” Fenwick Eagle, Mod Action, Medium Light. Great for the Lindy rigs and drift jigging.

[Lowrance Fishburn]

Thanks! I can understand the need for wanting a moderate action tip to allow the rod to load up and not have the fish feel it as much but do you find it sensitive enough to detect the initial strike? Hence why I was strongly considering the medium light power with fast action. At 7 ft or longer one would think there would be enough ability for the rod to load up without becoming too stiff. I already have a Shimano Talora but I don't know if its sensitive enough for finesse style rigging.

[rasbok]

i've used
7ft med fast shimano compre
7ft st croix avid

now i use 7 ft ml gLoomis and 7-6 gloomis m , both with extra fast tip.

depends on budget and how often you use them. I love my g-loomis, not sure if i would spend the extra money though.


cheers

[Walleyedude]

Go all out on the rod when it comes to a rigging rod. Sensitivity is king.

Spinning for sure, you have to have the bail open and the line on your finger.

I like longer as well, at least 7’, but 7’6” is really nice. I prefer the ML too, but it can’t be too mushy, you need good hook setting power.

Top of the line is a Loomis GLX Walleye series 9000s. It’s labelled as a LF, but it fishes like a MLF. Awesome rigging rod, it’ll handle anything from 1/8-1/2 oz weights. You can step down the Loomis lineup to the IMX and E6X if the GLX isn’t in the budget. St Croix makes nice high end rods in those lengths/actions as well.

There are other middle of the road options too - Shimano Compre/SLX, Fenwick, etc..., every brand should have something that will work.

That Talora is definitely not designed for rigging.

If you want higher end rods, TFH is your best option.

[Poppa]

the best? GLoomis E6X......... the question is what you can afford. For me, I'm a huge fan of Shimano products. The Shimano Convergence and Clarus lines are good, affordable units.

[Osky]

St.Croix has a good selection in what your looking for. Without breaking the bank the Eyecon line, the Premier line or the Avid line are good.
As said above, fast action and enough backbone to drive hooks home. The comment about fishing with the bail open and line over your finger is spot on. That line will always tell you what’s going on long before the rod will, when done right.
Good luck in your choice!

Osky

[Willowtrail]

I Lindy with the Quantum Vapor 7’2” ML extra fast and pair it with the Quantum Vapor 25. My favourite of all my setups

[EZM]

St.Croix Premier or Eyecon is an excellent choice for this application.

https://stcroixrods.com/collections/freshwater-eyecon

Split handle to feel vibrations on the blank, perfect length for bouncing and rigging, ultra sensitive tip, graphite reel seats and priced well under $200

[Lowrance Fishburn]

Thanks for all the replies guys! Much appreciated. So after some consideration I ended up with the St Croix Eyecon. 7’0 ML, fast. Feels like a really good rigging rod. The extra fast tips I have several but I feel they’re too stiff for this particular style but great for a lot of others. Will end up pairing it with a 2500 Nasci with 20 lb PowerPro Superslick V2 with an 8lb Vanish flouro leader to a 4-6 Gamakatsu. Thanks again for the input!

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Lowrance Fishburn

Thanks for all the replies guys! Much appreciated. So after some consideration I ended up with the St Croix Eyecon. 7’0 ML, fast. Feels like a really good rigging rod. The extra fast tips I have several but I feel they’re too stiff for this particular style but great for a lot of others. Will end up pairing it with a 2500 Nasci with 20 lb PowerPro Superslick V2 with an 8lb Vanish flouro leader to a 4-6 Gamakatsu. Thanks again for the input!

I’d suggest a 1000 size reel.

You’re never going to be casting with a rigging rod, but you will be holding it in your hand and concentrating for hours. Light weight is key, compact/comfortable, and a really good drag. The NASCI in a 1000 is a great choice, if you could find a good deal on a left over CI4, that would be sweet too.

IMHO, 20 lb braid is way overkill. You’ll get way more bites and land just as many fish with 6lb Suffix mono and a 6 lb mono or fluorocarbon snell. The more lively and free swimming up off the bottom your leech is, the more success you’ll have.

