New Bighorn information meetings

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

Ya, you went to a government information session and got involved and educated alright! .

And guess what, not everyone against this are in the atv crowd, give your head a shake. Government’s love sheople like you...

Careful Dave will accuse you of being a mentally I'll homophobic bully if you have a different perspective than him...

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by ReconWilly

Careful Dave will accuse you of being a mentally I'll homophobic bully if you have a different perspective than him...

You guys are so defensive!

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

You guys are so defensive!

"You guys" ?!? thanks

Oh boy....now it's on!

Hahaha "feelings"...

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by ReconWilly

"You guys" ?!? thanks

Oh boy....now it's on!

Hahaha "feelings"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb6OpRfyLFo

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by ReconWilly

"You guys" ?!? thanks

Oh boy....now it's on!

Hahaha "feelings"...

Sorry. Your handle had me thinking male.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Jim Blake

Nailed it!! In the proposed plan sure there are some things that need clarification and tweaking, but my view is it is on the right track to getting some semblance of order in the West Country.

It will be interesting to see what the CBC Reporter's article will look like. They sure seem to know how to pick their people to interview for maximum dramatic effect.

I very far away from being an NDP fan, but I sure see the UCP playing Politics (as all party's do) to the max and stirring the emotion pot . Ergo anything proposed by the NDP is bad and the UCP are going to fix everything up to a T if they are elected. For me I am disgusted with that type of Politics.

Remember this plan has been in the works for a very long time, prepared by the Beaurocrats in Edmonton, not a specific Political Party.

"not a specific party"

you're joking right?

how many coffee shop/legislature meetings did these "bureaucrats" have with Y2Y prior to the NDP being in power?

let alone the environment minister and premier themselves?

do tell

[ehrgeiz]

Originally Posted by Masterchief

Edmonton, AB (February 4, 2019) – United Conservatives issued the following statement regarding the last day of the NDP government’s last-minute information session:

“The NDP has lost all credibility on their Bighorn plan.

“Today marks the last day of the NDP’s last minute information sessions on their rushed Bighorn plan, a plan impacted by a consultation process that has been flawed from the start.

"As we have said all along, a future United Conservative Government would ensure that the future of the Bighorn and the North Saskatchewan Regional Plan actually works for Albertans and is decided by Albertans including those that live, work, and recreate in this area.

"We will not accept a rammed through process that has been rejected by the communities. The UCP would reverse changes the NDP ram through in the lead up to the election. The NDP have shown that they are out of touch with the Albertans who call Bighorn country their home.

“There were only a few days’ notice for these meetings, which the NDP previously tried to cancel. NDP Environment Minister Shannon Phillips lost any remaining trust on this issue when she was caught lying multiple times in an attempt to justify cancelling the meetings.

“Any attempt by a desperate NDP government to rush through this process at lightning speed and make decisions of this magnitude just before the election is suspect and completely unacceptable for those concerned about the impact on their jobs, livelihoods, and recreation areas.

“All Albertans are in favour of maintaining our majestic wilderness.

That being said, we need to remember people’s livelihoods and lifestyles are at stake, and decisions about the region are much too important to get wrong."

https://unitedconservative.ca/Articl...PNews_Feb42019

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Heck yes!

I'm glad to see a formal position from the UCP on this. Man, I feel like the coming Provincial and Federal elections are the most important of my life.

Anyway back to the point: I've spent a lot of time in the Hummingbird area on hiking / horse trail and ATV trails and I just don't see the back-country catastrophe that some claim. Maybe other areas are worse? I don't know, but I'm not convinced we need this and I don't know why it is being rammed through prior to an election.

BTW, no wonder the Edmonton session was poorly attended. I would have gone if I had a clue it was happening. A couple days notice after a previous cancellation is insufficient. Regardless of where you stand on the proposal it's inarguable that the NDP is doing a terrible job on this matter and they should voluntarily defer any advancement or application until the next election is settled.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Jim Blake

Is it just enforcement people want? I didn't know such a Poll had been done. Please post with the Poll results.

