Employer making someone work for free?

[WhiteTailAB]

So I'm a 3rd party at a fab shop in AB, where the foreman makes guys work for free or else they are fired.

Example: Welders get repairs, he makes them fix it on their own time or they can hop in their truck and leave. Another example, making a guy work the whole day for free cutting apart spools or he has to hop in his truck and find a new job.


Is this even legal? I know some of the guys who have worked for free are asians who don't speak english well... so right there they're being taken advantage of.


Does anyone on AO have an answer? CLAC shop.

[AndrewM]

Definitely not legal and definitely shady. If I were them, I would be documenting all the free hours and I have a feeling they will get paid for it all via the Labour Board.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Definitely not legal and definitely shady. If I were them, I would be documenting all the free hours and I have a feeling they will get paid for it all via the Labour Board.

Yeah I thought it was pretty greasy too. I guess when jobs are little to none it's easy to be scared into thinking you're gonna lose your job. Since I am a 3rd party contractor I am not going intervene directly but I'll pass it along.

[AndrewM]

Could there be an agreement where they are making up for extra holidays or something like that? Or it is for sure they just aren't being paid?

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Could there be an agreement where they are making up for extra holidays or something like that? Or it is for sure they just aren't being paid?

Nope definitely not any extra days off or anything like that. I've heard of guys coming in early, staying late, all for free. There are some spools that need to be cut apart soon so I will hear more but so far from what I have heard is they have been made to work a day or 2 free to keep their jobs.

[Dewey Cox]

If its that bad, they should quit.
Since they haven't, I guess it's not that bad.

[Ken07AOVette]

Forcing to work without reimbursement is contrary to labor standards and should be a slam dunk with the Labor board if the time can be proven.
Trouble is if he thinks he is above the law and thinks he can run slaves there is likely zero chance that he would tell the truth in court anyway.
Get proof.

[ghfalls]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

Yeah I thought it was pretty greasy too. I guess when jobs are little to none it's easy to be scared into thinking you're gonna lose your job. Since I am a 3rd party contractor I am not going intervene directly but I'll pass it along.

If you’re a contractor, and you’re making mistakes you should be fixing them on your own time. Not sure if the Asian guys are though.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by ghfalls

If you’re a contractor, and you’re making mistakes you should be fixing them on your own time. Not sure if the Asian guys are though.

None of these guys are contractors. As for myself this isn't about me, the customer hired our company to be here so I don't work for the company the foreman does if that makes sense.


I'll have to ask around and see what other people know about making guys work for free. I'm fairly certain if OH&S showed up here this shop would close lol.

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by ghfalls

If you’re a contractor, and you’re making mistakes you should be fixing them on your own time. Not sure if the Asian guys are though.

yep I agree if you are a contractor you need to know how to do your job

[SuperCub]

delete

[FishHunterPro]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Definitely not legal and definitely shady. If I were them, I would be documenting all the free hours and I have a feeling they will get paid for it all via the Labour Board.

Your right but they better do it sooner than later because you can only get 6 months back paid.

[sweld]

Any place I’ve ever worked you got paid to fix your repairs or screw ups. But I would consider fixing my own repairs or screw ups but not anyone else’s.


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[JWCalgary]

Need to go knocking on the unions door to resolve it. Fight the fight to correct it. That's all that can be done. Run that foreman outta there!

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[260 Rem]

I thought working for no pay was normal. At least that is the way it is for teachers. Supervision during lunch hours. Noon/after school/weekend sports, academic clubs....

[hal53]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I thought working for no pay was normal. At least that is the way it is for teachers. Supervision during lunch hours. Noon/after school/weekend sports, academic clubs....

They're paid by the hour?

[roper1]

Originally Posted by hal53

They're paid by the hour?

I think he means the paid PD days they don't attend, unless they're in Banff. Or the whole class spent watching videos while he sleeps at his desk. Or the massive amount of paid sick days, to be used up skiing as much as possible....

[bloopbloob]

I've worked jobs where CLAC membership was required. Not much good to say about them, and I'll leave it at that.

As far as free work, no they can't make you. That said, I've worked jobs with a two strike policy. Fail 2 x-rays and you are skidded. It's in the contract. No more job. So maybe it's (an illegal) way to let guys keep their jobs... Not defending anything, just saying some of the things I've seen. I'd rather work for free and fix something I screwed up, on my own time, rather than lose my job.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

I've worked jobs where CLAC membership was required. Not much good to say about them, and I'll leave it at that.

