Hiker seeking advise about trap lines

my2rotties · #1 12-07-2010, 09:22 PM

In light of the story that hit the media about a hikers dog being strangled in a trap line, up on Powderface trail. The media has not really released much info of course, and me being a resident of K country with my dogs, I am little freaked out. I am a local, and as all locals do, we hike with our dogs off lead all over the back country. I don't want this to be a peeing match about leashing or not leashing dogs, or if trappers are horrible human beings...

What I do want to know, is how to educate myself on knowing where trap lines are and how to check to avoid them. I was not aware that trapping was allowed to be honest, and that was already a shock to me. Is it normal for trap lines to be laid so close to busy hiking trails?

Also, if my worst nightmare unfolded before me... how do I get my dog out of a snare? Is there a tool I should carry along just in case? Are my dogs dead meat if they get snared? I am certain this would never happen, but because I know nothing about trapping, I am freaked out.

I live in K country, so I encounter grizzlies, black bears and bountiful amounts of cougars very regularly with my dogs. I know how to deal with these situations and my dogs are trained to stick beside me in these situation... of course I have the bear spray and hunting knife... which gives you a false sense of security in case poop hits the fan.

Sorry to be asking questions in this fashion, but I figured it would be best to hear from trappers in this situation.

Thanks very much for any info and insight to help myself and other hikers that reside in my area.

Diana

steve · #2 12-07-2010, 09:29 PM

snares are made of aircraft cable, not sure what would be best used to cut cable. A tool similiar to sidecutters.

my2rotties · #3 12-07-2010, 09:34 PM

I guess I should post a link to the story...

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alber...-16441666.html

my2rotties · #4 12-07-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve

snares are made of aircraft cable, not sure what would be best used to cut cable. A tool similiar to sidecutters.

How do you get an animal out of a snare yourself? Is the snare designed to kill them quickly, where there would be little or no chance of saving my dogs? Do you ever come across live animals in snares? I apologize for the questions, but this is the first time I have been fearful of anything out in K country. I would rather know the hard truth, rather then it be sugar coated.

foxracing_23 · #5 12-07-2010, 09:53 PM

If you are with your dogs and dont leave them, like the people in the story did overnight there will be very minimal harm to your dog. a snare is a piece of cable, not a foot clamp trap (whatever they are called), that will wrap around the animal and tighten as it tries to run.I am not a trapper but im sure im on the right track. If this happened you would simply have to loosen the wire from around them.

smith88 · #6 12-07-2010, 09:59 PM

Talk to your local Fish and Wildlife office about where there are traplines in your area. Fish and Wildlife, in my opinion, should be warning people about traplines in the K country better. It was very tragic what happened to the dog and could have been handled better by all parties.

my2rotties · #7 12-07-2010, 10:09 PM

Thanks for the info guys. Again, the media makes things way worse then they actually are. I would never leave my dogs under any circumstance. From reading the story, it sounds like the cable would not come off the dead dog and bolt cutters had to be used. So I guess in most cases the trapper has to come shoot the animal that is snared right? I am just concerned about not being able to free my dogs, if something happened and watch them die a horrible death.

With a trap line so close to trails I would worry about coming across an injured upset live animal, or a predator feeding on one that is trapped. I just assumed all the multi use hiking trails would be off limits to trapping. I guess you learn something new every day.

dave35 · #8 12-07-2010, 10:17 PM

Diana, traplines don't need to scare you. If, worst case seniro, one of your dogs did ever walk into a snare, the first thing to rember is to keep it calmb. As long as your dog does not panic and throw his wieght into the cable he can't hurt himself, no need to cut the cable just work the little catch with your hand and he's free to go. Dave

my2rotties · #9 12-07-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave35

Diana, traplines don't need to scare you. If, worst case seniro, one of your dogs did ever walk into a snare, the first thing to rember is to keep it calmb. As long as your dog does not panic and throw his wieght into the cable he can't hurt himself, no need to cut the cable just work the little catch with your hand and he's free to go. Dave

Thanks Dave... this is really good to know.