What is a "perceived" abuse. Are you saying there are no issues in the West Country?

We know the handling of the procedures to date has been horrible.

I have very little knowledge of the Castle plan, what was promised, not delivered, changed etc..

We are dealing in this thread about the BIGHORN Plan.

Let's stick to the end result which is the proposed BIGHORN plan.

It's amazing how misinformation can affect people. My neighbors son works in Forestry (logging) and he came home to tell his Dad that the Govt. was going to shut down all the logging in the West Country and he would be out of a job. Do you think that is true?

castle plan, Livingstone and porcupine hills plan is extremely relevant.

do you think they did not have the AEP reps with clipboards writing down questions on the open house for those plans? they did the same thing. write down questions, nod, then ignore in the final plan.

so if you were not aware of this, alright, now you are. we are now educating those that have not witnessed lying shannon and her ways.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Jim Blake

Ok, it's all bad. No sense continuing. Enforcement is the only answer. If any of you three see a CBC camera please walk away. I'm done.

I guess this will play out sometime in the future in one form or another. Time will tell.

Not all bad.. Just 100% impossible to trust the clowns in charge today. This can wait. Anyone sees a camera speak up. I actually can not believe that ANYONE would trust the NDP to do anything. I have a outhouse that needs to be cleaned out and I wouldn't hire one of them to do it. A bunch of pathetic people doing a **** poor job. Let the UCP open this file and figure it out but for gods sake don't let the NDP do a bloody thing. Kinda like letting a certain GM of the Oilers sign a player to a contract the day before you are about to fire him. IT IS A BAD IDEA!

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by MrDave

Go to the information sessions. Its laid out right in front of you.
Don't like something, look into how to participate. Should have done it years ago, but you can try to deal with it like adults and get involved (and educated).

By the way people 2% of 100,000 people is 2000 bad users.

Before you start accusing people of being less educated than yourself maybe you should educate yourself on what has happened in the Castle and the Porcupines.

If you think just going to one of the information sessions enlightens you on everything the government has planned you could be missing out on the big picture.

Did you ask them what and all of the special interest groups they have consulted with? Then take that information and research what they are all about?

I take it from the way your posts read that you take them at face value and it validates what you personally want to happen and that’s fine.

Just don’t tell others that they are uneducated because they disagree with your stance because some of them have been previously educated on this very subject by the current government.

My belief is different from yours but I believe this is already a done deal with no actual consultation done with the users.
This will be exactly the same lip service with a ton of restrictions to come later.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

So, why not just increase enforcement with existing rules and regulations? Would that not accomplish what everyone is looking for?

I tell you what, enforcement works.
Just a few years ago in behind Phyllis Lake it was horrible with people making messes and not respecting the area.
With help from the lease holder, people turning in the slobs and regular enforcement it is a hundred times better out there.
If all the good users turned in the abusers and we had enough enforcement you bet it would make all the difference in the world.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by FQ2

What's with the insults?


Maybe there is something about the government not having meetings as they were being bullied and threatened.


We see it here on this post from you. Nice way too explain yourself and possibly change someone's mind.

If that was bullied and threatened to you, then you really need to get out of your moms basement. If I told you he was squinting at the computer while typing, that would probably make you pee yourself a bit.
Grow a pair of balls would you. So tired of the offended, threatened people on line these days. (This goes for all sides of any argument BTW)

[FQ2]

Easy tough guy......


Way too prove my point. Don't know how to change there minds, inform them, bring them over too your side......insult them. Call them names.


Here I'll give you an example: Jamie.......sounds like a fat chicks name. Your a fat chick right, with purple highlights in your hair. Right?


Have you been triggered Jamie?

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by FQ2

Easy tough guy......


Way too prove my point. Don't know how to change there minds, inform them, bring them over too your side......insult them. Call them names.


Here I'll give you an example: Jamie.......sounds like a fat chicks name. Your a fat chick right, with purple highlights in your hair. Right?


Have you been triggered Jamie?

Taking a firm stance for something you believe is not bullying or insulting as Shannon Phillips would have us believe. But nice try.

