Would You Like To Be Able To Use A Dog To Track A Wounded Deer?

[thumper]

Ryan, he's from the Pine Ridge Kennels with Mike Pallotta out of Ontario. He was actually too big for his standards, - by far the biggest Pudelpointer I've ever seen (~85 pounds), but then I haven't seen too many others.

Sadly, you won't be seeing him work, after 14 years at my side his age caught up with him last July 31st and I had to make good on my promise to put him down while he still had his dignity. Toughest thing I've ever done.

Nahhhhhh I don't wound deer. they usually fall quickly...

[NCC]

I think blood trailing dogs are a great idea. I know a guy in South Texas that tracks close to a hundred deer a year. He uses dogs similar to a catahoula or Blue Lacey. His dogs will bay a wounded deer and allow him to get in for a finishing shot and will also find dead deer. They trail the blood and not the deer; therefore they don't run game unless it's wounded. If they can't find the blood, they will often be able to wind the dead animal and recover it.

This guy knows his stuff about tracking dogs - his book is worth the read.

http://www.born-to-track.com/john.htm


This is also interesting.

http://www.deersearch.org/

There is a guy in BC trying to get something going for tracking dogs in Canada but I forget his name.

[pitw]

So what about the conflict with other party's that have permission to use the land your wounded deer ran on. I'm talking about trapper's in particular as I have and I'm sure other's have set's out there that could/would be lethal to your dog's. On my home quarter that has only three little bushes somebody managed to "lose" two deer this fall. All of these bushes have snares in them so as to protect my chicken's from coyote's. Are we to be banned from trapping so that you can run your hound's out there.
Barry

[Vindalbakken]

I don't get it pitw. Folks can run their bird dogs right now. What is different if they are running tracking dogs.

I think that allowing dogs on a leash to be used to track wounded game is an idea that is long overdue.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by pitw

So what about the conflict with other party's that have permission to use the land your wounded deer ran on. I'm talking about trapper's in particular as I have and I'm sure other's have set's out there that could/would be lethal to your dog's. On my home quarter that has only three little bushes somebody managed to "lose" two deer this fall. All of these bushes have snares in them so as to protect my chicken's from coyote's. Are we to be banned from trapping so that you can run your hound's out there.
Barry

This is one reason I would liketo be able to use a tracking dog, but only on the leash.
A few years back one of my neighbour's dogs came home with a snare on its neck - they rattled on about phoning nthe cops, the SPCA, the wildlife, everybody UNTIL I told them that dammed dog was running loose on a registered trapline ( across the river) and he should not have been left to run.
Place got pretty quiet pretty quick.
the didn't get it, they figured there should be a law - I told them there was , dogs are not allowed to run in town limits, how did the danged thing get OUT of town limits in the first place!!!

Cat

[pitw]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I don't get it pitw. Folks can run their bird dogs right now. What is different if they are running tracking dogs.

I think that allowing dogs on a leash to be used to track wounded game is an idea that is long overdue.

What if it run's into a power snare? Do you know how to release it. I also have wanted to use a dog for tracking but I learned a long time ago to look at an issue from many side's before making a decision. I'm not trying to be ignorant in any way but just asking legitament question's. Earlier on another post a guy wanted to let his dog's go after any bird's he saw and I thought the same thing. Trapping was one of the thing's that opened this country and has been under attack from many sides so I thought I would point this out. Sorry.

[fickell]

My two cents if I was on the next cut line over and out came a deer with a dog chasing behind it your dog would not be making it home then what?

[pitw]

Originally Posted by fickell

My two cents if I was on the next cut line over and out came a deer with a dog chasing behind it your dog would not be making it home then what?

I'm assuming that if you survive you'll be heading for court.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

It is common practice to hunt big game with dogs in Ontario so I guess it's not unethical where it's legal.

Exactly, well said.

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I don't get it pitw. Folks can run their bird dogs right now. What is different if they are running tracking dogs.
I think that allowing dogs on a leash to be used to track wounded game is an idea that is long overdue.

I agree, you can use them for birds and cougar, so why not other species?Would I use dogs? No (we dont have any), but I am not against those that would/do.

[fickell]

Originally Posted by pitw

I'm assuming that if you survive you'll be heading for court.

I will bet you are from the city because here in rural alberta if your dog is loose and not on your land in most cases hes not coming home chasing livestock or wild game is not tolerated

[pitw]

Originally Posted by fickell

I will bet you are from the city because here in rural alberta if your dog is loose and not on your land in most cases hes not coming home chasing livestock or wild game is not tolerated

Well I'll bet you are not the best better in the world because you lost your's. I will expect a million dollar cheque in the mail. Born and raised 3 hour's east of Edmonton. If you are hunting on someone else's land [you never said you weren't] how do you know it isn't the landowner's dog out with him looking for livestock. You shoot someone's $5,000 cattle dog you may not survive and I might add shouldn't as we don't need you in the gene pool. I would suggest that you look at the title of this thread. I am only trying to point out some of the problem's I can see with trailing wounded game and have already stated that I have wanted to at one time or another.