Albertadiver · #10 12-07-2010, 11:27 PM

Hi Dianna,

I just want to compliment you on seeking rational responses to increase your knowledge.

This was a sad situation all around, but the sensationalism surrounding it has really muddied the waters. Our black lab and us spend a considerable amount of time in K-country as well. We all want to be able to use the area safely, and be able to enjoy it!

Iron Brew · #11 12-07-2010, 11:45 PM

While I am not a trapper, I did take the course as offered by the Alberta Trappers Association. I'd recommend anybody interested (from self education to actual trapping) take the course. It was informative, and very focused on ethics.

I'm guessing the snare was cut as the animal had frozen around the catch. I've hiked with my dog, and I have no concerns. I'll take my next young pup out when that time comes too. My old boy is past hiking with me...

Bushmaster · #12 12-08-2010, 06:43 AM

You could buy a decent set of cable cutters...just the size of a pair of pliers.....so they would easily fit in a pocket. And also if you could get someone to show you an actually snare with a lock so you could see how they function...this would help you understand what you would need to do to loosen a snare lock.

And I have never snared a dog but have been told that most dogs won't fight a snare...they just think they are tied up.....hard enough to set the lock tight enough.

dgl1948 · #13 12-08-2010, 06:47 AM

Quote:

As long as your dog does not panic and throw his wieght into the cable he can't hurt himself, no need to cut the cable just work the little catch with your hand and he's free to go. Dave

As above unless it was a power snare as required by law in some places. Then the spring has to be realeased.

my2rotties · #14 12-08-2010, 08:06 AM

I really appreciate people taking the time to answer my questions

I will google a power snare. This is very difficult for me to read about, due to how I feel about trapping and snaring. I will get some good cable cutters to bring along, better to be safe then sorry... I am out there so much my chances of encountering things increases substantially of course. I am just glad I learned of this new potential issue, since I had no idea. The owners of the dog that died out there should be commended for coming forward. It may save other dogs from the same fate. I have no clue as to why they did not find him right away, since it seems it was not difficult to do so the following day. I also don't know why the dog strangled itself to death... is this a common thing on trap lines... the animals choke themselves to death?

One question that has not been answered. is the proximity of trap lines to hiking trails. Perhaps F&W should have educational seminars or a website to show trap lines and things of this nature. I don't think I could endure a course on trapping, due to my personal feelings on this practice.

Any ways, thank you for all the answers. Whatever information I glean from this topic, I will pass onto others...

Donkey Oatey · #15 12-08-2010, 08:17 AM

A snare is made to choke the animal. It goes around their neck, they pull and pull and pull making the snare tighter and tighter. There is a little locking mechanism that will not allow the snare to loosen. In wild animals death occurs in a matter of a couple minutes. It is a poor snare set or unlucky if a trapper has to shoot any animal in a snare.

Hopefully you never run in to the situation and from the sounds of it you will be prepared.

Not sure if F&W need to do more educating as there are a lot of people out there that if they knew exactly where the trap line was they would go and mess with it. I think more of out of sight out of mind is their thinking.

my2rotties · #16 12-08-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

A snare is made to choke the animal. It goes around their neck, they pull and pull and pull making the snare tighter and tighter. There is a little locking mechanism that will not allow the snare to loosen. In wild animals death occurs in a matter of a couple minutes. It is a poor snare set or unlucky if a trapper has to shoot any animal in a snare.

Hopefully you never run in to the situation and from the sounds of it you will be prepared.

Not sure if F&W need to do more educating as there are a lot of people out there that if they knew exactly where the trap line was they would go and mess with it. I think more of out of sight out of mind is their thinking.