And I’m guessing Jamie is secure enough to laugh at your feeble insulting attempt. It takes thick skin to stand for your beliefs. And when there’s a lot at stake, sparks will fly.

[FQ2]

Being an asshat, is still being and asshat.


Understandbly so that emotions are invovled, some people just want what they think is right. No matter what. The set there minds in stone and cannot be moved. Don't trust this government but will trust the next elected government if it's your flavor.


All governments lie..that 's why the NDP is in power right now, everyone got tired of the last lying government.


Interesting discussion this.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by FQ2

Being an asshat, is still being and asshat.


Understandbly so that emotions are invovled, some people just want what they think is right. No matter what. The set there minds in stone and cannot be moved. Don't trust this government but will trust the next elected government if it's your flavor.


All governments lie..that 's why the NDP is in power right now, everyone got tired of the last lying government.


Interesting discussion this.

Not being a asshat in the least. I am neither for or against this proposal. I just want the election to happen first.

My comment was only directed at you feeling threatened and bullied. I am not a fan of *****s with no backbone and not enough self confidence to handle simple words. I guess if his simple comments were enough to TRIGGER you into screaming like you had been shot, then you are the one with the issue. Grow up will you. The real world is happening all around us and you are feeling like you are being threatened. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Need a hug?... No use for that attitude. As I said, grow a pair.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by FQ2

Being an asshat, is still being and asshat.


Understandbly so that emotions are invovled, some people just want what they think is right. No matter what. The set there minds in stone and cannot be moved. Don't trust this government but will trust the next elected government if it's your flavor.


All governments lie..that 's why the NDP is in power right now, everyone got tired of the last lying government.


Interesting discussion this.

i agree. you would think the NDP would think about why they are currently in power, and not lie to Albertans.

instead, they are doing the exact same thing to forward their political agenda.

i cant wait for them to suffer the same fate.

[FQ2]

I'm fine. My feeling were and not hurt. Thanks though. If you go back and read I mentioned that there were more insults being tagged onto comments than actual meritful comments. Hence IMO the governement closing shop and taking there ball home. Too many loud voices repeating themselves.


I really don't know where I stand with this. One thing I do know is that name calling and throwing darts at each other does not help.

Were all here on this forum as we all love the out of doors and this just causes fractures amongst us all.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by FQ2

I'm fine. My feeling were and not hurt. Thanks though. If you go back and read I mentioned that there were more insults being tagged onto comments than actual meritful comments. Hence IMO the governement closing shop and taking there ball home. Too many loud voices repeating themselves.


I really don't know where I stand with this. One thing I do know is that name calling and throwing darts at each other does not help.

Were all here on this forum as we all love the out of doors and this just causes fractures amongst us all.

You complain about name calling and then you start doing the exact same thing?
Maybe try not to do the same thing and it will spread instead of escalate things.

I do have one question what does your AO online be name mean?

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Jim Blake

No I don't believe that is a stand alone solution.

Nor do I believe a Park is a stand alone solution. Why spend 40 million for pomp and ceremony to make it into a park just so they can regulate and enforce? That can be done much less expensively. After the 40 million is spent how much will the yearly costs of operating this park be? Besides regulation, enforcement what is the ulterior motive of this creation. Are we going to see golf courses, ski hills, resorts, marinas, dude ranches, tourist trinket and restaurant strip malls for investors and wealthy tourists? That is the real concern and has not been addressed openly by the gov't. Where is the future blueprint for this park. We're all in the dark here.

The local population is afraid they will be displaced and out bidded from recreating in their back yard by the wealthy few and rightfully so. The majority of ordinary Albertans who uses this area also want to see it cleaned up and ridded of the dolts presently abusing it. Gov't should have started doing that 30 years ago, there would be no need to make it into a park as an excuse to justify regulation and enforcement. Turning it into a park when it is not necessary reeks of an ulterior motivated land grab. Just my opinion.

