Bill E-111 AR15 Reclassification

[Newview01]

Well no luck today folks.

The Government thanks these petitioners for their representations.
The Government believes in balanced, effective measures with respect to firearms that prioritize public safety while ensuring that law-abiding firearms owners are treated fairly under the law. The Government has committed to getting handguns and assault weapons off our streets and to strengthening controls on such weapons.
The Government is committed to putting decision-making authority about weapons classification back into the hands of police, not politicians. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police is responsible for the technical determination of the classification of firearms in accordance with the criteria stipulated by Parliament in the Criminal Code.
The Criminal Code Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited, Restricted or Non-Restricted list the Armalite Rifle (AR)-15 as a named variant of the restricted M-16 rifle. The AR-15 is restricted because of its lineage to the military-issued M-16 assault rifle.
The Government has no intention of using section 117.15 of the Criminal Code to change the classification of the AR-15.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/eP...00292_PS_E.pdf

[elkhunter11]

The AR-15 is restricted because of its lineage to the military-issued M-16 assault rifle.

And that is why our classification system is so stupid. The AR-15 is classified restricted because of it's history, not because it presents any more threat to the public than any other semi auto 223 rifle. That is what happens when the government puts clueless people in charge of these things.

[IronNoggin]

"The Government is committed to putting decision-making authority about weapons classification back into the hands of police, not politicians."

LOTworse than simply No Luck here...

And so it begins...
Nog

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And that is why our classification system is so stupid. The AR-15 is classified restricted because of it's history, not because it presents any more threat to the public than any other semi auto 223 rifle. That is what happens when the government puts clueless people in charge of these things.

That's a tough one. I would say the RCMP has qualified people working on the classification of firearms. More qualified than politicians. I think the big question is, why is the RCMP working to take away freedoms from people? I mean really, Canada is a peaceful country, we are not violent, we have no gun crime, an AR-15 has never been used in a mass shooting.. I could go on and on. So why is this happening?

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

"The Government is committed to putting decision-making authority about weapons classification back into the hands of police, not politicians."

LOT worse than simply No Luck here...

And so it begins...
Nog

In addition to what I just said, the police should not be doing this, even though they should be firearms experts. What is the difference between weapons classification and law making? One stems from the other... Should the police be making the laws?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Newview01

That's a tough one. I would say the RCMP has qualified people working on the classification of firearms. More qualified than politicians. I think the big question is, why is the RCMP working to take away freedoms from people? I mean really, Canada is a peaceful country, we are not violent, we have no gun crime, an AR-15 has never been used in a mass shooting.. I could go on and on. So why is this happening?

It's very simple, the RCMP would prefer that Canadians were not armed, and they are starting with restricting or banning the evil looking military style firearms, before they move on to more traditional types of firearms. If they went after all firearms at one time, there would be a large public outcry, so they are targeting a few at a time. It will take a while, but they eventually will succeed in disarming all law abiding firearms owners.

[hilt134]

This is really a stupid point of veiw. You can buy a car that was made possible by one of the worst men ever. You can buy surplus rifles that may actually of been used in war. You can buy hand gun that where based of a design to kill a horse at 100yds (colt walker but you cant buy a perfectly legal AR because its dad or uncle was a m16? Thats just discrimitation. Im not the biggest fan of the gun myself, I have a prefrence to cowboy guns. but the way the was decided just doesnt bode well as a gun owner. If an argument this lousy is what it takes to make somthing illegal i think we need to change that process.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's very simple, the RCMP would prefer that Canadians were not armed, and they are starting with restricting or banning the evil looking military style firearms, before they move on to more traditional types of firearms. If they went after all firearms at one time, there would be a large public outcry, so they are targeting a few at a time. It will take a while, but they eventually will succeed in disarming all law abiding firearms owners.

I know you are right, and I know the answers. I ask them because everyone else should know. UN Agenda 21 and the Arms Trade Treaty has a lot to do with this as well. The powers that be don't want the citizens to have the ability to fight back. It may sound conspiratorial, because it is.

[Kevlak]

You could have millions of signatures, even myself signed it, but a liberal hover would never allow reclassification of the ar, considering majority of them would rather the population have no guns at all, very unfortunate.