[BUD]

Dog on 30 ft leash in bush tracking game , dog goes one way hunter goes another , dog gets wrapped around tree , hunter tries to free dog by going round tree the other way , dog gets excited and goes the other way , now hes wrapped around 2 trees , hunter tries again to unwrap dog , dog runs behind hunter , leash grabs him behind the knees as dog runs around another tree , hunter is now bound to the same tree as the dog as dog keeps running around the tree tightning the leash , hunter now trapped like dog , and the cell phone wont work , and the walkie talkie is in the truck with partner , haaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[roger]

i cant stand dogs, and have zero use for them personally...
but
I do firmly believe that a well trained dog handler should have the right to use one for the tracking purposes. i can also see how easy it would be to abuse this as well.
I would support those who have earned the right to manage a working animal. I have seen the jack russells working in Africa tracking and they are truly in there glory.
Ive also witnessed short haired terriers living large in cat/ bear hunt camps in BC.
these were not really pets at all, more like members of the hunt team.

[jaylow?]

if you go on you tube , you can look up some moose hunting in finland and norway and they use norwiegan elk hounds. looks awesome. id be one of the first to get a elk hound if they made it legal.

[Vindalbakken]

The use of elkhounds in Finland etc. is not the same thing as is being proposed here. Bud likely hasn't ever owned a dog with any training so he visualizes the comedic routine as being reality.
Dogs on leashes do not chase deer or livestock - unless they have a very fast handler. So fickell's worry is unfounded.
Dogs on leashes being used to track wounded game does not open any loopholes for abuse by folks having dogs running free in deer camp etc. Free dogs - bad. Leashed dogs - OK. Pretty simple for the dog owner and the CO to tell the difference.

[Frans]

Where I used to hunt you could get charged if you DIDN'T use your own TRAINED dog, or get somebody in that had a trained dog, to try and recover wounded game. Back in Europe that was... Same by the way for hunting waterfowl without a properly trained dog.

Back then, I started training my terrier to track wounded big game, and even at 6 months old she found a deer my cousin shot that had run into some thick spruce.

Frans

[gunman300]

Do the regulations not say that all reasonable means must be made to recover a downed animal? Seems to me that if you can't find it, using a dog that can is reasonable.

[NCC]

I think the regs say that you cannot be accompanied by a dog while hunting big game.

[Northern_Hunting_Mom]

Originally Posted by BUD

Dog on 30 ft leash in bush tracking game , dog goes one way hunter goes another , dog gets wrapped around tree , hunter tries to free dog by going round tree the other way , dog gets excited and goes the other way , now hes wrapped around 2 trees , hunter tries again to unwrap dog , dog runs behind hunter , leash grabs him behind the knees as dog runs around another tree , hunter is now bound to the same tree as the dog as dog keeps running around the tree tightning the leash , hunter now trapped like dog , and the cell phone wont work , and the walkie talkie is in the truck with partner , haaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Why in the world would you not follow the nose that knows?

If a person actually did an hour's research on something they spew drivel over, many here would have an informed opinion. Did you know Bud that the number one and two blood tracking dogs in Europe are the dachshund and Jagd terrier (the German terrier mentioned in an earlier post)? Not a 100 lb behemoth. Or that it is a special collar and stiff check cord is used? The check cord doesn't get tangled in heavy cover. Even poorly trained versatile dogs in Europe know the difference in the job expected of them when the tracking collar and CC is brought out. Calmness and determination settles in and the job required is known by both handler and dog. First rule of owning a hunting dog of any type and breed, trust your dog and its nose.

[Frans]

Yes! When I was training my german hunting terrier for this work, she'd be wild and rather uninterested. The one time I took her to work, she was completely different: all business, calm, determined. She sensed that this one was for real. We went to work in the thicket, and she pointed out blood and hair on a sapling, things she'd just blow by on a practice trail. We missed a hook in the trail on the first go-round, and I could feel that the dog was talking me for a hike. So I carried her back to the beginning and we started over. This time she didn't miss it and we found the deer, that was long dead. There was no way we'd ever have found that deer without the dog except by crawling the thicket in a pattern, and sheer luck.

I've been witness to a little dachshund following the trail of a wounded red stag. We had been on the trail for 30 minutes before the forester arrived with the dog and had progressed maybe 50 yards. The Forester and I hit the blood trail and we covered almost 5 km before we chased the wounded stag out of the bed. Several times I was convinced we were off the trail, but every time we found blood. We never got that deer, it was just too lightly wounded, and it wouldn't stop and turn to face the dog after the forester let it loose on the trail, as they often do. We walked back to the cabin. The dog showed up later that night, and slept for most of the following 36 hours or so.