[Lowrance Fishburn]

You’re probably right about the 1000 size reel but I’ve got an extra 2500 already so I’ll have to think about that purchase. I prefer the braided mainline as its zero stretch and just such tough stuff, great for hook sets and never really worrying about. I’ve never had issues with fish spooking from a braided mainline with a long enough flouro leader. Aside from buoyancy are there any other advantages to mono mainline when rigging? A bit more stealthy perhaps? Don’t get me wrong I’ve done a fair amount of rigging I’ve just always used a jig or cranking rod and never had a dedicated setup.

[RavYak]

Walleyedude's recommendation for the G. Loomis GLX WRR9000S is exactly what you want and by far the best rod for this style. This rod is in a class above other options although there is probably a St. Croix tournament series on par for action (and price).

I never even realized a rod could act the way this one does until I owned mine. You can feel the walleye bite and they will swim around with it until you feel like setting the hook, it is crazy that a rod with so much flex can provide such great sensitivity. I also use mine for trout fishing as well and it works great for casting light lures and lots of flex to fight the fish with.

I also use a 1000 series reel, a CI4+, but I too prefer braid. I use 10 lb super slick power pro on this reel and it works great. I tie on 8 lb fluoro line as a leader and if I really want to go finesse I use 3X fluoro tippet (8.5 lb but only 0.008 in dia, same as 4-6 lb mono/fluoro line).

This is a wicked setup and has numerous applications such as light jigging, lindy rig, drop shot and casting small lures (spoons, rapalas etc for trout). You can also use the reel on other rods for heavier jigging, lures etc and it is perfect for ice fishing as well. If you don't own a 1000 series, I guarantee you it is worth the investment and that it will become one of your main reels.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Lowrance Fishburn

You’re probably right about the 1000 size reel but I’ve got an extra 2500 already so I’ll have to think about that purchase. I prefer the braided mainline as its zero stretch and just such tough stuff, great for hook sets and never really worrying about. I’ve never had issues with fish spooking from a braided mainline with a long enough flouro leader. Aside from buoyancy are there any other advantages to mono mainline when rigging? A bit more stealthy perhaps? Don’t get me wrong I’ve done a fair amount of rigging I’ve just always used a jig or cranking rod and never had a dedicated setup.

Some day, give it try, I think you’ll much prefer the 1000.

I went through a phase where I stubbornly insisted on rigging with braid. It took me a couple years of being consistently out rigged by my tournament partner that always used mono, and several times going out fishing with a few of the best rig fisherman I know (all of them using mono), and getting absolutely humbled, before I made the switch back to mono.

My success rate went WAY up. I’ll never rig with braid again. I think there’s a lot more to it than the line visibility. It’s the subtleness, and I actually think the lack of sensitivity that makes mono work better. If you feel them, they feel you. It’s a really fine line (no pun intended) between the sensitivity you need to detect the bites and turning those bites into hook ups. The smaller diameter 6lb mono is much more supple and has a lot less resistance in the water, it makes a big difference in my experience.

[EZM]

Interesting perspectives on line for rigging and bouncing.

I run braid because I want superior feel. Every bump, twitch and touch is trnasmitted very well through braid.

I spooled up 15 or 20lb braid mainline (power pro) and I run a long fluoro leader for this application.

I think you made the perfect choices there .....

I should say, I have a high end Loomis I sometimes use, with a baitcaster, but, the really small eyelets drive me nuts ....... the line flips over easily ........ so I'm back to my St.Croix and Spinning reel for my go to combo.

Not to say the Loomis isn't an outstanding rod, it's the eyelet thing I can't get over.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by EZM

Interesting perspectives on line for rigging and bouncing.

I run braid because I want superior feel. Every bump, twitch and touch is trnasmitted very well through braid.

I spooled up 15 or 20lb braid mainline (power pro) and I run a long fluoro leader for this application.

Comparing rigging and bouncing is like comparing football and hockey in my opinion. There really is no comparison in either the technique or the rod/reel setup.