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Nor do I believe a Park is a stand alone solution. Why spend 40 million for pomp and ceremony to make it into a park just so they can regulate and enforce? That can be done much less expensively. After the 40 million is spent how much will the yearly costs of operating this park be? Besides regulation, enforcement what is the ulterior motive of this creation. Are we going to see golf courses, ski hills, resorts, marinas, dude ranches, tourist trinket and restaurant strip malls for investors and wealthy tourists? That is the real concern and has not been addressed openly by the gov't. Where is the future blueprint for this park. We're all in the dark here.

The local population is afraid they will be displaced and out bidded from recreating in their back yard by the wealthy few and rightfully so. The majority of ordinary Albertans who uses this area also want to see it cleaned up and ridded of the dolts presently abusing it. Gov't should have started doing that 30 years ago, there would be no need to make it into a park as an excuse to justify regulation and enforcement. Turning it into a park when it is not necessary reeks of an ulterior motivated land grab. Just my opinion.

Bingo! The private playground for the real estate holders at the Casltle Mountian Ski Resort. Am I correct Shannon? The Bighorn will be the same.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Nor do I believe a Park is a stand alone solution. Why spend 40 million for pomp and ceremony to make it into a park just so they can regulate and enforce? That can be done much less expensively. After the 40 million is spent how much will the yearly costs of operating this park be? Besides regulation, enforcement what is the ulterior motive of this creation. Are we going to see golf courses, ski hills, resorts, marinas, dude ranches, tourist trinket and restaurant strip malls for investors and wealthy tourists? That is the real concern and has not been addressed openly by the gov't. Where is the future blueprint for this park. We're all in the dark here.

The local population is afraid they will be displaced and out bidded from recreating in their back yard by the wealthy few and rightfully so. The majority of ordinary Albertans who uses this area also want to see it cleaned up and ridded of the dolts presently abusing it. Gov't should have started doing that 30 years ago, there would be no need to make it into a park as an excuse to justify regulation and enforcement. Turning it into a park when it is not necessary reeks of an ulterior motivated land grab. Just my opinion.

These are my thoughts exactly.
If anyone did the survey on line they would realize how they were fishing as to how much and what development to do in the Bighorn.
They want to use these parks as tourist attractions and that will cost us access to the wild places we love.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Nor do I believe a Park is a stand alone solution. Why spend 40 million for pomp and ceremony to make it into a park just so they can regulate and enforce? That can be done much less expensively. After the 40 million is spent how much will the yearly costs of operating this park be? Besides regulation, enforcement what is the ulterior motive of this creation. Are we going to see golf courses, ski hills, resorts, marinas, dude ranches, tourist trinket and restaurant strip malls for investors and wealthy tourists? That is the real concern and has not been addressed openly by the gov't. Where is the future blueprint for this park. We're all in the dark here.

The local population is afraid they will be displaced and out bidded from recreating in their back yard by the wealthy few and rightfully so. The majority of ordinary Albertans who uses this area also want to see it cleaned up and ridded of the dolts presently abusing it. Gov't should have started doing that 30 years ago, there would be no need to make it into a park as an excuse to justify regulation and enforcement. Turning it into a park when it is not necessary reeks of an ulterior motivated land grab. Just my opinion.

Thank you Bushrat

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

"not a specific party"

you're joking right?

how many coffee shop/legislature meetings did these "bureaucrats" have with Y2Y prior to the NDP being in power?

let alone the environment minister and premier themselves?

do tell

If you had been following along you would know this has been in the works for years.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by MrDave

Where have I been? Screaming in the wilderness I grew up in. Where I dealt with people driving out to the sticks because there was no enforcement, since the early 70's. I've watched the unregulated crowd doing its thing, and seen what that foot print is.

So $40 million needs to be spent turning the area into parks in order for some much needed enforcement to happen? Seems to be an odd way of thinking, or is that your way of thinking? Or will it be the same as before with no enforcement, but now a park and 40 million spent? What is that going to stop?
But don't worry Dave, I'm sure the gooberment will get it right

[Cervidae]

If you want a glimps of the future for what this park experience they are driving towards this is it.;
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...lake-1.5004430

You might not be able to random camp in the areas anymore, but at least you can book your comfort yurt in February if you get your reservation made early.