It scares me to know I only have a couple of minutes to get them out of a snare... I refuse to be put back from doing what I love the most out of fear though. If I stayed home out of fear, I would never go out in the back country... I am glad I joined the forums to learn about this, and be better prepared. Thanks so much.

turbo mulcher · #17 12-08-2010, 09:11 AM

If a dog is caught in a snare you may have only seconds. The locking device used will pervent it from backing off. The only suggestion I have besides a leash would by a extra wide coller and maybe a bell for locating them.
I post my line but the areas are vast . If your pet is caught in a leghold trap (steel foot hold) they will not damage the foot. The new legal traps have a rubber jaw or a gap to allow blood flow.
A note on the " Ram Power Snares" they are instant. A wide belt around their neck might protect them. Map Town has all the RFMA's on maps.
A heads up ,there might be some illegal poachers that are trapping using snares and non certified traps . Beware. If you would like any information feel free to PM me.

Young Eldon · #18 12-08-2010, 09:25 AM

The only sure way to save a larger dog caught in a properly designed and set wolf snare would be to use cable cutting pliers quickly, as mentioned by Bushmaster. Good snare cable is very hard to cut with ordinary pliers or a Leatherman. If the dog has pulled hard enough on the snare, it will begin choking immediately and the dog will be dead in a minut or two. That's why these snares are considered humane!
Most Crown land outside of Provincial and Federal Parks is covered by traplines and hiking trails have little to do with it. Think multiple use.

my2rotties · #19 12-08-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo mulcher

If a dog is caught in a snare you may have only seconds. The locking device used will pervent it from backing off. The only suggestion I have besides a leash would by a extra wide coller and maybe a bell for locating them.
I post my line but the areas are vast . If your pet is caught in a leghold trap (steel foot hold) they will not damage the foot. The new legal traps have a rubber jaw or a gap to allow blood flow.
A note on the " Ram Power Snares" they are instant. A wide belt around their neck might protect them. Map Town has all the RFMA's on maps.
A heads up ,there might be some illegal poachers that are trapping using snares and non certified traps . Beware. If you would like any information feel free to PM me.

The dogs stay close to me, and don't go into the bush. They are lazy and stay on trails with me. It is no big deal for them to be in the bush, since I live out here. A snare 15 yards from a busy trail is pushing it though. I have not seen where the dog was killed, so I have no visual to help me with proximity and things of that nature.

I do not use collars, due to the issue with them getting snagged by anything. I also don't use bells, since they annoy the heck out of me, and I feel they promote curiosity from predators, rather then warn them we are approaching.

I also had no clue there are leg hold traps. wow!

Glad to be aware of these things, since I had no idea what so ever. I am certain I have not a single worry in the world, but better to be wiser, then be on the news with a broken heart. I love my dogs, they are my business partners and my best friends.

#20 12-08-2010, 11:27 AM

I do sympathize with you about your concern for your dogs.
So here some info that may set your mind at ease or maybe not.
First of all I have been a trapper. I have caught a dog before. It was
caught in a snare with a good lock and was intended to chock a coyote
or wolf.. The dog was a Brittany Spaniel. He just sat there was glad to see someone. I petted him and loosened the snare and he was free to go. But
he had been running loose away from home all alone. Most people do keep
track of their dogs but apparently this owner didn't. I hope he did go back home. I have never found a wolf or a coyote alive when caught in a
snare but a dog will not fight if he is used to being tied.
Next there are rules and regulations that trappers are suppossed to abide by.
They are required by law to put their lines at the boundaries with their trapline number on the sign. Late fall is trapping season so a lot of trappers are out there making sets. I would advise you to stay away from any registered trapline in trapping season.
You can go to the nearest F & Wl office and find out if the area you are planning to hike in is on a registered trapline and of so who owns it. If the area is not on registered trapline then if there are snares there somone is
poaching. It does happen. I caught a coyote once that had a length of clothesline wire imbeded in the flesh of him. Sad but true. Poachers do exist
everywhere. If you find a snare that is not on a reg'd trapline don't touch it but report it to F &WL. If you can and have a GPS get the exact location. Hopefully that poacher will get caught when he or she comes back to check.
So that's my view on this subject.
Wishing you a ver Merry Christmas.

noisy mouse · #21 12-08-2010, 11:59 AM

Though i havn't trapped for a few years now, i did catch a dog once - a beagle and my experience was the same as Rancher 49 - he just sat there and waited- though i think that the heavy leather collar did help him stay a bit more comfortable while in the snare.