Frans

Frans

[puphood1]

In BC a number of years ago I shot a buck in heavy timber about 50 miles from home and could not find him. I drove home that evening/night in the pouring rain and the next am I took back my GWP back to the area where it still was raining hard. The dog who knew how to track did find the old track and followed it for about 1/2 a mile as witnessed by the odd blood spots I saw unfortunatly we never recovered the deer. My point being at least I tried one more time in the recovery of a wounded animal. The acceptance of tracking wounded game animals with the use of dogs by other areas of Canada and the world only points to a lack of understanding of benefits in the recovery of wounded game.
As a note the german standard includes tracking of game in a couple of ways one of which is off leash and the is dog trained to bay at the side of the found downed animal after tracking it this is considered one of the most difficult tasks a dog can master.......puphood1

[Vindalbakken]

puphood1 have you ever heard of a bringsell? I think this is one of the most intriguing training routines I have heard of. The dog has a leather fob on its collar. It tracks the game and when the dead game is found it will grab hold of the bringsell and return to the handler. When the dog gets to the handler the handler knows dead game has been found, snaps on a lead and follows the dog back to the dead game. If the animal found is not dead the dog is expected to give tongue and hold the animal at bay till the handler/hunter can arrive and dispatch the animal.

[big-river]

I use my dog to track, especially on wounded bears.
It is a whole lot tougher to train a dog to track blood than you would think. Much harder. Most dogs would far rather run live game than look for a specific wounded animal.
I can see alot of hunters with dogs running game and not having alot of luck tracking ONE specific animal, wounded or not.
It really is a discipline.
Just my opinion.

[Tundra Monkey]

[QUOTE=roger;232959]i cant stand dogs, and have zero use for them personally...QUOTE]


There is nothing better than a well trained dog IMO....nothing worse than one that is not though.

Proud owner of 3 Karelian Bear Dogs....the 5yr old is a dream and the 2yr olds are a work in progress

Couldn't imagine sleeping on the tundra or in the mt's without one....much better waking up to a bark than the tearing of a tent.....Alberta's law about not having dogs with you when hunting big game will eventually cost someone their life one day if it hasn't already IMO.

McKinley came to us trained on bears....not cheap. Keeps them at 800 yrds or so and will definately let you know if there is one nearby.

We live a ways out of town and we play "hide-and-seek" with them and the kids. I send my little 5 year old off into the bush and have the dogs go find her......over in minutes....amazing. Hope I never need it for real.

I could go on and on with stories about them.....an important part of our family.

tm

[elkhunter11]

My two cents if I was on the next cut line over and out came a deer with a dog chasing behind it your dog would not be making it home then what?

Let me guess,you were shooting at the deer and didn't lead it enough.

[big-river]

I have shot many dogs on my land chasing deer. If your hound is chasing deer on my place, I WILL shoot it. If you have an issue with that, come on over and I WILL re-train your thinking too.
Tired of acreage owners and city folk thinking their dog has every right to come and run deer where-ever they want.
If your dog runs loose, it is at risk, and rightfully so.

Any wounded deer trailing needs to be done on leash.

[openseason]

I am partially color blind and have a very hard time distinguishing red from green.Not so much that it is on my drivers licence. Street lights are completely different. Archery hunting has proved quite challenging. I have started training my dog to trail. I have shot coyotes in fields then put my dog out at first blood in the snow.The coyote is dead in the field i know its dead and return with no gun. Just to be safe. If on a leash all he wants to do is pull. Off a leash he is very calm and trails the blood perfectly. Now do you think they will let me use them on tracking wounded big game?Regulations call it harassment.

[Ironcowboy]

I might be possibly opening a can of worms but the regs say

"be accompanied by a dog while hunting big game or allow a dog to pursue big game except when hunting cougar under the authority of a Cougar Licence, from December 1 to the last day of February (the winter season). "

So by the wording wouldn't it be legal if you lost the trail to take your gun back to camp and retrieve your dog? If you have no weapon you aren't hunting. If the animal isn't moving you aren't pursuing. It would be similar to the time a guy in my group of hunting friends got his moose in the a.m. We can't hunt with quads in the morning, but after making sure moose wasn't getting up again. Walked back to camp, put the guns away. Took the quads back for retrieval, it then became legal.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Ironcowboy

So by the wording wouldn't it be legal if you lost the trail to take your gun back to camp and retrieve your dog? If you have no weapon you aren't hunting. .

I wouldn't count on that interpretation. If someone is pushing bush for you they are hunting whether they are carrying a rifle or not.

Secondly, pursuing a wounded animal without your rifle is, IMHO, unwise. What are you going to do if you come upon the animal and it's still alive? You need to be able to finish it off, and no, we don't want to see you lunging at it with your folding Buck while it tries to get up and escape.