I use braid for bouncing. Generally 10lb Power Pro Super Slick. It’s a reaction bite, but sensitivity to feel bottom, feel the spinner vibrate, and feel those short strikes is really important. Bottom line though, bites are generally bites, you’re not really “finessing” them. The feel is more about bottom contact and being in the zone than the bites themselves.

I also use braid for jigging (8lb Power Pro Super Slick, 6 or 8 lb fluoro leader) where you’re reacting to the bite by setting the hook. There it’s all about sensitivity and an instant reaction.

In both cases, I don’t feel the need to go beyond 10lb braid. Breaking strength actually far exceeds 8-10 lbs in my experience, so much so that it’s nearly impossible to break off 8 lb braid, you pretty much have to either cut It or straighten a hook to free a snag. No issues with pike bite offs either. I like the smaller diameter for more sensitivity and less resistance in the water, especially with light jigs.

Rigging is a whole different animal. It’s so subtle in nature, it’s not a reaction on the anglers part, there’s no immediate hook set. It’s all about feel and allowing that fish to take the bait and swim off with it before it realizes there’s anything wrong. Often times I’d feel the bite with braid, but I’d feed the bite only to come up empty wayyyy too often. I was “bumping” them. They felt me and spit the bait. The mono smoothed things out and I got more bites and my hookup rate went wayyy up. It may not be the same for everyone, or even from one lake to another, but try it, you might be pleasantly surprised.

[RavYak]

EZM not all Loomis rods have small eyelets. The WRR9000 series mentioned has normal size eyelets that are really neat. They are made out of a titanium alloy and are flexible with memory so that they can be bumped/bent quite noticeably and spring back to original shape (they call them recoil guides).

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by RavYak

EZM not all Loomis rods have small eyelets. The WRR9000 series mentioned has normal size eyelets that are really neat. They are made out of a titanium alloy and are flexible with memory so that they can be bumped/bent quite noticeably and spring back to original shape (they call them recoil guides).

I know this is too late but those guides are only good if you have mono, they are super loud if you’re running braid. I had an nrx with those guides and hated it because of those guides, got rid of it after one weekend of fishing. If they had Fuji inserts in them they would be good, but with that much flex I imagine the inserts would break or pop out.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I know this is too late but those guides are only good if you have mono, they are super loud if you’re running braid. I had an nrx with those guides and hated it because of those guides, got rid of it after one weekend of fishing. If they had Fuji inserts in them they would be good, but with that much flex I imagine the inserts would break or pop out.

Depends on the braid.

With original Power Pro, yep, they're loud, anything is loud with that stuff though lol.

With the new Power Pro Super Slick, they're silent. You'd never notice the difference from mono or fluorocarbon.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Comparing rigging and bouncing is like comparing football and hockey in my opinion. There really is no comparison in either the technique or the rod/reel setup.

I use braid for bouncing. Generally 10lb Power Pro Super Slick. It’s a reaction bite, but sensitivity to feel bottom, feel the spinner vibrate, and feel those short strikes is really important. Bottom line though, bites are generally bites, you’re not really “finessing” them. The feel is more about bottom contact and being in the zone than the bites themselves.

I also use braid for jigging (8lb Power Pro Super Slick, 6 or 8 lb fluoro leader) where you’re reacting to the bite by setting the hook. There it’s all about sensitivity and an instant reaction.

In both cases, I don’t feel the need to go beyond 10lb braid. Breaking strength actually far exceeds 8-10 lbs in my experience, so much so that it’s nearly impossible to break off 8 lb braid, you pretty much have to either cut It or straighten a hook to free a snag. No issues with pike bite offs either. I like the smaller diameter for more sensitivity and less resistance in the water, especially with light jigs.

Rigging is a whole different animal. It’s so subtle in nature, it’s not a reaction on the anglers part, there’s no immediate hook set. It’s all about feel and allowing that fish to take the bait and swim off with it before it realizes there’s anything wrong. Often times I’d feel the bite with braid, but I’d feed the bite only to come up empty wayyyy too often. I was “bumping” them. They felt me and spit the bait. The mono smoothed things out and I got more bites and my hookup rate went wayyy up. It may not be the same for everyone, or even from one lake to another, but try it, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I usually run 10-14' feet of mono/fluoro when rigging (unless I'm using a complete slide thru set up of some sort that requires a longer top shot).