Bushmaster · #22 12-08-2010, 12:20 PM

Rancher, I agree with most of what you've said. But you don't have to have a Registered trapline to set snares. I snare using Resident Trappers licence and no notification postings are required.

Albeit, my snares are set in a very rural area......

don · #23 12-08-2010, 07:29 PM

If it is a ram power snare the dog owner has to worry.

my2rotties · #24 12-08-2010, 08:01 PM

To be realistic, I have to say I have hiked hundreds of kilometers out in K country, and never saw traps, trappers or anything of the sort. I think I will shy away from anything just off of highway 66 and stay in K country closer to my house in west Bragg Creek. I will stick with what I know, and I always do in the winter months and explore more in the spring or fall months.

I was really freaked out by a dog dying in such a way, but my dogs stay on trails with me and are never out of my sight, unless we are on the forestry reserve land beside the house and it is MD of Rockyview property. They tend to run farther out there, since my property backs onto it and they know the area very well.

In my years of residing here, and hiking and chatting with other locals, I have never heard of a dog being snared before. I do now understand there are trappers, and trappers have been here much longer then just a couple of generations. Even though I don't agree with it personally, I see your points as to why you do it, and it makes sense. I am not going to make harsh judgment on people and trapping, which I have no clue to have the business to open my mouth.

Hopefully there is an update on the news story about this poor dog... so concerned hikers and pet owners can find out what had happened. From another thread on this forum, it seems that some people felt the trap lines were much too close to the hiking trails... but what do I know.

Thanks for your time and for being so polite to me.

Diana

Bushmaster · #25 12-08-2010, 08:21 PM

Diana, your attitude is very refreshing....

It's been a pleasure.

fjhoward · #26 12-08-2010, 09:34 PM

Hi Diana,
As mentioned by others (and I have caught a few dogs that were miles from home on their own and all were happy to see me) most dogs used to being tied up even a little bit will simply sit down and wait not fighting or even pulling the snare tight so all you have to do is slip the snare off and away you go. A ram power snare would be a different story but I would think/suspect if these are active hiking trails the trapper wouldn't be using them there. A simple $10.00 + or - set of cable cutters would be all you need to cut the cable and require very little effort to use. Other cutters can work but would be more expensive and you would have to check to see if they would actually cut cable as most won't.

Enjoy your hiking!

my2rotties · #27 12-08-2010, 09:52 PM

Another question that comes to mind. Do you mark the areas where the traps are? How do you find them? The reason I ask is, I sometimes see a tree or bush with a marker in it, and wonder why it is there. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it, and it is not really marking the trail that I am hiking on.

fjhoward · #28 12-08-2010, 11:01 PM

I think most do. I use either colored close pegs or flagging.

my2rotties · #29 12-09-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjhoward

I think most do. I use either colored close pegs or flagging.

Well, I think I have hiked along many traps lines or walked right past traps, without a single issue to myself or my dogs.

I always did wonder why there was a flag with no real rhyme or reason out there. So now I know I am relatively safe with the dogs, and need not worry. With the advise I was given here, I am better prepared for the unknown. I have no desire to touch anything, and at least I know to be mindful of what has always been out here.

I did for some reason think they closed that part of highway 66 at or around December 1 anyways, so hikers would have difficulty getting in there, unless they hiked for many kilometers to get to certain areas.

Thanks again.

sourdough doug · #30 12-09-2010, 10:54 AM

Sorry Rancher but lets get the correct info out there.. Registered traplines do not have to be marked. They can be but there is no law that I have seen. If so, would you mark boundaries every km. 100 meters, out in areas that birds hardly frequent ? Let's not put the idea in peoples heads that if you see no signs, that there are not traps....Discretion if required by all, all the time...
I just don't know either, if the F&W will give out all that much trapline info to anyone coming off the street. Do you want PETA crawling all over your line.