The ohv crowd is low hanging fruit for them to target as destroying these areas, the next target will be the shooting groups (we have all see the disgusting mess left behind after degenerates leave their “targets” and garbage behind). Then random camping in “non-approved” sites. (Read non-pay sited). You are foolish if you believe this plan is about ensuring you are able to enjoy these areas in the future. It used to be so what rare to see folks from south of Calgary out west of rocky, but since castle became restricted there are more folks concentrated into this area now.
I would love to see better enforcement of the existing rules, funded by heavy fines for those that make this area their personal dump.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

If you had been following along you would know this has been in the works for years.

yes i know. y2y has been in cahoots with the NDP for about 4 years now. that's the point. not sure if i need to explain it to you another way. maybe a picture.

thanks for the endorsement.

[Trap30]

I have been going to the Bighorn campground nigh on 25 years, It has had very little enforcement because the majority of users are western people and it has been self-policed by the "code of the west". I realize that that Ya Ha Tinda is Federal land and is not included in this proposal but Eagle Lake is which is not very far away. To my knowledge Friends of the Eastern Slopes have been the caretakers of both the provincial and Federal area's for as long as I can remember. I think they have done an excellent job being stewards of this land with the resources they have mustered through donations from the actual users and companies operating in the area. I know this from attending several of there fundraising events, they are funded buy industry, users and a lot of sweat equity by volunteers.
The area is off limits to Atv's and predominately equine use, the past few years there has been an increase of non-horse users and that has caused some altercations with non equine people who do not respect the equine culture but not a huge deal.
My biggest fear for this area is that if the Park is introduced at Eagle Lake campground, the Federal government will close access to Bighorn and we will be forced to use the Provincial with all of the rules and fees that come with provincial area's. I will not attend another Provincial park with my horses, too many rules and too high of cost. I can't do what I want to do in a Provincial Park so I wont go. This is not to say the area will not be used, as I'm sure it will, just not by people like me. I have the upmost respect for the YaHaTinda area and I enjoy my freedom to be there without being told where I can go, how much to pay and all of the rest of the "rules".

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Jim Blake

Is it just enforcement people want? I didn't know such a Poll had been done. Please post with the Poll results.

What is a "perceived" abuse. Are you saying there are no issues in the West Country?

We know the handling of the procedures to date has been horrible.

I have very little knowledge of the Castle plan, what was promised, not delivered, changed etc..

We are dealing in this thread about the BIGHORN Plan.

Let's stick to the end result which is the proposed BIGHORN plan.

It's amazing how misinformation can affect people. My neighbors son works in Forestry (logging) and he came home to tell his Dad that the Govt. was going to shut down all the logging in the West Country and he would be out of a job. Do you think that is true?

It’s too bad some of you are so ill informed yet all of a sudden, you jump on the band wagon.

Y2Y is laughing right now, they are achieving huge goals right before our eyes. They were pushing the CPC for years. Now they found a government that will push forward agendas that a lot of us never thought would happen.

I find it so sad that most of these recent SJW’s have jumped on board with the Bighorn plan yet not knowing a single thing about what happened recently in the Castle, Livingstone, Porcupine hills...

I don’t know why, but I will say it again, probably for the 1000’th time. Do more research, then dig some more. Some of you guys who showed up to one government information session and now think you are a genius on this issue, you’re not. Period.

Dig deeper, there is more to this than what you are being fed by the NDP.

We all fully understand that a free for all on the eastern slopes is NOT acceptable. If whatever government that was in power put forward the proper enforcement in place we would not need these parks. Period.

[Spruster]

Originally Posted by RandyBoBandy

I have no dog in this fight but...just ban all ATV's

some walk and live amongst us !!!! I have asked for an explanation . none given . An attitude to support anti real life hunting not sure ? pretty strong statement ya think ! maybe his hunting world is computer only 24-7. all he know's is hockey , on a outdoorsmen forum , go figure