Kevin

[rugatika]

This is one area where I think Harper and the Cons were no friends to the gun community. They should have gotten rid of the whole mess and put in some common sense gun laws acting on the advice of actual gun owners and advocates instead of whack job gun haters. BUT, like most "conservative" governments they were afraid of taking any blowback from the CBC et al and acted like a bunch of female dogs.

Pretty sure the poor guys from the CPC that call me for donations are getting sick of hearing this from me when I tell them no more money.

If there is one thing conservative governments need to come to grips with, is that they are not going to make friends with their enemies by appeasing them. When we have the power act like it and do what Libs do when they have the reins. Trash and burn any law, gov't agency or bureaucrat that has ever been associated with the Libs.

(At least they managed to get rid of the registry...I'll give them props for that)

[guywiththemule]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's very simple, the RCMP would prefer that Canadians were not armed, and they are starting with restricting or banning the evil looking military style firearms, before they move on to more traditional types of firearms. If they went after all firearms at one time, there would be a large public outcry, so they are targeting a few at a time. It will take a while, but they eventually will succeed in disarming all law abiding firearms owners.

Bingo !! As per "Agenda of RCMP"!!

[coreya3212]

For crying out loud stop yapping about the rcmp. The blame here lies with the liberal party. Blame them and those who voted for them. Start with raab.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

For crying out loud stop yapping about the rcmp. The blame here lies with the liberal party. Blame them and those who voted for them. Start with raab.

Yes the Liberals returned total control of the classification system to the RCMP, but it was the RCMP that classified the AR-15 as restricted in the first place. Unless the government changes in a future election, and the RCMP is entirely removed from having any influence over the classification system, the AR-15 will either remain restricted, or it will be banned.

[jzz30tt]

This is why the separation of powers is so critical. The Legislative, Executive, and Judicial all have a role to play but when there is crossover and over-reach, such as the Legislative (Majority Government) branch abdicating it's responsibility to the Executive branch (Police Forces), it is the precise recipe for corruption.

This becomes the fox guarding the hen-house as it were in terms of corruption of the duty of serving the people.

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I know you are right, and I know the answers. I ask them because everyone else should know. UN Agenda 21 and the Arms Trade Treaty has a lot to do with this as well. The powers that be don't want the citizens to have the ability to fight back. It may sound conspiratorial, because it is.

I used to dismiss the Agenda 21 theory - not so much anymore - it's the only thing that seems to make sense in this stupidity - even though it's the ultimate stupid.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

For crying out loud stop yapping about the rcmp. The blame here lies with the liberal party. Blame them and those who voted for them. Start with raab.

The blame lies with those who classified the AR as restricted. And those who classify firearms at all. IMO there should only be one class of firearms.

[hilt134]

When i posted my comment yesterday i did not think to deeply about what could of happend if the bill had been passed and the ar-15 was made non restricted. Upon further thought im wondering if its not such a terrible thing that it wasnt passed. I mean the ar is pretty hated by non gun people and gun people arent exactly their favorite people. While it sucks that we wont get the gun its also nice that the media and anti gun folks wont be able to use this agianst us. I mean i dont think its a far cry to say that the potential backlash could cause more retrictions due to whats going in the states and what not. I dont think Canadas ready for the ar yet

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by hilt134

When i posted my comment yesterday i did not think to deeply about what could of happend if the bill had been passed and the ar-15 was made non restricted. Upon further thought im wondering if its not such a terrible thing that it wasnt passed. I mean the ar is pretty hated by non gun people and gun people arent exactly their favorite people. While it sucks that we wont get the gun its also nice that the media and anti gun folks wont be able to use this agianst us. I mean i dont think its a far cry to say that the potential backlash could cause more retrictions due to whats going in the states and what not. I dont think Canadas ready for the ar yet

With that attitude you can say goodbye to your single shot 22.

If you give an inch, they will take a mile. If you don't believe that, you are delusional.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Newview01

With that attitude you can say goodbye to your single shot 22.

If you give an inch, they will take a mile. If you don't believe that, you are delusional.

Exactly, every victory the anti firearms groups win, gives them more incentive to carry on their crusade to disarm all Canadians.

[catnthehat]

The AR was not always restricted and I don't remember any great problems with it then .
However, as was stated , any ban on a particular gun that goes unchallenged will affect all the others as we eventually.
I can't imagine the hunting World if the semi auto shotgun was banned ,but there are counties that have done just that!
Cat

[Newview01]

Does anyone know if an AR-15 has ever been used in the commission of a crime in Canada?