I guess it depends on what/how you are presenting ...

I can see how using mono could be used - but not sure I understand the advantage as super slick provides less resistance compared to mono and gives you superior feel.

And, it's more like "what's on the reel" for the rod I want to use sometimes too. You can only put so many rods in the locker on my boat without it becoming a sht show .... lol

I get about 7-8 rods in my "16 tube" rod locker without it becoming a hasle.

I could pack in 12, but then I gotta arrange them properly before the trip and play tetrus.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by EZM

I usually run 10-14' feet of mono/fluoro when rigging (unless I'm using a complete slide thru set up of some sort that requires a longer top shot).

I guess it depends on what/how you are presenting ...

I can see how using mono could be used - but not sure I understand the advantage as super slick provides less resistance compared to mono and gives you superior feel.

And, it's more like "what's on the reel" for the rod I want to use sometimes too. You can only put so many rods in the locker on my boat without it becoming a sht show .... lol

I get about 7-8 rods in my "16 tube" rod locker without it becoming a hasle.

I could pack in 12, but then I gotta arrange them properly before the trip and play tetrus.

I don't think you and I are talking the same language when we're talking "rigging". I can't picture your setup. Is the weight fixed or sliding on the main line? Snell length is always a variable, I try to keep it shorter unless the fish absolutely force me to go longer, fishing with a 10'+ snell is a pain.

The advantage is the subtlety - lack of visibility, slow movement, and the "right" amount of feel. I hear you, believe me, I was you, I railed against it too. Seemed completely illogical to me, BUT, experience and watching others eventually changed my mind.

I'm spoiled, I can have a couple dozen or more rods at the ready at all times lol.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

With the new Power Pro Super Slick, they're silent. You'd never notice the difference from mono or fluorocarbon.

Yup.

I use super slick for almost everything. Quieter and casts farther. I only use regular power pro if I need extra abrasion resistance (river, sturgeon, musky, fishing around reefs etc).

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

I don't think you and I are talking the same language when we're talking "rigging". I can't picture your setup. Is the weight fixed or sliding on the main line? Snell length is always a variable, I try to keep it shorter unless the fish absolutely force me to go longer, fishing with a 10'+ snell is a pain.

The advantage is the subtlety - lack of visibility, slow movement, and the "right" amount of feel. I hear you, believe me, I was you, I railed against it too. Seemed completely illogical to me, BUT, experience and watching others eventually changed my mind.

I'm spoiled, I can have a couple dozen or more rods at the ready at all times lol.

I'm not so much rallying against other than trying to learn and understand it. Anything I can do to improve my experience - I'm open to. My way is definitely not the only way. I am not a tournament pro but I can usually scratch out some results when the going gets tough by switching stuff up and moving around. Rigging is a great way when fish get finicky.

When I think of rigging it can be a hook (or hook harness) and your bait that could be threaded through a egg sinker (or bullet) with a stop at each end (or no stop at all) for a sturgeon pickup, or floating bottom bait presentation, or drifting a minnow, etc...(similar to Texas rigging)

It could be a floating jig head trailing (36"-60" of mono) to a sinking jig head on the that your drift fish, cast and bump, or even slow troll. Not sure if this has a name, just tied it up one day and killed some walleye like a champ and been going back to it ever since.

It could be the traditional drop shot type, etc.. etc...

Either way, usually these go onto my rods with a mono or fluoro leader at the business end (top shot or long leader).

My thoughts are (were) - it's a "finesse" presentation, so invisibility of your "natural" presentation lends itself to mono/fluoro - never honestly thought about it any other way.

Here's a picture of one as described I tied up ....(the bumps are adjustable for length to freely slide to whatever length you want) ..

[Timothy]

G gloomis nrx is you have a big budget
Fenwick elite tech walleye if smaller budget

I honestly like the elite tech almost as much as the loomis.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by EZM

I'm not so much rallying against other than trying to learn and understand it. Anything I can do to improve my experience - I'm open to. My way is definitely not the only way. I am not a tournament pro but I can usually scratch out some results when the going gets tough by switching stuff up and moving around. Rigging is a great way when fish get finicky.