As far as free work, no they can't make you. That said, I've worked jobs with a two strike policy. Fail 2 x-rays and you are skidded. It's in the contract. No more job. So maybe it's (an illegal) way to let guys keep their jobs... Not defending anything, just saying some of the things I've seen. I'd rather work for free and fix something I screwed up, on my own time, rather than lose my job.

Yeah these guys might just want to cling to their jobs and suck it up. I don't know, which is why I made the thread cause I always figured no one could make you work for free (which I've had confirmed here thanks to AO)

TransCanada just got a ton of work so if any welders are reading go that way.

[260 Rem]

I feel the love for teachers.... can’t give the current specifics regarding collective agreements but they are probably not too different from the good old days....Where teachers were paid based on instructional hours plus additional “assigned time” which essentially fell far short of the number of hours devoted to instruction related activities. There was no pay for extra-curricular, “clubs”, open houses, parent-teacher interviews, graduation activities...etc, etc. Teachers were essentially paid by the day and have never been paid for any holidays at Xmas, Easter, summer. Not paid for coming back to work a week before school starts in Sept. Paid days were 200 with nothing beyond that. Miss a day for exceptions not covered by agreement and they are docked 1/200th of their annual salary.
Teachers cannot collect EI during summer months because they choose to take their 10 month seasonal salary over 12 months.
Don’t know of any current data but in my day, most teachers worked in excess of 50 hrs a week.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I thought working for no pay was normal. At least that is the way it is for teachers. Supervision during lunch hours. Noon/after school/weekend sports, academic clubs....

Teachers get like 8 weeks PAID vacation in the summer. They're not hurting for money that's for sure

[trophybook]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

So I'm a 3rd party at a fab shop in AB, where the foreman makes guys work for free or else they are fired.

Example: Welders get repairs, he makes them fix it on their own time or they can hop in their truck and leave. Another example, making a guy work the whole day for free cutting apart spools or he has to hop in his truck and find a new job.


Is this even legal? I know some of the guys who have worked for free are asians who don't speak english well... so right there they're being taken advantage of.


Does anyone on AO have an answer? CLAC shop.

I personally would ignore it. As a former clac member and steward it will fall on deaf ears. Clac is for the employer hence the clause written into every clac agreement states that if you strike your fired.

[sweld]

If it’s employees it could be a fine line. But contractors, if you don’t like it go else where


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[Rig-Rat]

I'm a bit confused, if they aren't getting paid, what's the harm in being "fired"? Can't loose income as your saying there isn't income to loose. Of course it's not legal to make people work for nothing. I don't know how you fellas operate but I'm not getting paid I'm out of there. Not into donating my time while buddy makes profit. Now if they messed up, and there was an agreement where they had to fix screw ups on own time, maybe sure but unless happens alot to said employee I would think should be paid for that also.

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[jstubbs]

^ Sounds to me like the harm is they are getting paid, just not for all the work they do, so by quitting or getting fired they're going from working lets say 60 hours but only getting paid 45 of those to working 0 and getting paid for zero. Neither is ideal but like others have posted if you need the income to survive and finding another job isn't easy, the former is more ideal.

This is a big issue for people on varying types of work visas (or similar) who need the employment to stay in Canada legally. Since OP stated some don't speak English, that could be the case.

[Immigrant]

You mention Asians that don’t speak english well. Are they foreign workers, here on work permits? Did the employer sponsor them? He may be threatening to fire them and send them “back home” if they don’t do as he says. They will probably do anything to stay in the country, they are too scared to say something and don’t know their rights.
The above is pure speculation. I comment without having all the facts

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...ed-rights.html

Edit: jstubbs beat me to it

[WhiteTailAB]

Not contractors, employees. Not on salary. Not banking hours/vacation. Paid hourly. "Give me a days work for free or you're gone" is how it goes.


To answer the newest question, they're not TFWs it IS possible for non TFWs to speak poor english and not know their worker's rights.

Every welder here has gotten repairs (lol) it seems only when certain welders who get a few in a row get the "work for free" talk because there are some english speaking welders that seem to get a free pass.

[AndrewM]

So are they working for free to fix the mistakes they made? Or free work to compensate for the mistakes they made?

[Jimm]

If it doesn’t effect you I would suggest you mind your own business before you get your company and you kicked out of the shop. Best way for an abused employee to get favor with the boss is to turn in a sub that’s out of line

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by Jimm

If it doesn’t effect you I would suggest you mind your own business before you get your company and you kicked out of the shop. Best way for an abused employee to get favor with the boss is to turn in a sub that’s out of line

Exactly. There is no use for uppity slaves!