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Does anyone know if an AR-15 has ever been used in the commission of a crime in Canada?

Your question could be double edged, what a tool is used for is determined by the person using it.


The powers to be don’t want us to own firearms, so I do agree with your posts on this thread not this one.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Yes the Liberals returned total control of the classification system to the RCMP, but it was the RCMP that classified the AR-15 as restricted in the first place. Unless the government changes in a future election, and the RCMP is entirely removed from having any influence over the classification system, the AR-15 will either remain restricted, or it will be banned.

NOPE.

When the AR15 was classified as per the "Order's in Council" the firearm lab and CFP was under the "Department of Justice." The RCMP had nothing to do with the changes of 1995.

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Does anyone know if an AR-15 has ever been used in the commission of a crime in Canada?

Its involved in lots of crimes.
Mostly having to do with storage, transportation, and target shooting outside of an approved range.
I've even heard of criminals using it to save baby deer by shooting wolves and coyotes with it.

(We're over run with gun crime right now. The other day I saw a criminal shooting gophers with a 10-22 with a 25 round mag.)

[catnthehat]

You can thank Allan Rock and Jean Cretian for that.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

NOPE.

When the AR15 was classified as per the "Order's in Council" the firearm lab and CFP was under the "Department of Justice." The RCMP had nothing to do with the changes of 1995.

Just like with most of the CFOs today, where did the people come from that decided which makes and models of firearms were to be classified as restricted or as prohibited? How many of the people actually changed when the lab was officially moved from one jurisdiction to another?

Does anyone know if an AR-15 has ever been used in the commission of a crime in Canada?

The incident that led to many of of gun control laws involved the use of a Ruger mini 14, yet the mini 14 was not classed as restricted. Go figure.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Just like with most of the CFOs today, where did the people come from that decided which makes and models of firearms were to be classified as restricted or as prohibited?

The lab was involved, but none of the lab employees were RCMP member or former police officers. When the DOJ was no more, they put all forensic Labs under the umbrella of the RCMP as the RCMP was their biggest customer for services. The former DOJ employees (Murray Smith and co) became civilian RCMP Members as a result. If you want to then consider them RCMP... OK... but at no time were they sworn police officers.

So no, in 1995 the RCMP Police Officers were not deciding classification. And guess what, RCMP Police Officers are still not determining classification today.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

The lab was involved, but none of the lab employees were RCMP member or former police officers. When the DOJ was no more, they put all forensic Labs under the umbrella of the RCMP as the RCMP was their biggest customer for services. The former DOJ employees (Murray Smith and co) became civilian RCMP Members as a result. If you want to then consider them RCMP... OK... but at no time were they sworn police officers.

So no, in 1995 the RCMP Police Officers were not deciding classification. And guess what, RCMP Police Officers are still not determining classification today.

Whether sworn RCMP officers or civilian RCMP employees, they are still RCMP. And the people that decided those classifications, and the classifications since, are now, or at one time were RCMP members, civilian, or otherwise. Perhaps they weren't working for the RCMP in 1995, but those same people became RCMP, and their classifications still stand.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Whether sworn RCMP officers or civilian RCMP employees, they are still RCMP. And the people that decided those classifications, and the classifications since, are now, or at one time were RCMP members, civilian, or otherwise. Perhaps they weren't working for the RCMP in 1995, but those same people became RCMP, and their classifications still stand.

So, the RCMP is responsible for the Lab/classification decisions even prior to them being under the RCMP umbrella?

Wow, ok!

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by rugatika

This is one area where I think Harper and the Cons were no friends to the gun community. They should have gotten rid of the whole mess and put in some common sense gun laws acting on the advice of actual gun owners and advocates instead of whack job gun haters. BUT, like most "conservative" governments they were afraid of taking any blowback from the CBC et al and acted like a bunch of female dogs.

Pretty sure the poor guys from the CPC that call me for donations are getting sick of hearing this from me when I tell them no more money.

If there is one thing conservative governments need to come to grips with, is that they are not going to make friends with their enemies by appeasing them. When we have the power act like it and do what Libs do when they have the reins. Trash and burn any law, gov't agency or bureaucrat that has ever been associated with the Libs.

(At least they managed to get rid of the registry...I'll give them props for that)

I could have written this. I also noticed no replies to my emails. It's almost like I sent them to Hillary.