When I think of rigging it can be a hook (or hook harness) and your bait that could be threaded through a egg sinker (or bullet) with a stop at each end (or no stop at all) for a sturgeon pickup, or floating bottom bait presentation, or drifting a minnow, etc...(similar to Texas rigging)

It could be a floating jig head trailing (36"-60" of mono) to a sinking jig head on the that your drift fish, cast and bump, or even slow troll. Not sure if this has a name, just tied it up one day and killed some walleye like a champ and been going back to it ever since.

It could be the traditional drop shot type, etc.. etc...

Either way, usually these go onto my rods with a mono or fluoro leader at the business end (top shot or long leader).

My thoughts are (were) - it's a "finesse" presentation, so invisibility of your "natural" presentation lends itself to mono/fluoro - never honestly thought about it any other way.

Here's a picture of one as described I tied up ....(the bumps are adjustable for length to freely slide to whatever length you want) ..

If I'm "rigging", my setup will look like this -

6lb or 8lb (mostly 6lb) mono main line, slide on a tungsten bullet sinker or lindy walking sinker, 1/8 - 1/2 oz depending on depth and conditions (I go as light as possible), followed by a small bead, then tied to a very small barrel swivel, followed by a 4-10' mono or fluorocarbon snell, with #6 or #8 baitholder hook, tied on with a snell knot. You can add a bead in front of the hook, add a colored hook, etc... the possibilities are endless. Drag it around at about 0.5 mph. Simple, but pretty precise.

The line is free to slide out through the weight indefinitely. When you feel the bite, you allow the fish to take the line. When you decide the time is right, you close the bail, reel up the slack until you feel the fish, and set the hook (not Bob Izumi style, just a solid sweep of the rod tip). You want to find the balance between making sure they've taken the hook, and waiting too long that they're deeply hooked. It's always changing, but with some experience, you'll figure it out for the bite you're on and be able to get it right most of the time.

If I'm rigging, it's because the fish are neutral to negative, otherwise, I'd likely be jigging or doing something else that covers more water and triggers active fish. Fish in that mood, at least in my opinion, want slow and subtle. The bait should move, but just gently, it's got to be a really easy meal, any erratic or sharp/fast movements will turn them off. I think the mono helps immensely with that vs braid. I also think mono transmits a lot less info to the fish, and if they're really finicky, the slightest little thing will cause them to spit the bait. It takes a while to get your "feel" calibrated back to mono, but you'll figure it out with some time.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

If I'm "rigging", my setup will look like this -

6lb or 8lb (mostly 6lb) mono main line, slide on a tungsten bullet sinker or lindy walking sinker, 1/8 - 1/2 oz depending on depth and conditions (I go as light as possible), followed by a small bead, then tied to a very small barrel swivel, followed by a 4-10' mono or fluorocarbon snell, with #6 or #8 baitholder hook, tied on with a snell knot. You can add a bead in front of the hook, add a colored hook, etc... the possibilities are endless. Drag it around at about 0.5 mph. Simple, but pretty precise.

The line is free to slide out through the weight indefinitely. When you feel the bite, you allow the fish to take the line. When you decide the time is right, you close the bail, reel up the slack until you feel the fish, and set the hook (not Bob Izumi style, just a solid sweep of the rod tip). You want to find the balance between making sure they've taken the hook, and waiting too long that they're deeply hooked. It's always changing, but with some experience, you'll figure it out for the bite you're on and be able to get it right most of the time.

If I'm rigging, it's because the fish are neutral to negative, otherwise, I'd likely be jigging or doing something else that covers more water and triggers active fish. Fish in that mood, at least in my opinion, want slow and subtle. The bait should move, but just gently, it's got to be a really easy meal, any erratic or sharp/fast movements will turn them off. I think the mono helps immensely with that vs braid. I also think mono transmits a lot less info to the fish, and if they're really finicky, the slightest little thing will cause them to spit the bait. It takes a while to get your "feel" calibrated back to mono, but you'll figure it out with some time.

That's pretty close to how I bottom bounce.

When fish are negative and spooky, I tie up a long mono (or fluoro) onto a SMALL snelled hook (sometimes a tandem like the picture but small of course)

Then I will run a bead, and small blade OR if they are super negative, no blade at all and might run a micro corky or tiny spin n glow.

I put a tiny bead (as a stop) above the presentation, thread a bullet or egg, and run more line out to a chain swivel and onto my swivel snap on the braid - this ends up being 10'-12' if the fish are sensitive.
So pretty close.

I usually start small, and not to LOUD with to much flash or too much vibration when they are being difficult. Just enough to get some movement to present to them. The subtler, the better on these tough days.

Or any day when the wind seems to be out of the south east and the barometric pressure falling and the weather is cooling off. Usually stay home on these days but can't always do that.

This bouncing produces more fish on those day compared to guys rolling with convectional jewelry casting or jigging all day and coming up blank.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by EZM

That's pretty close to how I bottom bounce.

When fish are negative and spooky, I tie up a long mono (or fluoro) onto a SMALL snelled hook (sometimes a tandem like the picture but small of course)

Then I will run a bead, and small blade OR if they are super negative, no blade at all and might run a micro corky or tiny spin n glow.

I put a tiny bead (as a stop) above the presentation, thread a bullet or egg, and run more line out to a chain swivel and onto my swivel snap on the braid - this ends up being 10'-12' if the fish are sensitive.
So pretty close.

I usually start small, and not to LOUD with to much flash or too much vibration when they are being difficult. Just enough to get some movement to present to them. The subtler, the better on these tough days.

Or any day when the wind seems to be out of the south east and the barometric pressure falling and the weather is cooling off. Usually stay home on these days but can't always do that.

This bouncing produces more fish on those day compared to guys rolling with convectional jewelry casting or jigging all day and coming up blank.

Interesting setup for sure. Slow and subtle does seem to be the key for negative fish.

“Bottom Bouncing” to me is something completely different. It’s pulling a spinner rig/harness attached to a 1-3 oz L shaped “bottom bouncer” weight at 1-1.5mph. It’s much more of a reaction bite and you’re covering water to find active fish.

[RavYak]

Sorry to cut in but long story short is every top end walleye fisherman (tournament angler, hardcore recreational angler etc) knows you need to slow things down with a finesse presentation when fish are negative.

You can Lindy rig, drop shot, ned rig, slow death rig, micro jig, bottom bounce with no blade etc(effectively making a poor version of Lindy rig in my eyes) as options (more as well).

All of these finesse presentations have one thing in common (other than the couple bottom bouncer styles which require a but more backbone) and that being that you want a rod that is super sensitive and lighter action to be able to feel the fish bite without them realizing they are soon to be hooked which is what brings us back to the original thread intent.

I am a minimalist because I fish out of a kayak but if I am taking part in a walleye tournament(in kayak) I would have 4 rods rigged up with me. My light action finesse rod. Crankbait trolling rod. Bottom bouncing rod. Jigging rod. These are the style of rods I believe every good walleye angler should have at his disposal as they all have some different attributes(more basic fisherman can get away with 2 rods, lighter and heavier but give up a bit for specific techniques). Then if you want to get into tournament fishing you just get more of the above rods so you can rig up your favourites so dont need to retie lines when changing lure/technique.

[Lowrance Fishburn]

So for what it's worth I was very pleased with the feel and performance of the St. Croix Eyecon riggin rod I picked up and used last weekend. The tip is very sensitive while not being too stiff and there is enough backbone for a ML rod for bigger fish for sure. Hook sets were a dream as I could reel down into the fish after letting out line and really feel the subtle tension increasing and then set the hook with enough flex in the rod to not rip it out of the fish's mouth. Didn't drop many fish all week and the ones I did were not the rods fault lol. Thanks for all the opinions and input, greatly appreciated.

[ab_hunter]

I own Nasci reels, and cannot recommend them. The Daiwa BG is a far better reel for the money. The sizing is different so just beware but I am sure they make something comparable to a size 1000 Shimano. You can get a BG off Amazon, two day shipping.